<!--quoteo(post=427457:date=Mar 18 2010, 04:37 AM:name=saxman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (saxman @ Mar 18 2010, 04:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=427457"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=427198:date=Mar 17 2010, 04:28 PM:name=kazade)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kazade @ Mar 17 2010, 04:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=427198"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=427170:date=Mar 17 2010, 07:20 PM:name=Hamneggs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamneggs @ Mar 17 2010, 07:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=427170"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=427155:date=Mar 17 2010, 12:34 PM:name=kazade)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kazade @ Mar 17 2010, 12:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=427155"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First, I'll introduce myself. I'm a software developer, I've been hanging around on these forums for a long time now admiring the artwork and the enthusiasm of the community and waiting to hear about what is going on with the engine, because being a programmer, I'd be curious to see the code. Kazade<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It really sounds like if you got your hands on the code, you would work wonders with it. For your information, it has been said—somewhere, at least—that the current engine is a cleaned up, ported version of the S3&K engine. Perhaps you could use your 20 trial member posts sparingly and PM the Core Team, namely LoSt. and get your fingerprints on this project. If you could work your way in, maybe you could make the changes the rest of us are fighting for. That would almost make you our Ben Franklin if I'm not mistaken. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately I don't have time to commit myself to the project at the moment. If the staff did open up everything then of course I'd contribute patches, fix bugs etc. when I could. That said, even if I did have time, absorbing another member into the S2HD staff clique isn't going to solve the issue, I find it unlikely that a new member would have much of a say. LoSt, if you are reading, I'd love to know your reasons for keeping the source closed, I fail to see how it brings you any benefit. Opening the source would give you testers and more developers and would result in cleaner, better, more stable code and faster development. It would also allow for a whole array of new projects based on the code, even different games with different characters (look at OpenArena, AlienArena, Tremulous etc. all based on Quake 3 which was open sourced). You open it, you open up a load of possibilities, you keep it closed and it will never be as good as it could have been. So to sum it up, if it was open I (and likely many others) would contribute, as it's closed I won't. Until that changes I'll resume my silent watching. P.S. How do I stop the 20 post limit? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is a complete snub in my opinion. I'm sure you didn't want to come off that way, so I'm telling you it very much did. L0st has a right to his code. It should not be questioned. That's like asking me why I don't open my house up to everyone so they can see everything. The way I see it, it's a privacy issue. It's his. This is not a community project in the traditional sense, I think that should be rather obvious at this point. And why is that a bad thing? It's lead by a team that would like some others to contribute or give suggestions and such. That doesn't mean they have to accept everything or let you see everything they're doing. It's not fair to expect that of them. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOst does have a right to his code, but this is supposedly a community project, how can someone contribute to the engine if they can't see the code? What I'm saying is that LOst must have a reason to not take advantage of all the benefits opening the code would bring. So, I'll ask again, LOst would you mind sharing your reasons why you believe keeping the code closed will be more beneficial than opening it? Is it a general fear that you'll lose control of the code? <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And this doesn't have to do with the issues of "how" people can contribute, or the lack of communication, or whatever. If you want to address that, that's fine. But I think you're expecting too much, and it would annoy me greatly if someone told me "unless you make everything you're doing open to the public, I'm not helping you." I'd just laugh at the person and go on. It's fine to disagree with things, but being perceived as "needy" or "demanding" makes everything you posted irrelevent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Show me how to contribute code and I'll help like I said. Joining in with the staff and not paying attention the community is not an option for me, I'm sure there are other programmers hovering around that would contribute if it was easy to. About my post being irrelevant, well, I've posted my advice, you guys can take it or disregard it, that's your prerogative. But I'd like to think what I said had some effect on the announcement Canned Karma just posted. As it is I don't have time to join as a full time member. I have a bunch of other responsibilities that I've been letting slip recently (like running <a href="http://nehe.gamedev.net/" target="_blank">http://nehe.gamedev.net/</a> and reviewing articles for <a href="http://www.gamedev.net/" target="_blank">http://www.gamedev.net/</a> and helping to fix bugs in the upcoming Ubuntu 10.04 release, and fixing the DirectDraw surface ref-counting in Wine and I have my own personal projects on top of that - just in case you wanted evidence for my "snub"). Also, to whomever it was that said "this is a professional project now and should be closed" - erm, yeah sure, because open projects are never professional (e.g. Apache, Linux, Wine etc. etc.). sigh. @Canned Karma - Thanks for the announcement, definitely looks like a step in the right direction to me. Nice one! (Although my reservations about the closed source engine still stand) I'll continue to hover around the forums, I might even attempt some artwork when time permits (I can basically find my way around Inkscape).