General Project Thread & Feedback

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by steveswede, Apr 29, 2010.

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  1. Gambit

    Gambit

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    Yeah, I'm gonna be doing that S-tunnel. I figured I'd just shoot it up there if someone wanted to try their hand at it but now I'm fairly certain nobody will or wants to simply because it's a pain-in-the-ass. I'm not sure when I'll do it, but I'll probably post it when I do.
     
  2. Andlabs

    Andlabs

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    Writing my own MD/Genesis sound driver :D
    <!--quoteo(post=455961:date=May 18 2010, 06:06 PM:name=zemulii)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zemulii @ May 18 2010, 06:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=455961">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And another point that just came to mind. You may think it's all well and good to give one or two examples as reference for style... but does any artist or designer just work off one or two references? ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is something similar I was talking about with Gambit in IRC yesterday morning about. I hope no one here is getting the idea that they need to rush to match the stylization Cerulean Nights showed with the chomper a few months ago. Disregarding the references, if the problem is that people are afraid that their contribution is rejected because it doesn't match the chomper, I'm afraid that'll have to die. It's probably unlikely, but still. I'm only giving out my thoughts here, but Gambit said he said a few times that you didn't have to do the style, only that it was preferred, so...

    I'm going to go with King InuYasha and say that testing is the reason why Hill Top Zone is being stalled, even though (at least for me) college testing is over, so I am hoping more contributors over 17 soon.

    I'm also going to add Sonic 4. This deadline comes right when Sonic 4 is just about to be released, and with all the hype surrounding it in recent months I'm certain it's enough of a distraction (look at the threads). You can add to that other projects like FreeRunner and Classic that are eating posts, so I'm really trying to say this has been an unlucky timing for everyone who's seriously committed to the project.

    What I do suggest you do is push the Hill Top Zone date back at least one more month and a half and open up a space for another zone, probably something like Oil Ocean or Aquatic Ruin to encourage people who want to do level art to get started.

    I have no artistic talent whatsoever when it comes to graphics, and you already have people nailing the music, so there's really not much I can do to contribute at this point unless it's on a side of programming that isn't graphics related. I'm just sharing my thoughts here.
     
  3. zemulii

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    What surprises me is that people are quite reluctant to just put out concepts. I mean, concepts don't need to fit a particular vector style so they're quite easy. They can be anything from the quickest, sketchiest sketch, to a 3D model. Is it because people just want to have something of theirs in the final product? I don't really understand it... I never really saw a lot of that Sonic Retro Sonic 4 project; but I'm sure I remember a lot of sketches and MSPaint mockups. What's different here? It's something anyone can do - I thought it would be a reasonably popular way to contribute.
     
  4. Andlabs

    Andlabs

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    Writing my own MD/Genesis sound driver :D
    <!--quoteo(post=456106:date=May 19 2010, 12:52 AM:name=zemulii)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zemulii @ May 19 2010, 12:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=456106">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What surprises me is that people are quite reluctant to just put out concepts. I mean, concepts don't need to fit a particular vector style so they're quite easy. They can be anything from the quickest, sketchiest sketch, to a 3D model. Is it because people just want to have something of theirs in the final product? I don't really understand it... I never really saw a lot of that Sonic Retro Sonic 4 project; but I'm sure I remember a lot of sketches and MSPaint mockups. What's different here? It's something anyone can do - I thought it would be a reasonably popular way to contribute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's another thing. I'm pointing my entire hand at this once immensely laughed at, now immensely laughed at notion of adhering to the original pixels, since we actually have original pixels this time, but all the contributors seem to think that it's the only way to go. <a href="http://sonicretro.org/r/?p=455365" target="_blank">I mean for fuck's sake, THIS GUY. He has the right mindset, and even staff members say so.</a> Plus you have the following scanline99 quote:<!--quoteo(post=426204:date=Mar 15 2010, 09:13 PM:name=scanline99)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scanline99 @ Mar 15 2010, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=426204">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We have ensured that Sonic 2 HD as a package stands up against the finest presentational examples in this high budget HD-era of video games. To re-iterate Vincent, this has a resounding effect on the way we must go about revitalising Sonic 2's graphical assets, meaning that we cannot simply re-hash old sprites, but actually harness the additional resolution afforded to us to realise more accurately the vision intended by the concept artists as well as taking a degree of the creativity into our own hands where needed:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Consider shining more light on this ideology as well.
     
  5. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    I created to what I believe are well made concepts for Aquatic Ruin Zone, Chemical Plant Zone, and Oil Ocean Zone. With Hill Top Zone and Emerald Hill pretty much completed zones, there is no point for concepts. Aquatic Ruin Zone is a zone that I wasn't exactly inclined to touch because it isn't exactly something that lends itself to 3D easily. That leaves:

    Casino Night Zone
    Mystic Cave Zone
    Metropolis Zone
    Sky Chase Zone
    Wing Fortress Zone
    Death Egg Zone: If that even counts with many assets from Chemical Plant I could put this together without too much effort. Then again, I don't know what sprites I would need so it might be a lot more work that I'm writing it off to be.

    With the pace of Emerald Hill Zone I don't think we will be needing concepts for Casino Night Zone for a while. Yeah, someone could throw it together, but it would be eye candy that would come of no use until the zone is actually being made. So it sounds like an off-topic waste of time to be working on concepts for zones that are not even on the plate at the moment.
     
  6. Cerulean Nights

    Cerulean Nights

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    MaximusDM, something that does lend itself to 3D in HTZ is when the blocks are broken. If you could get something mocked up in order to help make a smooth 3D animated block, it would be very helpful I'm sure. Just because the final blocks won't be 3D renders does not mean they can't have the right perspectives in 2D.

    When we are talking about concepts, it doesn't have to be a screenshot mockup of the zone. It can be concepts for single objects as well. You have modeling skills which could be very helpful in a number of ways. You could make a few different renditions of pine trees to get peoples' ideas going, and to use as a base. You could make a model of the ghora to ensure his eye perspectives are right. It's entirely up to your imagination.
     
  7. bobdobbs

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    Been a lurker for a few years... gonna post now :)

    Openness is definitely key... to keeping people interested - as well as being able to see how well progress is going.


    Have a look at OpenTTDs graphics replacement thread:

    New Graphics - Blender ".blend" <a href="http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=14549" target="_blank">http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=14549</a>

    Anybody can come in and put graphics into that thread - they then get constructive critisism until they get good enough to go into the game.

    [EDIT] Also - it took them 5 years to replace the graphics, not these new HD graphics their doing, just the normal ones... S2HD is also in it for the long hall... if anything you might want to make it even more high res than it is right now! :) [/EDIT]

    Some suggestions:

    Make the targets more 'soft' so that anybody can submit a graphic for any level. - For openttd they have a wiki, so you can see every graphic that needs to be done and has been done - perhaps something like this would be useful.

    Consider having a running total: 330/6000 graphics done.

    Consider including unapproved graphics in the game, but have them in black and white to show their placeholders. - This way progress is more visible.


    Release demos more often "release early, release often" is a good mantra, making a new version of the demo available every one or two months has the following advantages:
    - Code is kept in a working condition
    - Interest is kept up as people check for the new version (seeing what new artwork is there etc)
    - A lot more testing of the code and finding bugs
    - Some small proportion of the people testing it might be tempted to actually contribute.


    In summary: Increase visibility of progress, release demos more frequently, lower barriers to entry (allow people to submit graphics outside the target) - but not at the expense of quality.
     
  8. To be fair though, OpenTTD is an open source project, whereas this is closed source. :) But those are still some good suggestions.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Make the targets more 'soft' so that anybody can submit a graphic for any level. - For openttd they have a wiki, so you can see every graphic that needs to be done and has been done - perhaps something like this would be useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    We have something like that. ;)

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Release demos more often "release early, release often" is a good mantra<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The first alpha will be released soon.
     
  9. How soon? An alpha release will likely create A LOT of new interest in this project. A release of the first Zone would be BIG! There would likely be a few articles written on it, and it may be featured on other sites. There is great potential to attract some new talent here.
     
  10. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

    Official Breakfast of S2HD Member
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    Networked lighting
    <!--quoteo(post=465614:date=Jun 10 2010, 03:20 PM:name=subsubstantive)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subsubstantive @ Jun 10 2010, 03:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=465614">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How soon? An alpha release will likely create A LOT of new interest in this project. A release of the first Zone would be BIG! There would likely be a few articles written on it, and it may be featured on other sites. There is great potential to attract some new talent here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Has anyone thought about creating a Facebook page for S2HD, then promoting the nurples out of it? Heck, the general user-base of Facebook shares hordes with those who would be interested in this project.
     
  11. Willie

    Willie

    Each day the world turns Laugh 'til it all burns Member
    Maybe using deviantArt would be helpful for finding artists.
     
  12. Synergy

    Synergy

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    <!--quoteo(post=465749:date=Jun 11 2010, 04:45 AM:name=Hamneggs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamneggs @ Jun 11 2010, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=465749">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has anyone thought about creating a Facebook page for S2HD, then promoting the nurples out of it? Heck, the general user-base of Facebook shares hordes with those who would be interested in this project.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sonic-2-HD/129479011186" target="_blank">There is one</a>, though it hasn't been updated in a year or so.
     
  13. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Sonic 2 HD, various 3D work
    Yeah, we know about the Facebook page. Right now, there's no point to putting up an official one without a playable build to back it up. To be completely honest, it's not a matter of finding additional artists at this point. We need coders. Synergy, it's great to have you around, but you're only one man and I'd feel more than a little guilty trying to hang the balance of the entire Special Stage system on your shoulders. If you end up pulling it off in amazing fashion, you'll have a huge number of fans around here in no time flat. That said, us getting dedicated 3D engine programmers and network multiplayer programmers tops the list of personnel needs for us. I'm open to talking with -anyone- who has a background in these areas to see if they can help us out.
     
  14. Synergy

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    Up to you really, though I do intend to see what I'm doing through on my own regardless of whether it ends up in Sonic 2 HD or not as that's what I initially set out to do before coming here. Personally I think Lost has the lion's share of the programming weight on his shoulders as that's where most of the gameplay time is spent, and he has to maintain a great deal of engine code across multiple platforms and APIs, as well as dealing with all the game code itself on his own. If you intend to bring in other coders, or use any of mine, you will need to sort out a repository or some method of managing code across multiple programmers, especially with this being a closed source project; this will also be necessary as you will probably need other people to build 3D or network code into Lost's codebase (it's probably worth nothing that I had thought about open sourcing my code if it gets to a decent state and if that were the case you would need to consider how that gels with your closed source approach).

    I would say that such a statement comes as a bit of a surprise because if one were judging the project's progress by the activity on the boards as well as your project update and deadline threads - and this is all we can judge it by, as forum members - then current targets are all art-based and these dates, such as concept art for HTZ, or any hypothetical date for an alpha, are being missed because art is not getting produced quickly enough, or there aren't enough artists. If as you now mention programming is a problem in getting things done by specific deadlines then you ought to outline what specific elements of the codebase you want to see functioning by those same deadlines.
     
  15. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Good points Synergy. The reason I haven't put anything code related in the targets thread is because they're not immediate targets. Getting the main zones functional takes priority first, and the multiplayer component will be something we concentrate on when those are finished. We do however, need to get planning on how that and the Special Stage is going to fit in with the main gameplay engine, and to that end we need people with experience to assist us with outlines and integration. People like yourself :) You're right in saying that LOst carries the burden of programming right now, but he's told us multiple times that he'd need someone else for the 3D and multiplayer coding since those aren't in his scope of expertise. As I don't have any experience in that area, I'm collecting all the suggestions I can about how we can manage things to make them possible.

    And you're absolutely correct about the targets being missed. June 15th is approaching in a matter of days. I'll be out of town the week of the 15th, but I'll see what I can do to find a place to post up the announcement for it within a reasonable amount of time.
     
  16. mmagamer

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    hi folks, not sure this is the best place to mention, but if you require any programming/coding assistance then I would like to volunteer, I am a games programmer and hold a degree in that field, I have worked on 3d games engines, I am highly efficient in C++, OpenGL, SDL, Lua, Direct X. I also have extensive skills in the adobe suite software for the designing aspect.
    if this is not the correct thread could you point me in the right direction, thanks.
     
  17. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Welcome to S2HD mmagamer. Do you have any examples of work you've done so far?
     
  18. mmagamer

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    <!--quoteo(post=466255:date=Jun 12 2010, 03:14 PM:name=Canned Karma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canned Karma @ Jun 12 2010, 03:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=466255">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Welcome to S2HD mmagamer. Do you have any examples of work you've done so far?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I have a portfolio of stuff I have developed over the years, if you can point out what types of examples then I can collate something together relative to S2HD,

    or you can tell me what you are looking for and I can refer back to you with your request.
     
  19. steveswede

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    <!--quoteo(post=466267:date=Jun 12 2010, 03:43 PM:name=mmagamer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mmagamer @ Jun 12 2010, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=466267">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=466255:date=Jun 12 2010, 03:14 PM:name=Canned Karma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canned Karma @ Jun 12 2010, 03:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=466255">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Welcome to S2HD mmagamer. Do you have any examples of work you've done so far?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I have a portfolio of stuff I have developed over the years, if you can point out what types of examples then I can collate something together relative to S2HD,

    or you can tell me what you are looking for and I can refer back to you with your request.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think you should show what you think is your best work and what you feel is relevant to this project. Also showing off some of you creative flare will go a long way. Nice to see another programmer enthusiast wanting to take part in this project.
     
  20. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Right now our project has a very defined need in the multiplayer programming area. Have you done anything in that regard? Also, have you created any custom engines for the 2D or 3D realm? Aside from that, steveswede's comments hold true.
     
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