General Project Thread & Feedback

For those people who do not understand -

Knuckles cannot jump as high as sonic, he would not be able to reach the wall to climb up it.
Tails would become fatigued before reaching the top.

There was a diagram showing how each character could get to unique places.

 

Seriously, are you trying to pass the Metal Shield idea as your own? Because, for those who don't know, it was already made at the old boards and was supposed to do just that, originally.

Now that you mention it, it could be interesting to make the characters have the same stats (speed, jump, grip) they had in Sonic 3's Versus mode...

 

By saying old forums you mean those Sonic 4 forums, right? Because I don't know nothing about them and I never visited them. AND I SWEAR that the Metal Shield idea came across my mind before a whole month and I tought to finally post it here.

 

And when Iceknight posted them on the old forum I said to him that, while I wasn't against the idea of a spike-proof shield, there was something that bothered me in it.

The problem is that, unlike thunder, fire, water, and maybe ice, spikes appears in every zone. Yeah, Thunder shield can protect you from electric damage, but how many enemies could really electrocute Sonic? I only remember a boss and a common badnick in Carnival Night Zone. And the same can be said for fire water and ice too.

But spikes? Yes, spikes are one of the bigger, if not the biggest enemy since the first game. And not only in Sonic. Mario games, Mega Man games. Almost every platformer has spikes.

Summing up, these are my 2 problems:

1 - Spikes are a major hazard in almost every platformer. They represent the classic stage hazard, and having a shield that protect Sonic from them seems... wrong.
2 - Spikes appear in every zone (there are very few exceptions), while fire, thunder, water and, why not, ice appear only in a limited amount of zones. This makes those shields useful, but not broken. Thus, a shield that protects Sonic from spikes is too cheap.


Well, now it may only be me, but I mostly used the elemental shields for their special attack with Sonic, not for their protection.

 

I still say we have a Bottomless pit-springifying shield that makes Sonic do a red spring bounce whenever he falls into them.

If we aren't going to LOLSPAM the pits, I think they could make for some pretty interesting paths.

 

I know the shield is cheap and that's why I think it should be very rare and hard to find.

 

Bad idea. And even IF we get one of these, they better be the spring monitors from Game-Gear.

 

In that case, we could try making more electic-based enemies.

I believe the best way to expand upon the elemental shields is to use them to access different paths in the levels you couldn't otherwise access without a specific shield. The fire shield would be used to access areas that are too hot such as lava pits (not unlike the Varia Suit from Metroid Zero Mission). The electric shield would be used to go through electric barriers, and the water shield would allow you to go through secret water passages that have no air bubbles (there would be a sign to warn you of that in advance).

As for an item that would deal with those bottomless pits, a more simple solution would be to put checkpoints before the bottomless pits (assuming we'll only see bottomless pits in the sky/flying fortress level). If anything else, we could introduce a helicopter item which can only be used once and only once you fall into a pit. It would control the same way Tails does when he flies, only it stops working once you're back on solid land.

EDIT: Heh heh, I went off on a tangent. About the spike shield. I'm not too sure about the idea myself. If it's included in the game, at least make it rare and hard to find.

 

I still think it might be a good idea to introduce the "shield specific to zone" idea.

The following is just an example of a possible format.

Tropical Zone- Leaf Shield
Circus Zone- Projectile Defense Shield
Underground- Spike Shield
Mechanical- Electric Shield
Blue Mountain- Fire and Ice, respectively
Water Level- Bubble Shield (however in this game should serve to make sonic go faster underwater)



And for zones that have no specific qualities for shields. Things like the Homing Shield in 3d Blast could be used for that area.

Those are just a few examples. I have no ideas of my own just yet.

 

If we make areas accessible only with certain shields, I say there should be a magnetic ceiling room in an Act that keeps the player suspended above a bottomless pit if they have the Electric Shield.

For the Fire Shield, I'd say thick vegetation that you can burn through, or if in an industrial level, perhaps a dark mist that looks harmless at first, but when the Fire Shield makes contact with the gas, sets off an explosion that clears a new path for the player.

For the Bubble Shield, how about one of the levels has special water that makes the player float to the top when they have the Bubble shield?

 

Just a random idea for exploiting the usage of the shields in yet another way: why not make a specific type of shield get you through an area not by getting past traps of the same type but by making you able to fight against enemies who are able to be hit but are always surrounded by flame, electricity, etc., and are conveniently stationed so that you would either have to destroy them to get past them or get hit by them to use your split-second invincibility to run past them, consequently resulting in the loss of most of your rings -- maybe all of them.

In other words, you could find a narrow passageway has special, alternate version of enemies who are of a higher caliber in difficulty in as much as each one is constantly generating a flamethrower/electric forcefield so that the player must be wearing a Fire/Electric Shield to be able to attack them without getting burned/electrocuted before making contact with the foe's body.

Naturally these extra pathways would far less enjoyable than the elemental trap pathways; so if used, they would be not implemented as frequently -- for example, only taking up ²/₇ of the "shield-required alternate pathways" (or whatever we should be calling them.) But I'm guessing just about everybody will hate my variation on the elemental trap idea anyway... =/

 

Actually now there's a question...maybe not an important one but something I'm sure not many people have considered yet.

In this game, will it be a case of Sonic losing all his rings as per standard?

Or should it instead be a case of he loses a specific amount of rings every hit?


Strangely, I would choose option 1 still. However, its an interesting point. Sega did it eventually from ShtH onwards. However, whether this was an improvement or an "evolution" is another thing to be considered entirerly.

Yet, I mention this now because it does effect the style of gameplay entirely.

 

No way. I'm sorry but I completely disapprove of the possibility of Sonic losing only a certain amount of rings. It would kill the difficulty of this game considerably. We would have to put in some really cheap traps and badniks in order to balance it all out, we should keep it simple and nothing else.

 

I just don't see what's wrong with just keeping with the Basic Shields for now instead of thinking of other shields that only have minor effect. =P

 

Sorry for the repost, but I think I got sandwiched. If no-one thinks it's a good idea, please mention it.

 

Well if you could only collect a few rings back when you lost them and you actually needed them to get into the special stages like in Triple Trouble, that idea makes sense (hence they used that in that game).

It's probably not worth it in general though.

 

I do like this idea, but I can't see it being implemented into the game unless we create a well thought out level structure and some sort of gimmick supporting it. Otherwise it's just there with no use other then having another alternative of speed besides the spin dash/peel out. Maybe if we used it like the Shine Spark trick in Super Metroid instead, when Samus runs forward with great speed, hold down, then release in the direction and propel her forward at an incredible rate destroying obstacles in her path.

 

I think it could change the main gameplay way too much, unless there's certain level gimmick in place.

Perhaps when running over hot sand or something? =P

 

I don't want to make a Sonic 3 expansion pack. Any ideas that could at least separate this slightly from the past games are nice as long as they're not too insane.

This for example, could be used as a sort of "advance-tech" of sorts. Not exactly necessary for the gameplay, but say a quick direction input would activate it. Basic players wouldn't need it, advance players would probably like it, and it could lead to more interesting level designs.



Shield Discussion:

At the moment, we will stick with the standard three.

 

In a way that quick turn move reminds me of the addition of the instant shield, which I think is the sort of new moves that we should aim for. It has the feel of those sections where a spring is used to fire you back in the opposite direction and in order for you to take a different route you have to time your jump over it, in that respect is used in the oppposite way with you having to time a quick change of direction to take a seperate route.
If the wall jump is implemented it should function in a similar way, requiring split second timing to execute and avoid an attack or add something to the flow of the game and increase the interactivity with the environment.

Im not too keen on how the wall jump is used in newer games with it being a crucial part of finishing a level with repeated use to access high up areas.