General Questions and Information Thread

Discussion in 'General Sega Discussion' started by Andlabs, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    IBM PC: CGA, CGA on VGA, Tandy, EGA, VGA


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    This is secretly wonderful, but yeah, long-term stuff I think. Maybe decades.
     
  2. doc eggfan

    doc eggfan

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  3. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    I know I'm not in my element here, but selling a game 3500 euros is completely ridiculous.
    I can understand rare retro games fetching a few hundred dollars at best, but anything above that is just scummy. There's no way this guy spent so much money to get his hands on the game.
    But hey, at least shipping is free lol.
     
  4. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    OH. SHIT.

    It's that game.

    FUCK.
     
  5. doc eggfan

    doc eggfan

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    Does drx/hidden palace crowd source for published titles? :)
     
  6. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Sega's early-90s European (or at least British) font of choice was Futura Display

    [​IMG]

    I was going to use this in a project but I gave up on the plan before it had even started.


    Fun fact: Futura is a late 1920s German invention, but the Nazis initially repressed its use in favour of more "traditional" typeface, Fraktur. As the war progressed, they adopted Futura because it was clean and nice and made the regime look more modern. And then everyone used Futura for everything ever. But not this variant!
     
  7. biggestsonicfan

    biggestsonicfan

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    Because this is such a small find, I decided it did not deserve it's own thread.

    Today I'll be talking about something that's been bugging me in Dynamite Cop. I will be using the "dynmcopb" romset for this, so it's the Model2b variant.

    When booting up the game, you are greeted directly to the title screen:
    [​IMG]

    In the game assignments menu, there is no option to change the region, as is common in some of the Model2 games:
    [​IMG]

    In the game, there is a variable at 0x13E90 that gets initialized to "2", and moved to a location in memory that is checked frequently, including in the Game Assignments menu. Let's change that initialization to "0".

    A Japanese warning screen on the USA distributed romset. Not unusual, but it is when it's not selectable via any options!
    [​IMG]

    The Dynamite Deka title screen by changing a 0 to a 2!
    [​IMG]

    Let's check that game assignments menu!

    [​IMG]

    BAM! "HP PASSWORD" now appears! Sadly, it's not selectable (yet), but I need to research this further.

    The passwords can be manipulated in memory, changing their value:
    [​IMG]

    The passwords seemingly do nothing, and their values are initialized to "0" or "NO PASSWORD" when exiting the test menu. It's unlikely they were ever fully implemented but I need to look into it further.

    Here is the list of all the passwords:
    • NO PASSWORD
    • DEKA2
    • DIE-HARD
    • MODEL2
    • MAGURO
    • SEGATA346
    • BARMUDA
    • GOLDENAXE
    • H-O-DEAD
    • SKI-CHAMP
    • D-ADDER
    • C-LEG
    • SEGA-AM1
    • S-F-P-D
    • 100YEN
    • HANEDA
    • KATANA
    • NAOMI
    • KOMUSUME
    • PAPA
    • ORENOBUKI
    • SUGOINE
    • ARIGATOU

    As a side note, that value set to "2" is sometimes checked for "1" as well. If you change it to "1" you get this unused(?) warning screen:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
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  8. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
  9. biggestsonicfan

    biggestsonicfan

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    I'll get to it shortly, but I just booted up the Dynamite Deka 2 ROMs, and they have the HP PASSWORD listed in the game assignments by default.:flunked: Inaccessible, but the passwords themselves are hidden content I guess.

    The Model2C version of Dynamite Cop also boots into that warning screen, so I guess that's the comparison.

    EDIT:DONE! :3
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  10. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    So in terms of "The Game Awards 2019", Amplitude Studios studios showed off a trailer for Humankind and Total War: Three Kingdoms was nominated for "Best Strategy Game" which it lost to Fire Emblem: Three Houses.

    Thanks, I love it.
     
  11. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    One thing I don't much care for when discussing video game history is the concept of "console generations". These days, the dividing line is clear (assuming you ignore handhelds), but this idea (from Wikipedia) that we're on "generation 8" moving to "generation 9" is a bit wibbly wobbly when you look into it.

    aka there is no clear definition for generations "2" and "3", and if you think there is, you're probably wrong. Anyway here's a terrible photo:

    [​IMG]

    This is from Winter CES 1990. To demonstrate how great their Mega Drive (or Genesis in this case) was, Sega of America had an elaborate booth showcasing the history of video games. In its mind, there had been four evolutions up until that point:

    1) Pong/Atari 2600
    2) Intellivision
    3) NES
    4) Master System

    and 5 was the Genesis. I don't know if there was one running in that above row of five or whether they thought the bazillion other TV screens were sufficient.

    This is "Sega for the 90s: The New Generation" (this one). Now they don't specifically mention that the Genesis marks the the "5th" generation of consoles, but it was considered by Sega as a "new" generation. And the way they've written things at the time, the "old" generation is the 8-bit Master System. There is no mention of Nintendo at all, which may even imply they thought they were two "generations" ahead.


    There's not much in this - within a year Sega of America had attempted to wipe the Master System from existence and spent their days pointing out how the NES sucked, but this does seem to suggest that in the beginning... they weren't even thinking about Nintendo.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  12. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    Well, of course they're going to put their own product ahead of their competition! That's just basic marketing!

    I'm willing to give your idea some credence, but I don't think using a company's marketing as proof is good evidence.
     
  13. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Sometimes I gravitate towards the jobs I know people aren't going to do. Tonight, Sega logos - the ™ symbols are often stripped in Japan because lacks a meaning in that region. Also there's a bazillion minor inconsistencies between games - even Sega couldn't decide exactly how to align the thing.


    There will be many hundreds of these.
     
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  14. Gryson

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    What do we do with sources of dubious authenticity?

    For example, Sega Retro (and a whole bunch of other websites and Youtube videos) says the following about Dynamite Headdy:

    I was immediately skeptical of this. As far as I know, it's never been mentioned in any of the Japanese magazines (including Beep MD, in which Treasure had a 2-page monthly column). I tracked down the source to this little blurb in a magazine called Sega Power from the UK (not sure which issue):

    [​IMG]

    I think this is the only mention of a 32X version of Dynamite Headdy, but if anybody knows more, please say so.

    We all know that there was a lot of shit made up and passed off as truth (or rumor) in old Western gaming magazines, especially when it concerned anything coming out of Japan.

    I mean, I had a look at the January 1995 issue of Sega Power, and it's pretty bad. First off, they apparently forgot to update their page template, because all of the pages are incorrectly marked "January 1994". Oops. In the first few pages, we get gems of reporting such as:

    -"We're reliably informed that the Saturn will be compatible with the 32x."
    -A version of Virtua Fighter was made for the 32X, but AM2 decided for some strange reason not to release it.
    -Alien Soldier is a beat-em-up with 10 levels.

    I'm also skeptical of that 32X Daytona USA, but don't know enough about it.

    I enjoy reading these kinds of magazines for their silly/playful attitude and sillier rumors, but I think we have to take any claims they make with a lot of healthy skepticism, especially when there is absolutely no cross-verification.

    So at what point do we say "This source probably isn't accurate" and remove/discount the claim?
     
  15. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Common practise for "real" journalism is to have two independent sources. I once made a short list of supposedly unreleased games I wasn't sure about - you could add Dynamite Headdy to that list (or present this sort of thing in a different way).


    There was discussion once of having different types of references. There are facts that are difficult to "prove" (I think the example was "Scarred Sun talked to someone who knows things"), so I proposed the idea of having specially marked references that come with the caveat "we're pretty sure this is true but we can't present evidence - just letting you know".

    We could have another one for dubious claims. Because a rumoured 32X port of Dynamite Headdy has been around for a while, and we probably want to acknowledge that this might be a thing, even if we're personally unsure.

    e.g.

    Type 1) "we think this is true, you should believe us"
    Type 2) "this is true, this magazine (or whatever) said so"
    Type 3) "this magazine (or whatever) said this is true but we don't believe them"
     
  16. Xilla

    Xilla

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    Sega Power was the only magazine I've seen reporting a MJ/SEGA collaboration in 1993. They did tend to make alot of stuff up around the release of the Saturn though from what I can remember.

    I think they even mocked up a "screenshot" of Streets of Rage 3, showing a Galsia as a playable character (They just copied and pasted Axel's lifebar onto his and gave him a new name).
     
  17. doc eggfan

    doc eggfan

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    To be fair, lots of magazines were reporting this as well. Whether this has some basis in fact at some point (some small chance this could be true), or was just an educated guess in regards to the purpose of the Saturn cartridge slot (probably a more likely explanation).
     
  18. Gryson

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    Multiple sources are good, but perhaps more importantly: reliable, known, acknowledged sources.

    Take the Michael Jackson example mentioned by Xilla (on p. 12 of the September 1993 issue), specifically as it says that MJ will "produce material exclusively for upcoming Mega CD and Sega coin-op titles." What is the source for this information? Is it Spencer Nielsen, who is briefly quoted? (We know that Nielsen met MJ when Nielsen was composing the Ecco Tides of Time soundtrack.) Is it a deduction based on the AS-1 ride that MJ made (and was reported in Japanese media)? Sega Power is quick to name its sources in other articles. This has the feel of rumor sprinkled with bits of truth (irrespective of how true it turned out to be).

    Generally, these magazines got their info from the following sources:

    1) Sega or 3rd-party publisher promotional departments - this info is easy to identify because it's reported across multiple magazines (with same screenshots, etc.)
    2) Other news sources, including Japanese magazines (we know because they occasionally re-used concept art made by these magazines)
    3) Trade shows
    4) The illusive 'industry insiders' - Sega employees / developers that were at least slightly willing to anonymously pass along info they heard

    The problem is that a lot of magazines were willing to play hard and fast with the facts. After all, there were pretty much no negative repercussions to printing a false rumor - their audience at the time certainly didn't care. So a rumor passed along by an insider could easily snowball into an article. Say part of that rumor turned out to be true - does that mean the rest is true? Not all all. It's still a rumor and should be approached as such.

    So, my point is, I try to only give credence to these magazine articles when their information source is given or can be established. Even then, it doesn't mean the claim is true. I have no doubt there were many confused marketing department people who passed along poor info about what was going on with the hardware in Japan and such. But without a source cited, I think we have to approach this stuff as unverified rumor and treat it accordingly. And, given the wealth of information we now have, we are in a much better position to determine if the rumor had any truth to it.

    Yes, it could be speculation about the cartridge slot or something else. That magazine issue was printed in November 1994, and the final specs of the Saturn had long since been established, officially announced, and published by then. I mean, the Saturn went on sale November 22, 1994. It's really hard to imagine that anybody at Sega was passing along info at that time saying the Saturn would be able to play 32X games. "We're reliably informed" is basically code for "unsubstantiated rumor."
     
  19. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    I'm honestly not sure I'm confident enough to pre-judge publications. I thought for ages that EGM's Quartermann segments were full of garbage, only to find SegaSonic Bros. was a genuine thing.

    What I am mindful of is that multiple magazines were often published in the same building. There's weird things in Mean Machines that were also reported in CVG, likely because there was only a ceiling separating the two teams at EMAP.
     
  20. Gryson

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    We definitely shouldn't be pre-judging publications. As for documenting it, of course everything is important. From the perspective of the historian, however, I think we have to make judgments on the validity of each individual article. This really pertains to how information is summarized on the wiki, which I think is how most people access that information.

    The current default, as I see it, is to accept all published information as truthful unless it is directly contradicted by another source or is shown false in hindsight. I think this is the wrong approach, because it gives validity to questionable rumors.

    Take the example of 32X Daytona USA shown in the page from Sega Power above. It says: "early reports have said that it looks pretty good and plays faithfully to the arcade game." Do we just accept that Sega developed a playable port of Daytona USA for the 32X that has never been released? If so, how is it that Sega Power was the only publication to have received "reports" on a playable version? Did they have some exclusive connection inside AM2 in Japan? It certainly never came up in those countless interviews and features done with AM2 in Beep MD and Saturn Mag about Daytona USA. It was never mentioned by Takayuki Kawagoe, the man who supervised all of Japan's 32X games. I guess we can't disprove that it existed, but it seems like we're going in the wrong direction by assuming it's legit just because that blurb was published.

    Basically, I think it would be good to revise the "default" approach to unverified info like this in a way that is more skeptical. Publications should be cross-checked, and reliability of original sources should be considered.