# General Project Thread & Feedback

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Vangar, Mar 8, 2008.

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1. ### JoseTB

Tech Member
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So you're saying there's no difference between the explanation of actual gamecode and the explanation of deduction based works when it comes to think about doing an engine that resembles the original thing. My point was simply that maybe hamburgers are more useful for this specific case.

2. ### Rolken

Tech Member
If you genuinely think the distinction between predetermined sine values and vector addition is one of tangible impact on the physics of a new engine, then I have nothing further to say, concede this silly line of discussion, and apologize for having brought up a page that is apparently hopelessly out of date.

3. ### Upthorn

TAS Tech Member
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Err, there is no difference. The predetermined sine values are the method used to break the vector into its x and y components so that it can be added to sonic's X and Y velocity values. I suppose vector addition may not be the mathematically correct term for this process but the end result is the same:
velocity0 + velocity1 = velocity2
The only difference that the precalculated sine table makes is that each value is the integer portion of (sin(x) * 256) rather than a full-precision decimal value, and so there are some slight discrepancies between using these and floating-point multiplication with proper sine values.

4. ### Yarharhar

Oldbie
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Hey guys,
This emulator isn't ready for a public release (it's a proof-of-concept build for the rendering technique basically - this means it is buggy, not using the external editor, etc). But, if people really want to take a look at it right now, just send me a PM and I'll give you a download link. Specify if you want the executable, source, or both. Keep in mind the GENS source is not commented in english, so it's not something you can just jump into (if you speak english of course).

5. ### JoseTB

Tech Member
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I wasn't talking about tangible impacts, but about the accuracy to guide in terms of comparison with the actual code of the engine. But I realize that might not be as relevant for everyone as it is for me, so I will leave it in there. My apologies if somebody found my opinion to be offensive, I didn't mean to underestimate the research done in that guide either.

Back on topic, I believe most people would find the proof of concept interesting Yarharhar, go ahead and post it even if it's not that much yet

6. ### Athelstone

Oldbie
Thanks, but unfortunately I simply don't have the time to work on a project like this. Like all of you though, I would definitely love to see this happen. It's really excellent to see snapshots of remastered sprites that you guys are working on - super sonic is looking great. If you have the time and the passion to continue, that's great - maybe something will happen.

One thing I will caution against though, is working alone. I know that for people reading this it might be tempting to want to dazzle everyone and work on a project like this all by yourself. Though in truth, many hands make light work. Working on your own is an unnecessary burden. This is why I have frequently encouraged projects like Retro Sonic and Pro Sonic to collaborate. The job will get done not only faster, but much more efficiently if you guys work together. Working in collaboration also allows constructive criticism from your colleagues. I think this thread is proof that many individuals in this community have a lot to offer. Leadership from an intelligent person who can work with others, accept constructive criticism and has the time and passion for this, though, is required.

7. ### True Dude

Member
Rather than do Sonic 2, it'd be great to see this as an all-around genesis HD project. (Such as Ristar HD, Sonic 3 HD, etc.)

8. ### PsychoSk8r

PsychedelAnt | Tone Turner Oldbie
2,638
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Birmingham, UK
30 Day Project: Revisited.A New Release!
That would take up too much time. For now we should continue with Sonic 2, then other games like ristar, as this project is going to take a while.

9. ### 87th

FOX HOUNDER Member
I vote that someone does Gunstar Heroes when all Sonic games have been HD'd.

10. ### True Dude

Member
Actually, considering Sonic Eraser doesn't have very many sprites, you could do that alongside Sonic 2.

11. ### Endgame

Formerly The Growler Member
Well I don't know about any of you, but I'd be happy if we only just had Sonic in HD, and just forget about the rest! [for the time being, of course]

I'm wondering what Tails would look like in HD [since he's the 2nd main character on Sonic 2] :D

12. ### JoseTB

Tech Member
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Eh, no, his animated palette is not generated but hardcoded - it's not random at all.

13. ### Mr. Fox

Member
I mean he can be ANY color on ANY of his frames. You can't premade his flashing.

For example you can premade springs, one yellow and one red, so you make 2 highres versions, for each of them. But this technique is impossible with Supersonic.

Or there's another way to get round palettes?

14. ### drx

mfw Researcher
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:rolleyes:
I've worked on porting Sonic 1 to PC before, I might resume my work (probably from scratch this time) after I finish some other stuff. This could or could not help this project =P

15. ### Tweaker

Banned
What are you talking about? Rotating palettes are hardcodedâ€”there is no "random."

16. ### JoseTB

Tech Member
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Heck, how many people is working on that these days? =P I don't feel like disclosing details early, but yeah, mine got to a playable point and everything.

Back on topic: Since the super sonic pallete is fixed, the options are:

1) To duplicate the super sonic animation 10 times, one for each palette animation frame
2) Given an engine that can manipulate graphics at a low level system, it would be possible to mimic animated "palette" systems even on 32 bits bitmaps.

Both would involve work, but possibly the later would be less "ugly".

17. ### Mr. Fox

Member
I.e. he can be bright yellow when he's running, jumping, w/e. If we gonna make separate highres versions for each palette it won't work this way. We can make springs (one yellow and one red), waterfalls, etc, but Supersonic can be any color of his rotating palette on any of his frames. Did you get it? Maybe I'm talking bullshit if Yarharr's method to get round palettes limitation is different.

The only one working method is to make lots and lots of versions of his frames for each color. It'd require lots of memory though. Not feasible, I guess.

18. ### Hivebrain

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What about putting another sprite on top of Super Sonic that's completely white, only covers the yellow areas and varies in opacity?

19. ### Endgame

Formerly The Growler Member
Or how about just re-write the code for the flashing colours [and work around that] - if it's possible/allowed?

The 'sunset' mod springs to mind here

20. ### jman2050

Teh Sonik Haker Tech Member
You know, you could just implement a palette system regardless. 32-bit color doesn't mean you have to forgo palettes altogether, and in fact it'd be kind of dumb to do so for this type of game.