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General Project Thread & Feedback

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Vangar, Mar 8, 2008.

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  1. Vincent

    Vincent

    Sonic 2HD - Project Leader & Chara Member
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    The final game will support both resolutions 16:9 (Full HD) and 4:3 (with the sides cut game area like originals).
    So, no more streched Sonic, fortuntely! ^^
     
  2. Ben Laserlove

    Ben Laserlove

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    Oh goody. :eng101:

    Considering that I haven't done anything for this project, I'll just be walking out now...
     
  3. BuffaloWilder

    BuffaloWilder

    One of these men cannot be right. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=254337:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:19 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Dec 7 2008, 09:19 PM) [​IMG][/quote]
    I... don't like where this is going.

    For example, the added green parts and organic stuff in the quoted post. I don't see that as an improvement, as it's just something changed from the graphics I liked back then. Flowers in other games from the time were meant to look organic and even realistic, but it wasn't the case in the first Sonic games. Else, they would have added more details to them, somewhere in the development process.

    In this case, it's a small thing, but also an unneeded change that alters something from the original designs. I fear this could lead to many other changes here and there that will gradually detract from the nostalgia factor.


    Nobody expected this project to be about creativity, as all the design work has already been done and it's been proven to work as it is. You see, when reimagining things you can't expect everybody to like them (see: the character designs in Castlevania Judgement). When keeping things faithful to the source, most of the people who like the originals will like the new version (see: SA2 Green Hill Zone, despites its incompleteness).

    So, I don't see why we should start taking liberties with the art style because a few anonymous internet people (possibly kids that were raised playing realistic 3D games) said the graphics were too plain. They probably thought the same when seeing the original game, so we shouldn't care much about what they say.

    I'm sure that some of them would also love to see something like this in the project, for example:
    [​IMG] =\


    There must be a way to make the original plain shapes stand out in HD, making them look geometrically perfect with the needed volume and lightning (it's a shame that nobody has tried making them in 3D, like the Special Stage attempts). It could be a challenge, that's for sure, but adding stuff that wasn't there is like saying that the original designs needed fixing.



    I might be alone on this one, but I'd still like to see this project evolve while staying as faithful as possible to what we've been playing since 1992.
    [/quote]

    Like some have said before, I like the idea, but the execution seems off - It was always implicit, at least to me, that Sonic was "furry" in the first three games (1,2, and CD), but it was a bit more subtle. This can be seen more clearly in the Sonic CD opening, the OVA, or any of Ohshima's production art for the first two games, and I think that if you'd like to make that clearer in this, the HD remake, you'd probably find the best cues from those references, rather than making Sonic seem "rougher around the edges," as you've done here. Also, there's something - off, about the mouth.
     
  4. Sciz

    Sciz

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    That was a gag design to make a point. Read the rest of the topic thus far, that particular discussion has been resolved and essentially moved on to the Approved WIP topic.

    And we're paying attention to the production art, don't worry. :eng101:
     
  5. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
  6. scanline99

    scanline99

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    Man, the multiplayer. Such an important aspect, at least to me - one of the best multipayer games of its time. I see where test-object is coming from in terms of the squished imagery... Personally, I kinda like it for nostalgic purposes (and hell, back then, it was running in double the vertical resolution), but back then it was for technical reasons and now we can simply scale down correctly as necessary, or crop the players field of view. I have to say I'm not so sure about the overlapping idea - I don't see the point in restricting the player's view in that regard for the sake of a pretty picture in both corners.
     
  7. Vincent

    Vincent

    Sonic 2HD - Project Leader & Chara Member
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    This aspect, (16 players on screen) hinted on the second Tech Demo is something that still needs a proper discussion:

    Two player VS is certainly something we'd like to keep (without a stretched version of course!), but is it really worth developing a double screen version instead of one single screen for each player in an "online" play?

    The discussion is open. ^^
     
  8. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
    Wait, so what you are saying is that you need 2 of the same consoles to play multiplayer? This is blasphemy!
    I call a multiplayer broken if it doesn't feature playing in the same room AND online. Just imagine Smash Bros or Little Big Planet. Would you enjoy not being able to play with another person in the same room? Those are simply the fundamentals of multiplayer.

    Also, if you're intending zooming in and out as the 2nd player goes, I refuse. The camera would reveal too much of the level if the players took split paths. What good is a game if you know the obstacles?

    [/drama queen]
     
  9. Sciz

    Sciz

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    It's for the sake of maintaining the correct aspect ratio. Resident Evil 5 is doing the same thing with its co-op mode, IIRC. There's no way to split the screen without squishing or cropping the field of view otherwise.

    As for online 2P VS...

    It would be nice to make splitscreen available for the nostalgic value if it isn't too much extra work, and if the VS options menu has enough extra space for another setting that would only be available for that one specific situation. Overall I'd call it a low priority compared to the rest of multiplayer development.
     
  10. Elratauru

    Elratauru

    Little Shiny Emurralds Member
    [​IMG]

    Maybe, vertical off-centered?
     
  11. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Atomic Sonic Part II
    What the hell is wrong with split-widescreen?
     
  12. Sciz

    Sciz

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    That only works decently in widescreen, and even then not very well. Reducing horizontal FOV hurts a sidescrolling game much more than losing vertical FOV. Sonic N is proof enough of that.
     
  13. Vincent

    Vincent

    Sonic 2HD - Project Leader & Chara Member
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    Loving the drama quote! :D

    On a serious note,
    By not being stretched I mean of course two horizontal halves "downscaled properly" a la "Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

    My point of discussion is:
    "Any new mode could be later added", but which one deserves the most immediate attention in coding?

    I'd answer Online Multiplayer for the below reasons:

    -Nearly everyone uses Internet connections all over the world.
    -Many potential users would not be in the same city / country e/or would love to have a meeting for just one hour to play, without moving from house.
    -Player's lobby could be made to select friends to play with, each one having at disposal a "Full-Screen" to enjoy the experience with.
    -Lovers of original 2Player VS could anyway find the exact system ported.


    We'd love to discuss with everyone about this, just before setting a development roadmap for multiplayer system! ^^
     
  14. Elratauru

    Elratauru

    Little Shiny Emurralds Member
    Oh shit, you're right... I never thought of that...


    I think maybe online multiplayer would sustitute Sonic Robo Blast 2, remember? The Sonic game using the Doom engine?...Online it was awesome...and had a very great community...

    The online multiplayer should be awesome, but about lobbies, I think the "server" should be only as a tool for connect, lobbies and matches should be "hosted" in real time by players...

    Also, server tools for hosting your own server would be awesome.

    Long time ago we talked about the multiplayer complement, about 1P, 2P, 3P, teams, etc... That post was REALLY usefull.
     
  15. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Two-player split screen for physical two-player mode, single screen for online multiplayer.

    Sorted! :)
     
  16. Baby Ghost

    Baby Ghost

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    ...And a bar at the bottom of the screen with the player's heads to see the opponent's progress during the race? I feel that such a feature is essential because when playing local, you could just look up (or down, depending on which player you were) and see how far the other guy was. It'd suck to be running and not know if you're winning or how bad you're losing.
     
  17. muteKi

    muteKi

    Fuck it Member
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    But for 2-player split screen do we keep the levels at the squished aspect ratio or do we use the 1-player aspect ratio?

    If you consider the height of the grass of EHZ as compared to the other Sonic games you'll notice that it's about twice the height which is due to the fact that it gets horizontally squished in the 2-P mode; it was most certainly designed with this fact in mind. I played Sonic 2 in 2P far more often than in 1P mode, so I got used to it like that, and also compared to Sonic 1 and Sonic 3K it felt horizontally squished in 1P mode.

    However, this is at the expense of most of the other graphics in the game -- all character and object art.
    This is even more significant an issue if we intend to make 2-P mode possible on ALL levels of the game; most of them weren't designed for it so they would look squished as well.

    For people who have monitors at a resolution of 1280x480 or higher (yes, I know that's not a common desktop resolution but the point is that it's the minimum resolution for this to work) I suggest that there be the ability to have to windows with the levels for 2-P mode, perhaps with player 1's on the left and player 2's on the right. Since the resolution of the Genesis is 640x480 it would fit on that resolution or higher.

    However, there should be an option to change this in the game somewhere to the standard Genesis 2P mode display style for people who like it in that aspect ratio (again, I prefer EHZ like that) and especially for those who don't have a horizontal resolution of higher than 1280 pixels.

    Also, I agree with what Tweaker said for internet play though again the standard 2-P resolution should be an option, so as to see where that other player is; teleport monitors would SUCK if you didn't know where the other player was.
     
  18. Sciz

    Sciz

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    I was thinking the same thing, I just couldn't think of a game that actually used one off the top of my head for an example. Heads could get confusing with 4+ players though, since there just aren't that many characters. Probably better to implement a simple nametag system and display that instead.

    edit: I don't want to derail the current discussion, but I'd just like to say a little something. Please, continue discussing multiplayer, don't respond.

    I've spent the last week or so re-reading this entire thread. I lurked the Sonic research and hacking community for years and years before finally signing up when the first tech demo hit, and so naturally this entire project has been a source of fascination to me since it began. Following this thread as it happened as an outsider was as much of a rollercoaster ride for me as it must have been for the people arguing in it; the project held such potential, but it frequently seemed stagnant, if not prone to collapse at any moment.

    Having gone back and read through all of that again, I'm happy to report that at present, Sonic 2 HD has a stronger focus, better management, and a more constructive community than ever before. It'll take time, but I'm now confident that this project will be completed
    barring a very threatening cease & desist order
    , and it will be a professional quality effort. Just don't quit or vanish forever because of some real life concerns. That means you. Yes, you, in the chair. :)
     
  19. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
    How about adding a number to their heads?
     
  20. Exodus

    Exodus

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    It was mentioned amongst the staff that there could be some sort of colour co-ordination to distinguish between players; this also allows for multiple players playing the same character.
     
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