Discussion in 'Project: Sonic Retro (Archive)' started by Phoebius, Nov 9, 2008.
*Working on it*
I'm adding my two cents here, since I'm now semi-active on these forums again.
I'll not open a big can of stinky worms like I did S2HD, because I feel like I've grown since then, but there is one thing I'm wondering about;
I'm talking about the whole caboodle, anything which moves. Now, I have a few questions before I rant, namely:
1: Is the character animation simply going to be traced/copied from the stock S2/S3 animations, or will there be a look into making different animations?
2: For the minor 'characters' (Enemies, background objects), it was traditionally done that only one or two frames would be used (Hardware limitations to save on art, more than likely. Not an issue here, I believe). Is this still going to be the case?
The reasons I ask are for purposes of genuinely furthering the project past Sonic 3 (Henceforth, when I refer to '3', this encompasses Sonic and Knuckles).
My first question is aimed at the nasty even spacing between poses in the main character animation; everything seems pretty mechanical and, well, videogamey when compared with more 'accepted' forms of animation, such as cartoons (I'm maintaining even now that the original Sonic was researched and developed as a pastiche of western cartoons in order to target the US - the largest possible demographic at the time, and very important).
In reference to question two, I refer you to several S3 enemies (The ICZ penguin, the AIZ rhino being examples) that were given more than the basic badnik animation, and so a (Possibly) emergent trend in improving the general animation could be identified there.
And finally, I'd just like to say that the character animation in the 16-bit Sonic games is actually quite nasty. We're all so accustomed to it, we don't notice how mechanical it is, but take it from me; even with Sonic 1's six-frame a better 'slow run'* cycle can be done.
*; Because it's not a walk -- a walk cycle never has both feet leave the ground at the same time, as is the case with the extreme poses.
I read in this topic terms as "tile", "16x16 tile" and "128x128 tile". To prevent ambiguity, as all these entities are referred to with the same word, I propose the SonED2 terminology: "tile", "block" and "chunk" respectively.
I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this, but I have a suggestion..
Sonic the Hedgehog = Sonic
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 = Sonic, Tails.
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 = Sonic, Tails and Knuckles.
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 = Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and ???
Get the pattern? I would suggest you add another playable character. Most suitably Classic Amy, since you've got Metal Sonic in their.
Just a suggestion though.. >3>;
We had that discussion on the 'sonic 4' forum a while back and I think we decided not to add a new playale character but to have an extra villian working with robotnik who is more involved with the story, like Metal Sonic or Nack.
Although now we've moved I guess that is up for debate again, personally I think there are too many 'heroes' in the sonic universe, might be nice to even the score for once and have a villian that doesn't either turn on robotnick or become good in the end.
I pre-empt this as a wildy unpopular idea; community contest for a new character.
Being a contest, this would get people interested who probably wouldn't normally. And, the drive to BE THE BEST would mean that the entries would be of a generally high quality, in theory.
I actually hate fan characters with a passion (usually), but if put to a democratic vote, the best possible Community character could be designed, and this would immediately give it more credibility.
Good to see someone suggest something I was thinking, and NOT going to actually post
Myes, maybe as an unlockable for completing the game or something. Having this character playable from the start makes it more.. 'Fan gameish'? :x
Although I was more referring to an official SEGA/Sonic Team character..
If you want to be technical, Chaotix is the /sequel/ to 'Sonic 4'. Amy is in Chaotix, although a Cameo, she's still there. Same with Sonic and Tails. Knuckles is playable, therefore all the characters are in the prequel, this being 'Sonic 4'. It makes sense to be honest.
Remember that in the original Sonic 3, Knuckles was not directly playable; he started out as an antagonist, and eventually switched sides near the end. It wasn't until Sonic & Knuckles until he was actually playable.
Storyline-wise, I don't see a reason to add a new character. Technically speaking, Nack is acting as the "new" character, since he was never properly introduced to the main series. He wouldn't be playable, but he'd be there.
Nack would be good. In any case, I would suggest a new character acting as a secondary villain, for the reason outlined by Matwek.
Whilst a totally original character would be interesting, I really don't think it's within the scope of reason for us to tamper with the Sonic formula that much. I've seen fan characters put in original games before—suffice to say, it wasn't very pretty. I think it's better for us to revive abandoned character designs over making our own, for both the sake of familiarity and to avoid overstepping our boundaries.
I think the idea is neat in general, mind, but I don't quite think it's right for this particular project.
Okay. Although I personally wouldn't be against some minor (And I stress this point. MINOR) redesigns of the established characters as well.
Because, to me at least, the whole "let's make Sonic 4" thing is terribly wannabe-ish in a way, although not without merit for it's passion. But, given that we are not the original team, we will never create a work like that of the original team, so the spirit could be captured whilst at the same time putting to best use the individual skills and talents of each member, whilst putting a distinct Sonic Retro stamp on the project.
Just my two-penneth, though. I don't expect any suggestions of "tampering" with the formula to be met well anyway.
Well, when it comes to redesigns, there was a new set of character sprites. I don't know if it was posted here yet or not, but they do look pretty spiffy.
I did have an idea for a story that covered a fair few of the debates that have been raging over who should be the new character, should there be a different metal sonic and should the final boss take place in space or underground for a change.
Quick and simple like most of the old sonic stories.
Robotnick employs Nack to help him steal the master emerald in return for his own Metal sonic bodyguards.
Sonic, Knuckles and Tails follow them.
Near the end the game splits with sonic going after Robotnik in space, Knuckes following Nack as he escapes in a Sub and Tails goes back for the Bi-Plane.
That leaves things open for some quite cool concepts. We had a particularly good idea of the master emerald being turned into a bomb to be fired from space and super sonic racing after it to stop it before it hits (pictures on the old forum).
Kuckles story could end with him fighting Nacks new sonic bodyguards all at once, which allows for several new metal sonic designs, and I always wondered what tails got up too when he went back for the plane, could have a few extra bosses there.
I like that, actually. Mind if I throw in a few Metal Sonic designs?
<!--quoteo(post=243946:date=Nov 11 2008, 03:10 PM:name=Jayextee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jayextee @ Nov 11 2008, 03:10 PM)
The first two sketches are mine but credit for the bomb goes too ICEknight7 (although I think the tip of the bomb should be the master emerald
No death egg again...
It's ok if you repeat it once, but 3rd time is stupidity.
I think robotnik learned his lesson :P
Nack should be miniboss of each act 1.
I think Nack and Amy Rose should both be in this game somewhere. Just my opinion.
I don't really think Amy should be in it, if she's anything more than a cameo. She's nothing like the 3 main characters, they all are based off Sonic, but with some differences. Tails just has the extra ability to be able to fly, Knuckles can glide, and climb walls. Besides that, they are all just Sonic with different art.
Amy on the other hand is nothing like any of them, except for looking like a pink Sonic with clothes.
Amy was one of biggest reason, why I don't like 3d sonic games or sonic cd
(It does not bother me in sonic cd so much, but still)
If I see amy in this game, I'll kill myself.
I think, Nack is good idea.
While we're at it, I think we'll throw in Cream and Big... lol nah, just kidding.. But seriously, it is very unlikely that Amy Rose will be a part of this due to the feedback against it. However, I strongly believe that a 16 bit Nack would be a whole new and exciting thing.
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