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Game OverThinker looks at Sonic

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by RGamer2009, Apr 15, 2009.

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  1. Machenstein


    I really don't think Sega should be forced to associate every future Sonic game with all the previous games if it means the series has to maintain an on-going storyline. It shouldn't even be a priority at this point. It should be so less of a priority to Sega that they would have no need to announce a "series reboot" if they were to start over with a new interpretation of the series. They are free to do so without publicly disowning the previous games.

    For example, Shadow. The writers don't have to kill off Shadow, but he doesn't have to be shoehorned in every Sonic game if only to cement Sonic Heroes and Shadow's game in the series continuity. The truth is Sonic Team can do anything they want with the character. They have already shown that with the Shadow game. They can stop using him, keep using him, or reintroduce the character altogether.

    Sonic Team can take the series all the way back to South Island and it still wouldn't necessarily be a series reboot of any kind. That's not to say it would be an extension of the current series either.
  2. Squints


    All souped-up. And DESECRATED! Member
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    As for this guy's ideas on how to revive the franchise, I completely agree. The only part in either video that I disagreed with was his opinions of Shadow and Sonic Adventure 2. He seemed to think that Shadow was never good, and that SA2 was inherently bad because of that. Shadow was a fine character in SA2; it was only after that that he got old. By coming back from a heroic sacrifice, he automatically wore out his welcome.

    But that doesn't ultimately matter, because I agree that the supporting cast needs to be put down (preferable quietly and offstage). In fact, I would have thought that even Amy, Knux, and maybe even Tails should go, but he has good ideas on how to use them. Maybe Shadow can come back at some point as an influence on or conglomeration with a new Metal Sonic—but not as a major character. A minor but recognizable recurring enemy/henchman, like Dark Link.
  3. Vaiyt


    Oglio p'ru çeu Member
    The story of the series is such a convoluted mess at this point anyway. There is no consistence whatsoever between the 3D games, be it in plot, art direction, world-building or tone.
  4. RingoKoi


    getting to know palette and music hacking
    This maybe one of the only sonic re-think videos I actually agree with, kill all the supporting characters, nuke all of the human civilization in sonic games, and add a backstory to the game, unfortunately, sega will never watch this, instead they'll be making another yearly sonic game. :eng101: , it's a shame.
  5. DigitalDuck


    Arriving four years late. Member
    Lincs, UK
    TurBoa, S1RL
    I agree with some of the points about future games, but like everyone else, I disagree about the characters.

    So, in the current Sonicverse, there are loads of characters. There's no need to kill any off, as long as SEGA stop adding more. Sonic needs to be in every Sonic game (obviously), as does Tails, Knuckles, and Dr. Robotnik. Other supporting characters can make appearances, as long as it's limited to one or two per game, making a maximum of six characters per game. There's no need to have EVERY SINGLE FRIGGIN' CHARACTER IN EVERY SINGLE FRIGGIN' GAME. Have main four and Shadow for one game, but leave him out next time and have Mighty (bring him back!) and maybe Blaze. Moderation, SEGA.
  6. RedStripedShoes


    And I'm gone again. Member
    Or just make everyone except SonicTailsKnucklesAmyRobotnik NPC's who can only speak through text and have no purpose except to populate hub worlds.
  7. muteKi


    Fuck it Member
    Well, yes. The only issue I have with adding characters every game is that too many of them are usually made playable. Thankfully some of the more recent titles, barring the amigo efforts in that one title, have had such an issue.
  8. Ayla


    I shat on your desk ^^ Oldbie
    West Linn, OR
    Hacking Contest, StH Overlooked, Personal Indie game
    I agree with just about all of it. Sonic Adventure 1 WAS the last good Sonic game. Adventure 2 was good, but it was the beginning of the end. I'm not going to deny I was severely disappointed. This is what I said on youtube:
    Keep the main goal to get through the level fast. Even throw in a time attack emblem. The others however, make them missions, maybe even something similar to the find the missing chao emblem in Sonic Adventure 2. This would create optional emblems based on exploration of a vast 3d world, but maintain the speed aspect that's central to Sonic the Hedgehog.
  9. Spatula


    too cool for old school Member
    Personally, I think sticking to the formula of simply running fast is the way to go. The trick is to add innovative little mechanics that keep it fresh. How do you do that?

    1) Clever bosses.
    2) Original levels. The theme doesn't have to be original, just the shape of the obstacles.
    3) Provide ample opportunities for leveling up.

    Have more barrier shields, and have all of them give Sonic a new attack. Heck, allow him to hold more than 1 at the same time.
    -spikes. Good god a shield that protects from spikes is overdue.
    -earth maybe? A shield that lets him dig through hidden pathways
    -a shield that doubles points
    -a shield that doubles rings
    -magnetic boots

    endless possibilities

    For that matter, the magnetic boots could allow him to run up certain surfaces. The propeller would give him normal speed underwater.... so on.

    The shields don't get dropped between acts or stages(!). You can use one at a time, but possibly hold 10 at a time. Pressing some button would toggle the shield swap.
  10. Rokkan


    Simply running fast is a good formula but it's not perfect. Give the player the freedom to both run incredibly fast and to explore the stage in a Sonic 3/Sonic CD kind of way though, is a great one. Personally I prefer the air Sonic 3 method. CD level design granted you a lot of freedom to explore, but sometimes exploring the stage didn't give you shit in return, and without exploring and only focusing in speed, levels were pretty linear and too short. Sonic 3 though, was impossible to do Time Attacks because stages were just so long. What I propose then is a Sonic 3 level-design, but with Sonic Unleashed-like shortcuts (and Sonic Unleashed speed, except that slowed-down some, so that stage-building won't be hard and too long). Shortcuts and alternative ways very hard to achieve, but when most of them are achieved, you can end the stage in about 2 minutes. Going through "the normal way" would make you end the stage in 4-5 minutes. And exploring to get to Special Stages/Alternative eras of the stage/Destroy the capsule thing thus destroying all badniks/etc would make you end it in 6-8 minutes or more.

    I do agree that they should come back with the power-ups: Elemental shields, Speed Sneakers, etc. But this shield thing you're proposing is...
    Ugh, just cannot work.
    In Megamix, the whole having a lot of shield things made the game a ton easier, imagine this proposal. Hold 10 shields at a time? Countless shields to use AND not lose them between acts or stages? Talk about an easy game to break through, man.
  11. RedStripedShoes


    And I'm gone again. Member
    What if one powerup was a shield, and the rest provided special abilities without shielding you from damage? Also, you had to wait 10 seconds after switching to switch again.

    "Hm, I have to go through this trap-filled corridor next. There's a 50 Ring powerup above the exit, but I need my flame dash to get it. Do I want to risk 73 rings and my flame dash to get that powerup, or should I keep my shield powerup on to protect myself when going through the corridor?"
  12. Rokkan


    Still looks complicated, unnecessary and an offers an uber, easier experience, IMO.
    What would be nice is a Bonus Stage in the end of the Act/Zone, in which would grant you one or two powerups for you to use whenever you want in the next Act/Zone only. But only really skilled players would actually get two or more powerups inside the Bonus Stage (by getting more, at the end of the Special Stage, you can choose only two for you to keep).
  13. Spatula


    too cool for old school Member
    I don't know... there could be more areas that are impossible to access without certain items to compensate. Shield TVs could be kept sparse most of the time, and badnik density could be ramped up.

    No reason it has to be easier simply because your character is stronger.
  14. The Pulse

    The Pulse

    You know the whole "Unleashed-fast Sonic = Need longer levels" problem? A simple solution to that is to just use all that extra mapping to make big, seamless worlds. That way, you would only need one big intertwining map for each level, with a hub, two or more acts, and awesome-secret-walk-through-wall shit. I mean, you know that one level in Rooftop Run? the one where there's no ground and you can see for literally miles? All that mapping could have gone to levels of their own.

    If my logic is flawed, please remember I know basically shit about 3D game programming. I'm just talking out of my ass here, really.
  15. RedStripedShoes


    And I'm gone again. Member
    The main problem lies in the fact that rendering graphics and programming level elements are entirely different elements, though they reside on the same plane in the final product. Also, when you see a vista stretching on for miles, they take a lot of shortcuts to pull off that look, so all those beautiful graphics are only made to look good from far away.

    Now Jak and Daxter (the 1st one) did something to make what felt like a seamless world. They created long paths so that when the player traversed from one area to another, the game could unload the previous level, and load the next level, all while the player was still playing. The rest of the trilogy went for less impressive solution of locking the player in a room (airlock, elevator, etc.) while the levels loaded. So the concept you're giving is possible, but to do it, you need to split the world into sections and split them with transition areas which the player must pass through to allow new sections to load, while occasionally using the moving room tactic of Jak II and Jak 3 (hey, looking at the shrinking city skyline from a glass elevator is still impressive, regardless of not being able to move).

    EDIT: Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but I've been feeling very wordy today.
  16. The Pulse

    The Pulse


    Well I'm not exactly talking about going directly from one zone to another seamlessly so much as having just one streamed map for each individual zone so that you can go from a hub to an act to an open area with little visible loading.
  17. RedStripedShoes


    And I'm gone again. Member
    Well, each zone is split into acts, right? And each act needs its own section, right?

    Quid pro quo, ad nauseum, and other random latin phrases. ;)
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