General Project Thread & Feedback

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Vangar, Mar 8, 2008.

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  1. Athelstone

    Athelstone

    Oldbie
    I agree, I think the levels are just going to look rather dull if we rely only on colours and shading without any textures.

    I think the texture you have on your blocks there is pretty good LSH, it's not too harsh and it doesn't interfere with the aesthetic of emerald hill in my view. Perhaps it could be improved, but I'm not yet sure how. Now the grass needs some sort of attention.

    EDIT: Also, I just had a look at the original sprites for emerald hill, there seems to be two layers of shadows casted by the grass above, the lower shadow being lighter than the above.
     
  2. muteKi

    muteKi

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    I do agree though that just putting grass textures on isn't a good idea, especially since the art that's being textured has a bladed appearance to it already. Rather than do that I think it would be a better idea to borrow from the Advances or something for an idea on a grass texture, because otherwise it looks lame.

    I don't really like the new appearance for the tiles under the grass either, that love.self.hate did. They still have a sort of lazy "I did this fast in photoshop" type of feel to them and don't give the sort of feel I would like at least, which isn't so much for it to look overly realistic. I would like it to look mostly clean and uniform, like it was the whole 3D-generated type of thing.
     
  3. I still wish we had an emulator so that we could step back and take a look at things in their overall context. The programmers undoubtedly had to put together a lot of elements to see what wasn't working, so maybe once we're able to put a lot of elements together we can better see what doesn't work well.

    LSH, I don't think the grass texture is really adding anything to that redrawing. To me it looks very much dominated by the original form and that the texture would not be very noticeable ingame anyway. I think you should definitely go ahead and re-imagine it so we have different take. One thing I'd like to bring up is the color scheme of the grass itself. Do we want to keep the distinct two-color high-contrast look of the original or do we want more colors for additional variation? There's something distinctly "Sonic" about the two-color look that we might lose, but I think it's worth exploring more color variation to overcome the "ugliness" of the original.
     
  4. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Just what I was thinking, and also the grass on top might look a bit too round.

    Still, it's the best effort so far, well done.
     
  5. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Yeah, in regards to the redrawing thus far, I imagined that the whole idea was to re-imagine it—this way, you remain faithful to the original design concept, but you still have something that looks more modern, and more fit for a larger screen resolution.
     
  6. PsychoSk8r

    PsychoSk8r

    PsychedelAnt | Tone Turner Oldbie
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    30 Day Project: Revisited.A New Release!
    Personally, I'd say go with the textures.
    Even with shading, it's still going to look pretty bland. What about getting rid of the top surface grass (which will look rather smooth at 4x), and replacing with a more Blade-like texture, similar to Hitaxas' idea.

    Also, love.self.hate has the right idea.
     
  7. Retro_Stew

    Retro_Stew

    French Twitch Gamer Member
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  8. Athelstone

    Athelstone

    Oldbie
    We need to look at the levels for it then rather than the character sprites.
     
  9. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    We need more people to actually contribute art instead of just trying to control the project.

    =P
     
  10. Athelstone

    Athelstone

    Oldbie
    I'm sorry, I meant "ought", not need.

    I'm not trying to control anything, really, I'm just offering some ideas for the project.
     
  11. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    In my oppinion, that frame is one of the few things that look good in that game. =|

    From what I've seen, not only they did some horrid things for the backgrounds (replacing a lot of stuff completely), but they also re-invented the human anatomy for some characters.

    The new King Of Fighters should be a good example to follow.
     
  12. Iapetus

    Iapetus

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    I have read through 80% of this thread and someone caught my attention when he/she suggested making this project like SF2HD. As a recognized member of Shoryuken forums (the leading voice in the changes made in SF2HD and home of David Sirlin's Evolution competition) and one whose expressed ideas have been implemented as new features for SF2HD, I would like to throw my two cents into this project.

    In a word - Please do NOT use SF2HD as a model. Sirlin made the mistake of thinking redrawing all the art would be a quick project. He was so wrong in fact, that he later had to resort to using 4 shades on every single sprite as opposed to the more detailed 8. Info here. http://blog.capcom.com/archives/998

    In the article, he mentions what was known before by SF fans but I'll reiterate - They outsourced key frames to Udon; subsidiary company then drew the rest, using Udon's key frames as references. This turned into a bloody mess that created a lot of inconsistencies in frames. Not only that, but there was (still is) an uproar over the overall style of the game. Prior, SF2 was known as a dark yet slightly bright and goofy game. Now, it looks like the sequel to Street Fighter Alpha, using really bright contrasting colors, few shades and over muscular anatomy. Look at the first frame of Ken's Hadouken pose and you will see his thumb has four joints and his muscles go wherever the artist felt like it.

    The point: this is now a REINTERPRETATION of the game. Not only that, but because they took so long drawing, they managed to create a Remix mode. This doesn't hurt most people, but for a tourney goer like myself, that means the only way to compete is to play Remix mode, as Evo has officially endorsed that mode of play for Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, not classic.

    I digress, but the point is clear. It was already mentioned that the best method for recreating this game in HD is looking at each frame individually and using that as the reference for the HD art, not an interpretation. I don't mean to say we can't make changes - any change that the majority of this community agrees upon should be accepted. That is the beauty of a community-based hack, after all. For example, I don't like the fact Sonic has a smile in these frames, but mostly everyone else does and that is great. These are small nuance changes and as long as we all have the same theme in mind, I think everyone can be happy.

    Sorry for the long post. Keep up the hard work everyone!

    Iapetus
     
  13. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    I personally think that one of the good things about this project not being something official, is that it can be kept open, improving the stuff that people don't think looked too good, or just releasing new skins for everything as they keep coming, so we can just choose whatever we like more. This way, we could have different sets for drawn and computer generated backgrounds, characters with different styles, etc.

    So it would be a good idea to keep this in known, replaceable (and editable) formats. This way, for example, you could just remove Sonic's mouth if you don't like how it looks.
     
  14. Vincent

    Vincent

    Sonic 2HD - Project Leader & Chara Member
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  15. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    I seriously disagree with putting a texture on the grass. If anything, the grass should look more like real grass than be overlaid with semi-transparent grass textures.
     
  16. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Pasting the grass texture over the green parts, then tilting the vertical lines and changing too much stuff would be a bit like replacing the Green Hill squares with a rock texture, which would make it look nothing like what we remember it being... Let's stick with the original look, please. =|
    (Editted for clarification)


    EDIT 2: I think love.self.hate is doing it quite nicely, but I'd try to make it look more "clean", without much textures where they weren't in the first place.
     
  17. Fred

    Fred

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    So I was just sitting at this chair, you see, and had nothing to do, right? So what do I do? I grab an EHZ 128x128 and start pumping it up pixel by pixel. Soon enough, I had something like this:

    [​IMG]

    This was going really cool until I noticed this was really really boring. And then I also realise that the way I started drawing the grass wasn't going to work simply because I wasn't paying any attention to the 8x8s that would repeat the same pattern over and over. Maybe tomorrow I'll pick this up, keep that in mind and start the grass over.

    For comparison's sake, here's the original 128x128 and a nearest-neighbour downscaled version of my WIP. One after another over and over again so you don't immediately know which is which, muahahaha:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  18. Quickman

    Quickman

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    Can I just say that I really like the look of those bricks?
     
  19. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    A bumpy pattern might help on the rocks, sort of like how love.self.hate did with the Alex Kidd picture. It seems a bit too unrealistically smooth at the moment, and not even shiny plastic like you'd expect it to be in that style.
     
  20. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    I like love.self.hate's better, these shades look a bit odd to me.
     
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