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General Questions and Information Thread

Discussion in 'General Sega Discussion' started by Andlabs, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    On the Mega Drive side at least, all aftermarket re-releases should now have separate pages from their original releases. So the lists should now be fine.


    But spare a thought for Disney's Aladdin (iam8bit):

    [​IMG]

    This re-release came out in 2020. It had a very brief mention on these boards, but was overshadowed by the more interesting(?) PS4/Xbox One/Switch Aladdin/Lion King collection.

    Typically when you re-release a game, the idea is to pick something that's rare. People charge $1000+ for the original Panorama Cotton, so if you actually want to play it on real hardware, the reprint is an option. Granted, not a very good option, since it still commands three-figure sums on ebay, but whatever, it's your money.

    Aladdin is very common. There's always hundreds of carts on ebay because it's a seminal Mega Drive game that sold millions (I have a copy, do you??). So while yes, you could spend $100 on a brand new cartridge... you could pay a tenth of that for the original. That might not always be the case, but well... it's the case now.

    As far as I can tell, the reprint doesn't add any special content - you don't get that prototype chucked in for free like you would on the newer consoles, it's just the 1993 game in new clothes. Except it probably removes some of the company logos, so you don't get to see Iago get shot.
     
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  2. Xilla

    Xilla

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    I once saw, on a single trip into town, two Mega Drive 2's (one PAL, one NTSC-J) and two copies of Aladdin, again PAL and NTSC-J.

    Combined, they cost less than that.
     
  3. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Most of the ROM dump tables on Sega Retro are based on (I think) No-intro's listings from a few years ago. They're incomplete and out of date - we're mostly fine, but you'll find games like World Championship Soccer II that only list prototypes.

    But many don't have build dates listed, which can be handy when you're looking something up. I've said before how I don't trust Mega Drive ROM header dates on their own, but there's something extra in Mega-CD games which I hadn't spotted until now:

    [​IMG]

    Probably by decree of Sega, many Mega-CD discs have a MMDDYYYY date at the beginning of track 1, prior to the "normal" header. I don't know if this is "build date" or "release date", but it is certainly a "date" that we might need to care about. Not all Mega-CD games have this - US ones are more likely to, but I don't know the full story. It might be more CD-ROM standard gubbins.


    also be fearful that the product code for Cliffhanger here is "T-93075-01", suggesting "revision 01". Is there a "revision 00" like with other titles? God knows.
     
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  4. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    The Mega Drive Mini's version of Tetris - it was hard to tell whether M2 had souped up the infamous 1989 game, or had made something different. Now I've finally bothered to put them side by side...

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    1989 | 2019

    ... and uh, yeah they're different games. Kinda.

    They're both ports of the 1988 System 16 version, so you get a lot of very similar assets (particularly the backgrounds), however M2's 2019 version is a lot closer to the arcade, to the point where it's missing features added to the 1989 home version (though does keep the monkey, which became a "thing" with Sega's iterations of Tetris).

    And it's little things like the music being pitched slightly differently between the two versions - all signs point to it being completely redone (which is probably fair - the 1989 version wasn't technically legal after all). Purists will have to tell me which one plays better - I'm not sure I'd pick either, since they do that thing where at high speeds, the controls become unresponsive.

    I'm tempted to split the page, though I'm not sure into how many bits. Strictly speaking the 1989 version is more of an outlier... but then there's also a System E version that's quite different too. Dunno.
     
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  5. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    It was cute 15 years ago when the Dreamcast started getting new releases on disc - it was ammunition for long-since-past console wars, because clearly if the console's still getting games, it's obviously better. Or something.

    But I stopped paying attention. This is a console designed to crush the competition at 3D graphics, and while you could get away with side-scrolling shooters when the mere concept of publishing new software for old consoles was mindblowing, had they been released in 1999 or 2000, they'd be destroyed by the gaming press, because 2D was old hat (or for handhelds). No it wasn't a sensible position, but it was one the industry held - it doesn't feel right treating the console as a substitute for the Xbox Live Indie store, even if it is still impressive you've managed a print run. Moreso if you've re-created the PAL cases - that's nuts.


    I don't think there's been a push on Sega Retro for Dreamcast aftermarket software since about 2018/2019. Bearing in mind when we started, you were lucky to get two new Dreamcast games a year, look at all the cack we're missing:

    Alice Dreams Tournament
    Alice Sisters
    Andro Dunos
    Andro Dunos 2
    Astro Port Collector
    Big2Small
    Dráscula: The Vampire Strikes Back
    Elansar
    Feet of Fury (I think this one's older but whatevs)
    Flea!
    Inhabitants
    Intrepid Izzy
    Leona's Tricky Adventures
    Metal Canary
    Non Casual Encounter
    Philia: The Sequel to Elansar
    Postal
    Rocketron
    Satazius Next
    Shadow Gangs
    Supercharged Robot Vulkaiser
    Tapeworm Disco Puzzle
    Tough Guy
    Wolflame
    Xenocider
    Yeah Yeah Beebiss

    and I'm not even sure that's all of them. There may be more Dreamcast games released just in the last couple of years than the 32X got in its lifetime - it's pretty good for a console that had is life support cut 22 years ago. Even better when you consider that emulation is essentially not an option - Redream hasn't recognised any aftermarket disc I've tried so far.

    (p.s. not a single aftermarket 32X game exists... which itself is quite surprising)
     
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  6. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
  7. doc eggfan

    doc eggfan

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    I've got a pretty good record of Dreamcast aftermarket games and scans of all the games up to about 2019 when I stopped caring, I just haven't found the time to put them on the wiki.

    I used to do regular posts like this, but haven't done one in a while
    https://www.thedreamcastjunkyard.co.uk/2019/02/the-dreamcast-games-of-2018.html

    Release dates are tricky. I tried to keep a good record of them based on when I received pre-orders in the mail at the time (date on the invoice), but I often had to find a date by scrolling through facebook posts of the publisher/developer for when they announced that they started shipping, and facebook doesn't seem to have a good system for searching back through time. I've been pinged before for not providing a citation link though (just trust me guys ^_^)
     
  8. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    While scavenging archive.org I came across this delightful pair:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    "Rockheaven" and "Rockworld", hacks of Alex Kidd and Wani Wani World, respectively. Put on a cartridge and sold to the ill-informed 20 or 30 years ago. These open up a can of worms, because this isn't a subject the wiki is dealing with very well.


    Sega Retro ought to be covering the history of Sega, but "your" history of Sega is probably very different to those who grew up in the developing world, particularly in places where Sega didn't have official distribution channels. That's why I'm keen to acknowledge unlicensed tat, but because it is mostly tat, I don't want to see it dominating the wiki. Which it would absolutely do if left unchecked.

    As such there's effectively two tiers of software:

    1) "Original" commercial video games, which get dedicated pages (and sub-pages)

    2) Bootlegs and multi-carts, which live either here or here in lists.


    I started doing things this way because it some became apparent that for "tier 2" releases, there's rarely much to say outside of "this exists". We rarely know who published these products, or when or where they came out, and it's even less common to see ROM dumps paired with scans or photos - there could be dozens of unofficial re-releases of Sonic 1 - giving them individual pages would be a nightmare.

    But if you've got a bootleg version of Sonic 1 that actually makes changes, e.g. removing Sega logos or giving Sonic 40 lives, that becomes slightly more interesting... but only slightly. These two hacks are also slightly interesting - they become a sort-of "tier 1.5" in this system - not deserving of full pages, but more notable than just a bog-standard pirate copy.

    My solution earlier today was to just shove them here, but others have taken a different approach, e.g. The Lord of the Rings 2 - a crappy hack, made worse by the fact there were hacks of this hack. But again, not sure I like a full page for what is effectively just a title screen edit - I'm now thinking a "Rings of Power/Bootlegs" sub-page might be a better idea... but is it a better idea?


    Also acutely aware that many public domain hacks make it onto the grey market, and thus would end up being eligible. Sonic Megamix would have to be listed under "Sonic the Hedgehog (16-bit)/Bootlegs" - probably worth doing, but Sega Retro documenting Sonic Retro is all kinds of weird.
     
  9. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Sega Retro:Todo/BootlegTest

    Something like this maybe?
     
  10. Ted909

    Ted909

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  11. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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  12. biggestsonicfan

    biggestsonicfan

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    I find it insanely coincidental a game called "Rings of Power" which was hacked into a "Lord of the Rings" bootleg release only for a Lord of the Rings television series named "Rings of Power" to be released 30 years later lmao.
     
  13. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    [​IMG]
    Apparently this photo was taken 10 days ago. Just a reminder of how impossible this task is to achieve.

    anyway

    Over the years Sega Retro has identified... about 1000 Mega Drive bootlegs. Some of the carts might contain the same ROM data, but even if each game only received one bootleg copy, that's 300-400 at a minimum (and you're still going to have to test them all). But these figures are meaningless anyway as Sega Retro has barely scratched the surface - I know for a fact there are hundreds, if not thousands we're not mentioning, because oh my god there's so bloody many make it stop

    But how's the rest of the internet doing? Here's pretty much every "pirate" listed in GoodGen:

    Just over 200 dumps. This isn't the most super up-to-date list, but uh... they're well off the mark (and again, no context).

    So we're not very good at this, but we're still probably the best.


    Also this list is actually manageable - Sega Retro could document every known bootleg dump relatively quickly, but I'm going to guess there won't be many volunteers. I'm tempted to do Tetris because even the knock-offs sell for four-figure sums on ebay (aka "look at the crap you're paying for"), but yeah. Messy.
     
  14. What would the process be here? Just trying to identify the differences to the standard release?
     
  15. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Yep, with screenshots if there's anything interesting. Sonic the Hedgehog (Mega Drive)/Bootlegs might be a good example.

    (once we figure out what's on the "unknown" cartridges, they can be moved to other tables)


    The other task: disassemble Mega Drive bootleg games in Russia.

    There are countless Russian bootlegs, so much so that a few years ago, I thought it was better to group games by distributor (or I guess, "patterns" since I didn't know who the distributors were). As such these have all been arranged into sets, but if you wanted to search by "game" instead of distributor, you're screwed.

    So here's a better system:
    Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive)/Bootlegs
    All the bootlegs for a specific game in one place. So if you want to know about Sonic 2 bootlegs, here's a dedicated sub-page with everything we know. And yes that includes the Simon Wai proto.

    Still want to sort by distributor? As long as the information is filled in, we'll be able to do that
     
  16. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    "What's the worst that can happen?"



    ...


    [​IMG]


    Tetris/Bootlegs
     
  17. Bobblen

    Bobblen

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    Well done, always enjoy seeing your screens of the later levels of games I'll never get round to playing in a million years!
     
  18. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Next stupid quest: Category:Mega Drive unlicensed multi-carts

    There are thousands of multi-carts for the Mega Drive, so to give 13 of them their own pages doesn't seem sensible or fair. If we made a page for every multi-cart, it would be an unweildly nightmare (and since most aren't dumped, each page would be "XXX EXISTS"). However, like bootlegs, we're not handling "context" very well by just having basic lists. We want something in-between.

    Also some Russian multi-carts are re-releases of Asian ones and ugh. Also the Game Gear exists.

    My solution is similar to bootlegs except I want to get databases involved to store included games. The theory being, you could write a bit of SQL and get every multi-cart that ever included, say, Sonic 1. I'm sure the results would be terrifying.


    But we can't stick thousands of multi-carts on one page - the software would say no. Some carts are grouped, but loads are piling up on this project page, and none of this is clean and I've never had a good solution and I'm hoping something more interesting turns up in the news to distract me from this.
     
  19. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Okay, so for Super Hang-On, in the Arcade version, upon beating Expert it is revealed that you were racing as an old man the entire time. The cameramen fall over in shock.

    In the Mega Drive version, upon beating the Senior (America) course, the old man from the Arcade version shows and throws flowers from a basket on the right side while a woman kisses you on the left (she also does this for the Junior (Asia) course).

    Upon beating the Expert (Europe) course it is revealed that you were racing as a woman (gasp!) and once again the old man from the Arcade version throws flowers from the right side of the screen (the woman on the left, about to kiss you, simply walks all the way back to the left side of the screen.

    Anyway, I've done very little research, but it doesn't seem like the internet knows this despite me knowing it for years. So can someone get a screenshot of the old man from the Arcade version and the woman from the Mega Drive version and put it on the comparison page (Super Hang-On/Comparisons)for the game?

    Also I tried looking for footage of the X68000 version but it was all of the beginner course (Africa) everywhere I looked.