General Project Thread & Feedback

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by steveswede, Apr 29, 2010.

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  1. Gambit

    Gambit

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    There will be more updates before the alpha that show various changes that have been made since the tech demo.
     
  2. Lapper

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    Oh yeah, that's what you're doing... nice, look forward to future stuff. :)

    Also, regarding the website, now I'm using Opera (enough like Chrome for my tastes), I've noticed that the 'check back soon' images are animated, I like that very much.
     
  3. zemulii

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    I'm still unclear on what exactly was decided upon after the talk with the site admins. Assuming it's not a big secret. What are the plans for the "community" side of this project? Surely it's not just the odd show-offy closer look at the finished product of a single piece of art. Personally that's not what I imagined when you said you'd be opening up and showing us how you got to this point *. I've previously asked whether or not some kind of in depth guide on how to achieve the new art style could be put up. And not one response, despite asking many times. That's quite pathetic. I don't want to try and bring things back down after all the sudden positivity around here (and I'm not quite sure where that came from... probably from those not interested in contributing). I just want to be clear on things. I also want my questions to at least be acknowledged if not answered... So where are things headed for the "community"?

    * Just to be clear - what I had imagined was more the stages of development. Just a bunch of random images thrown up somewhere, maybe explaining the ideas behind certain things (which you have been doing a little of). Just quick and messy (a bit of everything) - even showing off the mistakes you made, and how to avoid them. Seems like you're afraid of showing anything less than perfect. I'm not very interested in these needlessly polished looks at a finished piece of artwork. I learn nothing from that. They are beautiful. But rather pointless at the same time.

    But of course, all that assumes that you have any intention of this being much of a community project. If that's not the case, then lets at least be clear on it (in which case though I'll have to wonder why you still have a forum under community projects). Otherwise, to me it seems we're still just being treated like we don't matter.
     
  4. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Zemulii, nothing has changed on the community side from before. We're still actively encouraging people to submit concepts in the thread dedicated to it. MDM has said many, many times now that it's the staff making the game. He's not wrong; we tried getting people to work with on the art style, and people either ignored the guides that we put up (and the feedback staff members gave on pieces) or complained that the bar is too high and didn't contribute at all. S2HD is making good progress on all fronts now, and we're not going to slow down and wait for people to catch up. If you think community project means we're going to put up every decision we make up for a vote here, those days ended a long, long time ago. It didn't work. The 'originalpixelfag' nonsense proved that in full. It's why we have a staff guiding this project, and it's why S2HD has become the beautiful work that you've seen. Rest assured that if we had used all the artwork submitted by community members and even tried to get consensus on it, not only would we be further behind, but the game would be a jumbled mess of clashing art styles as well. No one wants that, so we've moved on to where things are today.

    The visual changelogs are exactly what you're talking about with our development process. I'm not going to apologize for that not fitting into what you had in mind, nor will I for showing off the polished pieces as they've evolved. You think it's pointless for us to show them off; I couldn't disagree more. I believe showing off half completed artwork serves no purpose whatsoever.
     
  5. zemulii

    zemulii

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    <!--quoteo(post=557953:date=Feb 13 2011, 04:51 PM:name=Canned Karma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canned Karma @ Feb 13 2011, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=557953">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Zemulii, nothing has changed on the community side from before. We're still actively encouraging people to submit concepts in the thread dedicated to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Then all you're doing is just asking for ideas. That is NOT a community project. Many commercial games do that. There's no difference.
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->we tried getting people to work with on the art style, and people either ignored the guides that we put up (and the feedback staff members gave on pieces) or complained that the bar is too high and didn't contribute at all. S2HD is making good progress on all fronts now, and we're not going to slow down and wait for people to catch up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Same old...
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you think community project means we're going to put up every decision we make up for a vote here, those days ended a long, long time ago.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sorry, but where did I say that?
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rest assured that if we had used all the artwork submitted by community members and even tried to get consensus on it, not only would we be further behind, but the game would be a jumbled mess of clashing art styles as well. No one wants that, so we've moved on to where things are today.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Duh... I can see that as well as anyone with any taste. And that's great as long as you don't pretend you're working with the community.
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The visual changelogs are exactly what you're talking about with our development process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They're nothing of the sort. I learn nothing from these. And you know what? You STILLLLLLL haven't answered my question about whether we'll be seeing a guide! Graarggh!!! How can you expect anyone to follow the art style when you haven't even set up a guide? And I'll say again - we only had a few bloody pieces of art to go by last year. You honestly expected anyone to really grasp the art style when you kept most of it to yourself? Not only that but you had the nerve to give us silhouettes. How that's supposed to help is anyone's guess.
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not going to apologize for that not fitting into what you had in mind, nor will I for showing off the polished pieces as they've evolved. You think it's pointless for us to show them off; I couldn't disagree more. I believe showing off half completed artwork serves no purpose whatsoever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hah! I never asked you to apologize... You couldn't disagree more? Funny that, because it just shows how little you understand what I'm asking. The only "community" here now are those that just want to "oooh" and "aaah" at all the pretty artwork (basically "fans"). And you're all too happy for that to be the case. You only prove that by giving more attention to those people than those with criticism (not necessarily you in particular, but the staff overall). Just look at what happened when RubyEclipse showed up - the whole team came out to say hello. Some of those members hadn't posted here in ages.

    So what the hell is this project? I'm STILL confused. If you'd just come out and admit that this is in no sense of the word a community project, then I'll understand perfectly and leave you alone :) (seriously, that's all I want). You can't have it both ways.

    If anyone's wondering why this matters to me - it's because I can only feel right about contributing to something, if I actually know what I'm contributing to.

    (my apologies to everyone)
     
  6. dsrb

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    To me it's quite clear from CK's latest post that the staff now want to do all the art internally and limit outside influence to possibly 'borrowing' ideas from others.
     
  7. Lapper

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    Ok, sorry to change the subject, but this is technical.

    Please don't tell me you don't know yet, as you have a playable build already and someone gotta know, will this use the latest DirectX? I ask because I can't download it.
    'A cabinet file necessary for installation can not be trusted.' is what I get each time, and all help is very... rubbish.

    I realised this might be a problem, since I can't run Construct because of it.
     
  8. Andeed

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    <!--quoteo(post=558033:date=Feb 13 2011, 09:51 AM:name=Sonica)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sonica @ Feb 13 2011, 09:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=558033">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, sorry to change the subject, but this is technical.

    Please don't tell me you don't know yet, as you have a playable build already and someone gotta know, will this use the latest DirectX? I ask because I can't download it.
    'A cabinet file necessary for installation can not be trusted.' is what I get each time, and all help is very... rubbish.

    I realised this might be a problem, since I can't run Construct because of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Where are you downloading the runtime from? It should be fine if you get it from the Microsoft website
     
  9. Lapper

    Lapper

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    <!--quoteo(post=558167:date=Feb 13 2011, 07:09 PM:name=Andeed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andeed @ Feb 13 2011, 07:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=558167">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=558033:date=Feb 13 2011, 09:51 AM:name=Sonica)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sonica @ Feb 13 2011, 09:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=558033">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, sorry to change the subject, but this is technical.

    Please don't tell me you don't know yet, as you have a playable build already and someone gotta know, will this use the latest DirectX? I ask because I can't download it.
    'A cabinet file necessary for installation can not be trusted.' is what I get each time, and all help is very... rubbish.

    I realised this might be a problem, since I can't run Construct because of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Where are you downloading the runtime from? It should be fine if you get it from the Microsoft website
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm getting it from the microsoft site. =/
     
  10. Andeed

    Andeed

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    <!--quoteo(post=558182:date=Feb 13 2011, 07:22 PM:name=Sonica)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sonica @ Feb 13 2011, 07:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=558182">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=558167:date=Feb 13 2011, 07:09 PM:name=Andeed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andeed @ Feb 13 2011, 07:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=558167">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=558033:date=Feb 13 2011, 09:51 AM:name=Sonica)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sonica @ Feb 13 2011, 09:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=558033">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, sorry to change the subject, but this is technical.

    Please don't tell me you don't know yet, as you have a playable build already and someone gotta know, will this use the latest DirectX? I ask because I can't download it.
    'A cabinet file necessary for installation can not be trusted.' is what I get each time, and all help is very... rubbish.

    I realised this might be a problem, since I can't run Construct because of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Where are you downloading the runtime from? It should be fine if you get it from the Microsoft website
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm getting it from the microsoft site. =/
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm presuming this is where you're getting it from:
    <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3" target="_blank">http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/deta...6a-9b6652cd92a3</a>

    What is it that's saying the cab can't be trusted? Windows or anti-virus software?
     
  11. Lapper

    Lapper

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    Windows.

    All the help given on the Internet is not great for thickets like me, so I really hope I'll be able to play it.
     
  12. Lapper

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    Yeah I'm double posting, but the website has been updated and no one has mentioned it. The update is two level art updates! I'll let staff post pics/whatever.
     
  13. Aerosol

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    Am I the only one that thinks that the little descriptions are a tad over-dramatic?

    Good stuff, either way.
     
  14. Lapper

    Lapper

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    <!--quoteo(post=558928:date=Feb 15 2011, 04:59 PM:name=AerosolSP)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AerosolSP @ Feb 15 2011, 04:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=558928">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Am I the only one that thinks that the little descriptions are a tad over-dramatic?

    Good stuff, either way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I like them like that. It amuses me.

    Oh, wait... my bridge... unappealing?

    *sigh* I agree, actually.

    Great new shading on the corkscrew, I never noticed it before.
     
  15. Andeed

    Andeed

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    Liking the new updates!

    However...

    1. The APNGs do not animate due to the way the browser shows them, via a js pop-up effect I presume.

    2. Having all the cracks on the bridge logs all be in exactly the same place seems very unnatural. Since the sprites for the logs are circular, would it be possible to have them rotated by a random amount when drawing to the screen, to make them look more realistic?
     
  16. Lapper

    Lapper

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    <!--quoteo(post=558945:date=Feb 15 2011, 05:44 PM:name=Andeed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andeed @ Feb 15 2011, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=558945">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Liking the new updates!

    However...

    1. The APNGs do not animate due to the way the browser shows them, via a js pop-up effect I presume.

    2. Having all the cracks on the bridge logs all be in exactly the same place seems very unnatural. Since the sprites for the logs are circular, would it be possible to have them rotated by a random amount when drawing to the screen, to make them look more realistic?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The problem with this is they have the shadows and highlights perfectly positioned. I'd make 3 or 4 other logs that can be randomly chosen for the bridge, if I was going to add randomness.
     
  17. Andeed

    Andeed

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    <!--quoteo(post=558960:date=Feb 15 2011, 05:57 PM:name=Sonica)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sonica @ Feb 15 2011, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=558960">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=558945:date=Feb 15 2011, 05:44 PM:name=Andeed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andeed @ Feb 15 2011, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=558945">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. Having all the cracks on the bridge logs all be in exactly the same place seems very unnatural. Since the sprites for the logs are circular, would it be possible to have them rotated by a random amount when drawing to the screen, to make them look more realistic?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The problem with this is they have the shadows and highlights perfectly positioned. I'd make 3 or 4 other logs that can be randomly chosen for the bridge, if I was going to add randomness.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The only problem with this is that this adds more graphical data and is extra rendering if there are more objects to be drawn.

    EDIT: Looking at the logs, they don't seem to have particularly specific shadows or highlighting (as if the light source is where the camera is) so a rotation perhaps could be performed.
     
  18. Aerosol

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    It's only a couple more logs...I don't think that'd kill anyone's PC.
     
  19. Andeed

    Andeed

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    <!--quoteo(post=558967:date=Feb 15 2011, 06:08 PM:name=AerosolSP)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AerosolSP @ Feb 15 2011, 06:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=558967">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's only a couple more logs...I don't think that'd kill anyone's PC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    True, but I do recall that the team are trying to squeeze any repetition out that's extra info, for example the animation for the monitors, using one "static" frame rather than a specific set for each type of monitor.
     
  20. Aerosol

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    Then it's likely that what you see is what you get till there's another alpha released and we can let them know how it runs.
     
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