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General Project Thread & Feedback

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Vangar, Mar 8, 2008.

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  1. Athelstone

    Athelstone

    Oldbie
    I think I am going to have to keep reminding people to please refer to the original HD concept that we are basing this project on:

    http://alchemistdefined.wiredotaku.com/ima...HD-BBs-wall.jpg

    The moving Earth in the backgound, for example, is something that is going to require hardware acceleration. For Emerald Hill, we might also want some 3d clouds moving in the background as opposed to simply redrawing the clouds at a higher resolution. The same goes for the moving clouds in the Hill Top Zone.
    http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/8154/sprite63ri1.gif

    Taxman, what is your opinion on the feasability of the idea that has been proposed of a custom built engine which directly ports all the assets from Sonic 2 with everything intact? I was always under the impression that the whole point of your level development kit was that it already did that, though Tweaker and jman are suggesting that there is an easier way.

    Also, is there a reason why you haven't ported the physics from the sonic 2 dissasembly, as jman has been suggesting?

    I really value your thoughts on this because you, along with Stealth, are the only individuals in the last 6 years or so to have actually produced a Sonic engine that closely resembles the original games.
     
  2. Jayextee

    Jayextee

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    I DONE MAKED GAMES.
    Would this mean portable code? One of my laptops is running OS X Leopard. XD

    I've given a little thought (Whilst attempting, still, to recreate EHZ tiles at 4x and look good) to how the graphics should be handled. Now, as we have seen from the EHZ grass, there are a lot of flat, plain areas where we will most likely want some texturing to break up the flat areas of screen. However, the nature of the 8x8 tiles means that there is A LOT of repetition. What's the likelihood of instead, re-displaying the 256x256 chunks[/b]?

    I ask this, because feasibly it is to my mind the ONLY way we're going to get some nice organic-looking grass in EHZ, since there is a particular 'two-green' area that I'm sure is the same tile repeated over and over.

    Hardware acceleration was mentioned, also: YES.

    Am I the only person who would like so see nice, GLOWING explosions (HD Sprites with added coronas, which can be turned off for purists) from Eggman's craft, when vanquished?
     
  3. The Taxman

    The Taxman

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    My Retro-Sonic dev kit can import level data automatically including collisions and the like, but the objects and bosses within the levels need to scripted. It'd take about the same time to transfer a level to the Retro-Sonic engine or a Port of the Sonic 2 engine, since the objects would have to be ported in both cases. The difference is the object code in the Retro-Sonic would be stored as scripts, whereas a direct port would have the objects hard coded.

    Doing an exact port of Sonic 2 isn't too difficult, it would be more down to if someone can be bothered going through the dissassembly and translating it all. It's something I'm not interested in doing myself but full respect to anyone who does.

    I've always stuck to my own code with Retro-Sonic because I don't want to have any legal issues with using naka's code. Plus it's a matter of pride too, I like to program creatively instead of code monkey business. Not having a disassembly around when I started Retro-Sonic gave me a chance to play around and learn how things should work for myself. Of course it's not going to be 100% perfect, but the latest revision will be pretty darn close. I've been double checking the various values of the player physics in the disassembly (man I'm sick of typing that word), but I'll never directly copy code from it.

    I realise most people will want an exact replica down to the little glitch nuances with collision (which don't exist in the 2008 Retro-Sonic revision because I worked on a more reliable system that wouldn't be possible on the MD due to processor limitations) so I'm not forcing anyone to use the Retro-Sonic engine, it's merely a loose suggestion since it's already been well established and would save having to do the whole shebang from scratch.
     


  4. It seems to me the problem with doing separate 256x256 mappings is that it'll a) be lots more work since there's way more to draw and b) it takes a lot more space to store the mappings separately rather than as composites of 16x16 mappings. I don't know whether space is an issue, but certainly having that much more to draw could be tedious.
     
  5. P.P.A.

    P.P.A.

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    Slightly off-topic: Taxman, will there be an option in Retro-Sonic (was the - always there?) to switch to Sonic CD physics (which are similar to S1's)? I'd miss my aerial speedcap.
     
  6. GHNeko

    GHNeko

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    Hybrid Souls Card Game
    If we are talking about porting this project to different systems, would DC be something viable? Because I'm pretty sure it should be.
     
  7. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    The Dreamcast isn't HD though, it's only 640x480ish.
     
  8. SephyUK

    SephyUK

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    If you manage to make this work on PS3, I will come to each and every one of your houses and kiss your feet. God damn, that would be good.

    Anyway, one thing I don't think I have seen anything about is possibly a level editor. That sounds like it might be a great addon for the game.
    And has anyone produced any graphics for Eggman yet? I don't mind having a crack at one or two.
     
  9. amphobius

    amphobius

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    I'll see if I can work on Silver Sonic, should be hilarious how it results.
     
  10. muteKi

    muteKi

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    So I had this great thought about the final boss music -- what if we did it like in Super Mario Galaxy?

    Like have the boss music include like some sort of vocal ahhs and chanting when he's on the ground and then have it cut out while he's in the air. Maybe something like this:

    1. Marching on the ground (first thing he does when you start fighting him) add some sort of chanting, though I don't know if trying to keep it in time with his feet would be possible.
    2. In the air. Vocals cut out entirely.
    3. Throwing the arms at you. Choir ahhs.

    Also, underwater versions of Chemical Plant and Aquatic Ruin would be cool, again like in SMG.


    Anybody know anything about the feasibility of such an option?
     
  11. In Super Mario Galaxy, my understanding is that the boss music is a fusion of MIDI and audio. The regular piece is sequenced I believe, and then the choir samples (and maybe the whole track at that point) were recorded and mixed in for when you've burned Bowser. In other words, it's an actual choir, not a sample, so if you have access to a choir then yes, it might be feasible.

    Underwater versions of Chemical Plant and Aquatic Ruin are in theory much easier and more viable. You could just slap on a low-pass filter to simulate the scattering of higher frequencies so that only the lower ones get through. It would not surprise me if this is exactly how they did it in SMG.
     
  12. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    I don't like the idea of mixing 2D and 3D elements together like that. Fluid 2D animation will look loads better than any 3D model that you could think to render, especially when it comes to the cartoonish style that is prevalent in Sonic games. The original games made them look just fine in 2D—we can do the same here.

    Also, in regards to the music, I'm not liking these ideas. This is Sonic 2 HD, not Super Sonic the Hedgehog: 2nd Strike Turbo HD Remix Alpha 3. We want to keep everything as faithful as possible, which means using arrangements that don't deviate too far from the originals (as I've been doing), and the original sound effects. Anything else is extra and completely unnecessary.
     
  13. Endgame

    Endgame

    Formerly The Growler Member
    Just a quick question regarding "HD":

    Does it matter about what the screen resolution would [aught to?] be for doing this HD remake? I suppose depending on how well it's HD'd, it'd be slightly different seeing it in a different resolution.

    I'm guessing when we speak in terms of "HD", it would also include the same resolutions as a HDTV outputs have - to give it its best results.


    Just wondering if this factor needs to be addressed at all, for this to be truly "HD"?
     
  14. Skaarg

    Skaarg

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    I actually think it'd be pretty nice if we could support 4:3 and 16:10 screens for this.
     
  15. Well, since the original hardware renders at 320x240 (4:3), I think we're going to stick with a multiple of that for development purposes. It looks like 1280x960 (4:3) is what we're shooting for, but this is of course neither a standard monitor nor HD display resolution. Those would be 1280x720 (widescreen 16:9) for TVs or 1280x1024 (5:4) for monitors. On a computer I assume that 1280x1024 is fine and there'll just be bands above and below the display. On a TV you might need to shift to a 4:3 display to have it work right (or you display at 1920x1080 and have borders all around).

    EDIT: If somebody wants to code support for other aspect ratios, that's all well and good, I just don't think it'll help us while developing the game.
     
  16. [​IMG]
    My stab, needs more work, but it's some progress, right?
     
  17. djdocsonic

    djdocsonic

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    Will you guys be including Hidden Palace or will you just be replicating Sonic 2 Final?
     
  18. <!--quoteo(post=189896:date=Apr 22 2008, 07:33 PM:name=djdocsonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (djdocsonic @ Apr 22 2008, 07:33 PM) [​IMG]
     
  19. JcFerggy

    JcFerggy

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  20. Bibin

    Bibin

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    Sound for CPZ underwater; This is a demo on how I think it should sound underwater.

    http://theantibib.sitesled.com/CPZdemo.mp3

    The only problem is that to do that in realtime would take up quite a bit of processing power. We could have it run two tracks at once, one with the effects applied and one without, and it could mute and raise the two depending on whether or not the player is underwater. A bit of ambient underwater sounds is a good thing to have in there to get the whole "underwater" thing across.
     
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