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General Project Thread & Feedback

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Vangar, Mar 8, 2008.

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  1. Vincent

    Vincent

    Sonic 2HD - Project Leader & Chara Member
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    Keeping the "world" record up to date is a feature we've already planned :words:
    About the other features you've mentioned they seems very appealing yet, regular level first.

    So guys, and artists... Let's keep the art coming! ^^
     
  2. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    Blue Sphere, anybody?

    :colbert:
     
  3. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
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    1. Blue Spheres isn't random. It uses actual data from the cartridge to create special stages with a precise pattern. There's a formula somewhere on the internet that explains how to generate them. Basically each stage is made up of 4 sectors, each of them picked from a selection of 128.
    2. Blue Spheres is Sonic 3 / Sonic & Knuckles, S2HD is Sonic 2
     
  4. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    Well the point I was trying to make was that Blue Sphere used a system where it chose 4 stand-alone levels and meshed them together in ways that weren't always good. The problem I fear a randomly generated Sonic 2 Special Stage will have is that the individual parts will be good, but the whole will usually be equal to, or even less than, the sum of its parts. How can we ensure that randomly generated stages still have good design, like the original 7 stages?
     
  5. nineko

    nineko

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    We can't. Just think about the X Cup in F-Zero X, where it randomly generates tracks. Sometimes they're unbeatable :3
     
  6. Gambit

    Gambit

    Sonic 2 HD Staff - Level Artist Member
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    I once got a track that was so insane that it ended up killing EVERY racer at once. I'm fortunate that I had a couple of lives left, because I died the first try. Those were some lonely three laps without the other cars.
     
  7. DTX

    DTX

    A fellow w/a name fit for nary a man save himself Member
    Oh my gosh, lol! That's ridiculous.

    On the subject of randomly generated Special Stages, that doesn't sound so bad... for multiplayer, that is. (Of course =P. We're not going to change all the Special Stages during the 1P mode only to have a bunch of frustrated, angry fans vehemently protesting that it's 'impossible to get Super Sonic or Super Knuckles in S2HD,' that would be a terrible mistake. So yeah, of course I meant it doesn't sound so bad for 2P mode.) It would challenge those to win who have greater reflexes and skills over those who know the layouts really well, thus making it more fair.
     
  8. zemulii

    zemulii

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    If the problem is the risk of nearly impossible stages, then maybe it could work if you just kept the "randomness" to a minimum? There are surely ways to keep it under control. I think the idea is great, and could add a lot of life to the special stages. Though I agree, it should stay out of the main single player mode. Just simple things like randomly mirrored turns etc. over a stage template rather than a full randomly generated stage. Just enough to add some level of unpredictability while still keeping the general flow of the stage under control.
     
  9. The random special stages could be handled like Blue Sphere, thus eliminating horribly placed items. Have the Stages divided into 4/8/16 pieces (eliminate as neccessary) and have the game load pre-defined courses.

    Dunno if it's been mentioned, but I myself like how SRB2 handles DLC, anyone can just design the art and write a small text file (IIRC) and load it in a command line. If it were to be used here, characters and levels could continue being made by those willing, and if not, it isn't a loss. The text file thing would be used to define the characters moves like flying or gliding, just like in SRB2.
     
  10. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    Actually, this could be the start of a good idea.

    First of all, I think the rules of the Special Stage should be changed just slightly for multiplayer. There should be no ring quota or checkpoints; the player with the most rings is the winner. Also for balance issues, bombs should not push players back; instead the game will automatically move the player with the least rings into pole position.

    Now as for stage generation:

    Beforehand, players choose the length of the course, starting difficulty, and difficulty curve. (Alternatively, some or all of these will merely be constants to regulate difficulty)

    There will be a stock of special stage sections used for random level generation. Each section is assigned integer values of Length and Difficulty. For the first section, the game chooses a section with a Difficulty equal to the course's starting difficulty. Then, while the course length is not exceeded, a floating point Level value will increment by the difficulty curve. The next section must have a Difficulty equal to floor(Level).

    Additionally, every section including the first has a chance of repeating 2-5 times. When a section repeats, it has a chance of reflecting (obstacles on the left will be on the right, etc.)

    When the sum of the Lengths of all the sections used exceeds the allotted course length, the Special Stage ends, and the player with the most rings wins.
     
  11. Overlord

    Overlord

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    It's doable to have randomised layouts that are always beatable. Diablo II managed just fine. =P
     
  12. Elratauru

    Elratauru

    Little Shiny Emurralds Member
    That is totally different you know... Diablo II maps are generated like a random option in a Map Generator of a RTS game...
     
  13. Phos

    Phos

    Going for the high score on whatever that little b Member
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    I'm guessing that Diablo's thing just ensure that the there's a path to the destination and is set up to not do anything drastic. The special Stage randomizer could be set up to do the same kind of thing.

    Idea: Make it music sensitive, audio surf style.
     
  14. Exodus

    Exodus

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    travelling salesman anyone?
     
  15. DTX

    DTX

    A fellow w/a name fit for nary a man save himself Member
    Unless I am mistaken and remember falsely, Tails is no different from Sonic insofar as how fast he accelerates, what his top speed is, how high he can jump, etc. But Knuckles is distinctly different from the both of them, on account of being from a later game, Sonic & Knuckles. Will Tails be altered at all so that it will make a difference if you pick him as opposed to Sonic? Or will he remain just a clone of Sonic with different art? Maybe he could be given his Flying ability? Or perhaps a weaker version of it, which would allow Tails to ascend for about 3-4 seconds before getting exhausted? This of course would be balanced out by his having a slightly lower top speed or maybe a lower jump. I just think it would be nice if 2P/Multi-player mode had a little more variety, and to leave the redundancy of Tails in regard to Sonic unaltered is a questionable decision imho.
     
  16. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    A reconfigured Tails should probably be optional, in case people want to be super-nostalgic.
     
  17. zemulii

    zemulii

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    There would probably have to be a fair bit of balancing work if Tails were to be altered (to allow for limited flying etc.) in multiplayer, and even then, certain stages would likely give one player an advantage. If it were implemented just as an option in single player, maybe that could work ok? I personally don't think it's super important though.
     
  18. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Perhaps the character stats in Sonic 3's Vs. mode could be added as an option for multiplayer.
     
  19. DTX

    DTX

    A fellow w/a name fit for nary a man save himself Member
    Not that I'm saying he's not good the way he is or that he's worse than Sonic, it's just that it'd be kind of great if it actually mattered whether someone picked Sonic or Tails. I think slightly tweaking Tail's stats, or at least providing an option which switches Tails's stats from normal to a preset alternative, would be a plus (if doable) -- but as I said, it's obviously not a necessary alteration/addition.

    That doesn't seem like such a bad idea -- assuming it's doable of course.
     
  20. Shadic

    Shadic

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    Assuming you scale everything correctly - The characters were tiny in multiplayer, but they jumped just as high as their normal-sized counterparts.
     
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