General Project Thread & Feedback

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Vangar, Mar 8, 2008.

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  1. steveswede

    steveswede

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    I should have known that I would not see the announcement on the 15th. I'm off to bed.
     
  2. zemulii

    zemulii

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    Well I think the more the project <I>appears</I> active, the more community involvement (art etc.) you'll get. The more excited people are about a project, the more likely they'll be to want to be a part of it and contribute. Even just a small update every week or two perhaps on what has been going on behind the scenes? Just to keep people interested! When you start to see threads not updated in weeks, there's less reason to even come back to check the forum. I don't have a huge problem with the way things are going... but I think that for things to pick up around here we really need a few more "teasers". I think it used to be more like that. But not so much lately...

    I don't think you want the general community to have <I>too</I> much freedom, as that's when things can start to become one big mess.
     
  3. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

    Official Breakfast of S2HD Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=426182:date=Mar 15 2010, 07:25 PM:name=zemulii)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zemulii @ Mar 15 2010, 07:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=426182"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well I think the more the project <I>appears</I> active, the more community involvement (art etc.) you'll get. The more excited people are about a project, the more likely they'll be to want to be a part of it and contribute. Even just a small update every week or two perhaps on what has been going on behind the scenes? Just to keep people interested! When you start to see threads not updated in weeks, there's less reason to even come back to check the forum. I don't have a huge problem with the way things are going... but I think that for things to pick up around here we really need a few more "teasers".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    "I SECOND THAT MOTION!" —Mallanāga Vātsyāyana, author of, well, umm...
     
  4. Can't wait for whatever this is we've been waiting for...
     
  5. Vincent

    Vincent

    Sonic 2HD - Project Leader & Chara Member
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    <div align='center'><img src="http://I.imgur.com/FAbA2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>

    Hi Everyone,

    It's with great pleasure that today, March 15th, we'll show off a bit of what's been going on with S2HD behind the scenes since last year, and, with the help of a couple of teasers, hopefully give you all a better idea of what's been keeping us so busy!

    What you have seen until today has been completely redone on a new polished art style; one which blends in cartoony and CG definition into a single and colourful environment. To achieve that, we did not limit our work by converting the original frames through vectors. Instead, we've re-imagined them within strict and original directions from the concept artworks and dedicated animation studies.

    Let's start up with the main character updates:

    Sonic frames have been completed, revised, partly redrawn and upgraded to a newer standard in both animation quality and frame count. Some key animations have been extended, as well as a couple of surprises we'll show off with the Alpha Release.

    <div align='center'><img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/sddano.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>

    Small animals (Flicky and Ricky) have been completely redrawn to match the concept artwork instead of their game sprites:

    <div align='center'><img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/jphgmq.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>

    Sonic 2 HD is a project with unimaginable passion within. Thanks to the solid dedication shared by teamwork, our art has evolved in both creation methods and results, and has come to a completely new quality level.
    From an art standpoint we're getting things very close to completion for AR, yet some parts will surely need to be further adjusted and/or polished to present them on the intended quality level.

    After SEGA's exciting announcement of Sonic 4 we wish to publically state that we do fully support it and can't wait to play!
    For this very reason, while still working on delivering you the absolute best content on S2HD's AR, we do respect SEGA's artists and programmers work, so that we'll hold back any public release until Sonic 4 is out.
    On a final note, the former S2HD art contribution system is still left intact, meaning the most noteworthy talents and ideas will be approved and accepted by S2HD Staff as always.

    Sonic 2 HD is alive and kicking hard guys. Expect amazing stuff -- we're telling it to you as fellow players! ;)
     
  6. scanline99

    scanline99

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    We have ensured that Sonic 2 HD as a package stands up against the finest presentational examples in this high budget HD-era of video games. To re-iterate Vincent, this has a resounding effect on the way we must go about revitalising Sonic 2's graphical assets, meaning that we cannot simply re-hash old sprites, but actually harness the additional resolution afforded to us to realise more accurately the vision intended by the concept artists as well as taking a degree of the creativity into our own hands where needed:


    <div align='center'><img src="http://i44.tinypic.com/20zzno9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    <img src="http://i43.tinypic.com/2uqknqs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>


    In-game HD artwork aside, this effect is also felt on the shape of the frontend for the game as what was once acceptable in the early 90's comes off as cheap and basic in 2010. There are a number of next-gen titles now where the very notion of a classic frontend is challenged and brought into it's own, and gains the potential to heighten the gamer's experience in doing so.

    Sonic 2's menu system and frontend was very much function over form, but Sonic 2 HD whilst absolutely retaining the strongest relationship with the classic Sonic/art deco aesthetic of 1992, will level this scale out. The result will be a menu system that is fast and efficient to navigate, but is also is intended as a place the player can enjoy strolling through at a leisurely pace if they so choose as they absorb a rich HD visual re-imagining of Sonic 2's frontend loaded with classic detail.

    For the core staff, Sonic 2 HD is very much a labour of love and we uphold the importance of preserving the correct 'feel' of the original title in every department. However, to simply duplicate the original assets in a higher resolution would do this title a disservice as (in some cases) they do not withstand the test of time - nearly 2 decades, and so serious revision must take place. Rest assurred, those who want Sonic 2 HD to be the best incarnation it can be will very much appreciate what they see at the time of Alpha release.
     
  7. Gambit

    Gambit

    Sonic 2 HD Staff - Level Artist Member
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    Sonic 2 HD
    Over the past year I've been working on this project, and I've been doing my best to make Emerald Hill come to life, and I believe I've done just that. The grass really looks lush and I've even brought oddities like the bush into the current generation. I have, of course, worked on other things, some of them you all have seen, and I have done some other work that's lead towards the development of things we'll show off in the future. I look forward to getting Emerald Hill finished and out in playable form to you all, but also because I'm sure you'll all enjoy it.

    <div align='center'><img src="http://i42.tinypic.com/9icw7c.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>

    Here's some number crunching for a few areas of the art for those of you that enjoy this kind of thing.

    <b>Emerald Hill Level Assets</b>

    EHZ Tileset: 90%
    EHZ Level Layout: 80%
    EHZ Level Objects: 90%
    EHZ Background: complete

    <b>Emerald Hill Badniks</b>

    Masher: complete
    Buzzer: 75%
    Coconuts: complete
    Drilldozer: 75%

    <b>Additional Progress</b>

    Titlescreen: 60%
    Menus: 50-60%
    HUD: 80%
     
  8. LOst

    LOst

    Tech Member
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    Over the last few months, the new Sonic 2 HD engine has been redesigned to deal with issues that the Tech Demo had, as were pointed out by many people here at Sonic Retro. The concern has been mainly on hardware requirements. We want the largest possible group of players to be able to access the game, and also a way to play the game without having to deal with slowdowns because of the massive HD graphics. The OpenGL render is used to bring more speed to more 3D optimized hardware such as the new Nvidia Ion chipset, but it will also work on older graphics cards such as the Nvidia Geforce 4 chipset.
    The Sonic engine will be improved on several stages, and most of them will be modified with close Alpha releases in the future. Beta testing will follow the finished concepts.
    The Special Stage will be added much later, when we have a couple of normal levels done.
     
  9. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

    S2HD Project Manager Member
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    Sonic 2 HD, various 3D work
    Report on S2HD as a community project:

    Recently there's been a lot of wondering regarding why S2HD has been operating behind the scenes. There's a few answers behind this. The first is to keep things as organized and coordinated as possible. Any successful project needs a strong leadership core to guide it. This is why a dedicated staff was created in the project's infancy. Many of you have brought up the issue of whether S2HD is an actual "community" project.

    S2HD will now be considered a closed community project. What does this mean? Before I get to that, let me clearly state that we still want your contributions. S2HD will not close itself off to your ideas, concepts, and artwork. The groundwork for this project could not have been laid without you, and while an end result may be possible with just the staff, we doubt anyone wants to wait around for the number of years that would take unassisted. Many of you have proven to be valuable talents, and we thank you for your efforts and look forward to working with you in the future. I'd like to allay any fears on credit given as well. <b>Those of you who have contributed so far have already gained a place in S2HD's history, and you will be fully acknowledged in its credits.</b> That said, the staff reserves the right to make final approval on staff made pieces. We will continue to evaluate, accept, and approve contributions from those wishing to contribute to the S2HD, but if the staff has put weeks into something, it stands to reason that it won't be changed at the drop of a hat. We've all seen how completely open projects can break down even when based on the best of intentions. We're trying to learn from this to keep our commitment to you that <b>S2HD will not be abandoned.</b> Tasks cannot be accomplished if every single piece of art or project decision is questioned by dozens of people. Undoubtedly, there will be disagreements along the way, and while we'd love to be able to please everyone, it's just not possible with such a diverse group of opinions. These perspectives are considered a strength to the project, as more ideas provide artists with more inspiration to draw from. They can't, however, be a shackle to the project's progress.

    We haven't shown the most updated artwork so far because we're aiming for the highest standards possible—until the existing art has reached that level it will be counterproductive to show off half-completed work. Not all work done by the staff will be immediately released to the public. If we kept revising work every time another 'amazing' idea was proposed, the project would never be finished.

    The staff would like to note that we've seen instances of original work from S2HD taken without permission and used for promotion, intentional or otherwise, of other properties. We would greatly appreciate it if this would end immediately. It's not fair to the artists who have labored to create the work for the project.

    We continue to ask for your help, as the staff could not have come together in the first place without the talents of the community to draw from. Proof of this rests in the fact that the staff is still in need of programmer talent for 3D engine work in the special stages, and potentially in the multiplayer component as well. That said, the art style has been set in place, and there is a set direction for how the project will function.

    In short, you guys want a game, and you want information on it. We want your patience until the alpha. These announcements were planned specifically to let you know that hard work is being done on a consistent basis, and it's only gearing up from here on in. We guarantee it will be worth the wait!
     
  10. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    I've deleted all the dumbassed placeholders except the ones done by the staff. Next person to make one gets banned for a week.
     
  11. Jayextee

    Jayextee

    Comic Mischief Member
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    I DONE MAKED GAMES.
    <!--quoteo(post=426204:date=Mar 16 2010, 01:13 AM:name=scanline99)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scanline99 @ Mar 16 2010, 01:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=426204"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However, to simply duplicate the original assets in a higher resolution would do this title a disservice as (in some cases) they do not withstand the test of time - nearly 2 decades, and so serious revision must take place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I wonder how many years ago I said exactly this. Repeatedly.

    I can't wait to see what you're hiding underneath the silhouettes, to be honest. It had better be worth all the damn secrecy.
     
  12. Shadic

    Shadic

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    Home improvement eternal
    <strike>placehol</strike>

    ...So, the big announcement is that you'll be taking a few more liberties from the base game? And an engine optimization? An engine that we've only had one real test on, unless I'm mistaken?

    That's nice, I guess. Still seems like the project is basically closed off, but willing to take some art contributions from other people that are mostly left in the dark.

    Looks nice, though.
     
  13. Tanks

    Tanks

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    I dunno' guys... I'm cool with this. If it gets us a good game, who gives a shit about it being a community project or not? It seems to be working fine for them...
     
  14. Mad Echidna

    Mad Echidna

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    I'm very impressed with this progress. The artwork is clearly headed in the right direction, and I'm glad to see the tight quality control. One of the big things that bothered me about earlier art was that while I loved the character and flicky art, the level objects and badniks didn't seem to match. Now I can see a very consistant art direction, and that's great.
     
  15. RAMPKORV

    RAMPKORV

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    I still think there's a productivity loss when the community is divided into "we and them", where "we" deliver and "them" recieve. I fail to see how that is the best way to take advantage of the involvement.

    I am happy thought that there has finally been stated that this in fact is no community project but in fact a fangame project run by an elitist group.
     
  16. Andlabs

    Andlabs

    「いっきまーす」 Wiki Sysop
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    Writing my own MD/Genesis sound driver :D
    <!--quoteo(post=426204:date=Mar 15 2010, 09:13 PM:name=scanline99)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scanline99 @ Mar 15 2010, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=426204"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We have ensured that Sonic 2 HD as a package stands up against the finest presentational examples in this high budget HD-era of video games. To re-iterate Vincent, this has a resounding effect on the way we must go about revitalising Sonic 2's graphical assets, meaning that we cannot simply re-hash old sprites, but actually harness the additional resolution afforded to us to realise more accurately the vision intended by the concept artists as well as taking a degree of the creativity into our own hands where needed:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thank you for finally taking a stand against the s-called "original pixel faggots." This project can't possibly be a true recreation in HD if this keeps going.

    <!--quoteo(post=426204:date=Mar 15 2010, 09:13 PM:name=scanline99)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scanline99 @ Mar 15 2010, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=426204"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://i44.tinypic.com/20zzno9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Wow. Just fucking wow. Now THIS is more like it! I absolutely love this new style and I hope that you take it all the way for the final release; it's not to what I had in mind for "Sonic 2 in HD," but it's so much better than before. Keep it up

    <!--quoteo(post=426205:date=Mar 15 2010, 09:13 PM:name=Gambit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gambit @ Mar 15 2010, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=426205"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://i42.tinypic.com/9icw7c.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm sorry, but for some reason, looking at the ground in that picture is disorienting. Maybe it's the way the edges of the grass blur? I don't know, but I'll have to see this in motion before I make a final judgment. I like that tree though; it shows a lot of the Hidden Palace emerald, which is always nice to see.

    <!--quoteo(post=426206:date=Mar 15 2010, 09:13 PM:name=LOst)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LOst @ Mar 15 2010, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=426206"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Over the last few months, the new Sonic 2 HD engine has been redesigned to deal with issues that the Tech Demo had, as were pointed out by many people here at Sonic Retro. The concern has been mainly on hardware requirements. We want the largest possible group of players to be able to access the game, and also a way to play the game without having to deal with slowdowns because of the massive HD graphics. The OpenGL render is used to bring more speed to more 3D optimized hardware such as the new Nvidia Ion chipset, but it will also work on older graphics cards such as the Nvidia Geforce 4 chipset.
    The Sonic engine will be improved on several stages, and most of them will be modified with close Alpha releases in the future. Beta testing will follow the finished concepts.
    The Special Stage will be added much later, when we have a couple of normal levels done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Glad to see that you're actually taking the programming seriously. I will still hold my point as to the open-sourcing of this project, but I wish you good luck nonetheless.

    All in all, good luck with whatever comes in the future. I'm no artist, I can't program OpenGL, and the music is already done, so this is really where I'm going to have to say that I can't contribute much anyway (unless you need some help in other areas of the code, like data structures/algorithms). But these announcements have definitely changed my opinion of this game.
     
  17. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Updates and progress seem relatively solid so far! Really liking the updated artwork, and that smooth walking animation makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

    Here's my one problem with this whole thing:
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->S2HD will now be considered a closed community project.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No. No, no, no no no. This is not how this forum's community project system works; you cannot just do all your little work in secret and make use of the community's resources and talent when you deem it appropriate. This is something that Project Retro tried to do when it was still known as Sonic 4 and I wholly denied its application to become a community project in the first place. When it comes to something like this, you take it all or you don't take it at all—period. I'm not saying you have to honor every single mundane complaint made by the people here who think they're artists but actually aren't, but at the <I>very least</I> I would request you actually update people on project progress on a consistent basis. This will not only give people a better sense of "community" in the project (even if it's falsified at the end of the day), but it will absolutely encourage people to contribute their talents towards your project. It is an absolute win-win situation on your end.

    All of this complaining about the closed status of the project is not without basis. Again—you do not have to honor or adhere to every little complaint or change that people wish to make when you post work, but at the <I>very least</I> you should share it. When you just post goals for people and show absolutely nothing, you'll get just that—absolutely nothing. This is a big part of the reason why it's been two years and you're just now finishing Emerald Hill Zone—nobody thinks anything is getting done and doesn't give it their time, effort, and skill. I know this is a big reason I haven't tried to do any music for the project at all, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    <b>Provide incentive.</b> You are not providing incentive; you're just doing marketing and promotion. And believe me—I know what that's all about because I do the exact same thing. That's why I'm telling you this kind of shit isn't going to fly. You can't keep doing this and keep maintaining your own subforum... and trust me, you want this subforum, because the kind of attention our forums give you is the entire reason why your project has come so far in the first place. Be smart about this.
     
  18. Mad Echidna

    Mad Echidna

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    <!--quoteo(post=426223:date=Mar 15 2010, 07:23 PM:name=RAMPKORV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RAMPKORV @ Mar 15 2010, 07:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=426223"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->elitist group.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Oh, for goodness sake. They've admitted it's not a community project guys. Case closed.

    This is no different than ANY OTHER FANGAME OR hack. I wish everyone would stop trying to turn this into melodrama. No one who is working on this game owes us ANYTHING. We did not render payments for any goods or services. If you like it, fine. If you don't, dandy. But don't call the fucking ACLU on this.

    EDIT: This has nothing to do with Tweaker's post, I like and agree with what he said generally.
     
  19. jasonchrist

    jasonchrist

    Give Us A Wank Misfit
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    Sonic Classic Hybrid Project
    This is fantastic news guys! I hope your taking liberties approach will allow for new larger and more interesting layouts. But honestly? Whatever you do is going to be fucking great, simply because of all the love that's going into it.

    That Sonic walk is as smooth as a waxed minge, I love it!
     
  20. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    <!--quoteo(post=426225:date=Mar 16 2010, 03:25 AM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Mar 16 2010, 03:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=426225"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Updates and progress seem relatively solid so far! Really liking the updated artwork, and that smooth walking animation makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

    Here's my one problem with this whole thing:
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->S2HD will now be considered a closed community project.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No. No, no, no no no. This is not how this forum's community project system works; you cannot just do all your little work in secret and make use of the community's resources and talent when you deem it appropriate. This is something that Project Retro tried to do when it was still known as Sonic 4 and I wholly denied its application to become a community project in the first place. When it comes to something like this, you take it all or you don't take it at all—period.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No offense intended but perhaps the reason people keep wanting it closed is because the other way <I>doesn't work</I>.

    <!--coloro:#000000--><span style="color:#000000"><!--/coloro-->I hope you like my italics :D<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
     
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