"Dust Hill" meaning researched

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Sonic Hachelle-Bee, Sep 8, 2004.

  1. Sonic Hachelle-Bee

    Sonic Hachelle-Bee

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    I wanted to make a research on the Internet about the meaning of the words "Dust Hill" and "Hill of Dust" to see what I can find and what the other people think about this.
    With a lot of objectivity and without any existence of Sonic and Sega, or their related levels, there is the results I found all over the Internet, all over the world:

    Extract "Faliraki Rhodes Hotels Uncovere":
    (Faliraki is a city near the bay of Kallithea in Rhodes, Greece)

    "(...) the pool is of a average size next to a hill of dust and cactus with excellent views of the building sites. the bar was a hot and dusty little hut with a tv you couldnt watch as the owners sons sat all day with there hands on the remote. it is also VERY EXPENSIVE. A bag of crisps and a can of coke costing 3E 50C/?3. it also took 4 days and a complaint for us to get our linen changed and bin emptied. (yes the toilet bin) it not nice at all. there are also resident chickens living in the small garden. good alarm clocks if you get up at 6am.?
    we found the staff to be loud and unhelpfull. (...)"
    http://www.holidaysuncovered.co.uk/holiday..._faliraki_a.htm

    Extract from Peace Corp Online-December 1st:

    "(...) My forehead resting on the window glass, I try to concentrate on the paper-thin moon following me out of Kerak and the mysterious black cloud resting next to it. A moving figure in blue holds a child?s hand; they?re looking toward bundles of Bedouin tents settled in a sea of sand. Scenery changes so quickly here, from the smallest concrete home on a hill of dust to rows of olive trees surrounding a grandiose mansion. Should I absorb everything I can, watching each object that passes by the car window, since it?s probably the last time I will ever see it? Or should I close my eyes, pretend this isn?t real, and try to focus on still being in Jordan? (...) "

    Extract of an article, The Examiner-World tour-13:

    "(...) Hundreds of rescuers worked night and day, digging away the hill of dust and shards by the clattering bucketful rather than move in heavy machinery where there might be victims.
    The six floor building collapsed early Thursday morning, trapping 70 to 75 people (...)"

    Canyon Country, Adventure cyclists tame the 'beast' on White Rim Trail.
    Read the full article here: http://www.coloradoanticket.com/xplore/archive/t011302.html

    "(...) At the bottom we let out a sigh and continued riding. It would be our longest day and we needed to get to our campsite at Potato Bottom by dark. We passed one camping area and then later in the afternoon another. Then in front of us appeared our first uphill test. We named it the "hill of dust or sand". We ended up having to team up and push each rig together for much of this hill. It was tough going. At the top we were rewarded with a beautiful high traverse over to our camp area for the night. (...)"
    [​IMG]
    Others images:
    http://home.tele2.fr/s2long/screenshots/DH...e/Colorado1.jpg
    http://home.tele2.fr/s2long/screenshots/DH...e/Colorado3.jpg

    Random images and photos, with their names:

    EricPeterDustHill.jpg
    [​IMG]

    RunnerOnDustHill.jpg
    [​IMG]

    DustStorm.jpg
    [​IMG]

    Dust.jpg
    [​IMG]

    Other links to some images:
    HillDust.jpg
    SecondHill.jpg
    WhatDust.jpg

    Obviously, this proves absolutely nothing about the desert level, but now, you know what some others think about the words "Dust Hill"...
    Another word: I found nothing about caves, BUT I read (In a French magazine) "travailler dans ces collines de poussi?re..." ("work in these dust hills...") talking about workers in a mine of Diamonds.

    Make your opinion about this research, or try to find some others informations to post here... :(
     
  2. Drakmyth

    Drakmyth

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    In the void beneath the ancient maze...
    Sonic Eclipse 2, Return of the Hidden Palace, Unnamed Sonic 2 Hack
    Maybe it's just me but it seems that the mojority of those pics are of a desert-like setting.
     
  3. Ben2k9

    Ben2k9

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    none at the mo
    I think that was the point of the post....
     
  4. Sonic Hachelle-Bee

    Sonic Hachelle-Bee

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    That's why I post them.
    There is almost nothing about caves or mines or underground locations when you talk about a dust hill or a hill of dust. This expression, "Dust Hill", seems to be a metaphor, an image to talk about sandhills, dunes or also powdery snow, everywhere in books, photos, articles, musics...

    There is some things else found this afternoon:
    Powdery snow comes from powder, and the word "poudreuse" in French, referring to this powdery snow, can be translated as dusty...
    A sand storm can be called also as a dust storm. I see it in a lot of articles talking about this and the beginning of the war in Iraq.
    ...
    At last, the word "dust" is highly used as a metaphor to talk about very quick and fine sand.

    Another time, this is very objective. This is all I can find about "dust hill" so far.

    EDIT: After verification on a map, this town near Northampton (UK) is "Dost Hill", not "Dust Hill". This mistake belongs to the site I saw it...Deleted from this research.
     
  5. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    Which would mean it would be an effing good choice for a zone that starts of as a desert and becomes a winter wonderland, or in fact any zone that featured both these landscapes - calling it "Dust" keeps it generic because it can mean either Sand or Snow.
    Gah I don't know what to believe now! Maybe the whole "no dust hill thing" just pushed the Desert Zone's Name into speculation, rather than fact. Though if I remeber correctly, the last time I said that QuickMan had a go at me for not reading the topic fully :P
    Good post Sonic Hachelle-Bee!
     
  6. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    I FOUND IN GOOGLE WHAT SEEMS TO BE A DUST HILL ZONE SKETCH!!!1!
    [​IMG]

    OMG I EXPLAINED DUST HILL!!!1!11



    Seriously, Dust Hill is Mystic Cave's old name, nothing else. :(
     
  7. Sonic Hachelle-Bee

    Sonic Hachelle-Bee

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    I can't say Dust Hill zone is the desert level. Obviously, in our beta, Dust Hill zone is the old name for Mystic Cave and nothing else. We can't say this is not true because...well...choose DHZ under the level select and you are in a cave level like MCZ, and that's all!

    I think my opinion and theory about this desert level shouldn't be posted here (PM or e-mail me to have it, so I can talk with you easily). This topic is just to reveal what in real life, the words "dust hill" and "hill of dust" are used for. With this research, I'm convinced that this name is better for a sand/winter level than for a cave level. Maybe that's why Sega changed it after to Mystic Cave, we'll never know...
     
  8. So if that's true, than what is the name of the desert level? If Beta Mystic Cave is Dust hill than what is the beta Dust Hill? Mystic Cave?? :P I like the name just the way it is, and it could have been that Sonic Team simply scrapped Dust Hill in favor of Mystic Cave but forgot to change the name in the level select.

    Or I could be talking out of my ass again, I've been doing that alot lately.
     
  9. Syren

    Syren

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    Reintergration
    What about the idea of Dust Hill zone being scrapped but not from the level select, and instead the pointers go to Mysic Cave zone instead of where Dust Hill was?
     
  10. Sonic Hachelle-Bee

    Sonic Hachelle-Bee

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    That was an edit, but you replied faster than me editing...

    Anggun, Snow on the Sahara, 1998, extract of lyrics:

    Only tell me that you still want me here
    When you wander off out there
    To those hills of dust and hard winds that blows
    In that dry white ocean alone
    ? ?
    Lost out in the desert...
    You are lost out in the desert...
    ? ?
    But to stand with you in a ring of fire
    I'll forget the days gone by
    I'll protect your body and guard your soul
    From mirages in your sight
    ? ?
    Lost out in the desert...
    ? ?
    If your hopes scatter like the dust across your track
    I'll be the moon that shines on your path
    The sun may blind our eyes I'll pray the skies above
    For snow to fall on the Sahara
    If that's the only place where you can leave your doubts
    I'll hold you up and be your way out
    And if we burn away I'll pray the skies above
    For snow to fall on the Sahara
     
  11. Drakmyth

    Drakmyth

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    In the void beneath the ancient maze...
    Sonic Eclipse 2, Return of the Hidden Palace, Unnamed Sonic 2 Hack
    I've been agreeing with the view that Dust Hill was the desert name from the beginning and when the level was scrapped the pointers in the level select were changed to Mystic Cave or Mystic Cave now occupies the slot that Dust Hill was once in. I just can't see Dust Hill being a cave. Something just isn't right.
     
  12. If there's one thing I'm good at, its making an ass of myself. But I won't lie to you, I'm not a big rom hacker, but I did stay at a Holliday Inn once. And From the evidence gathered thus far on the definitions of "Dust" and "Hill" and all phrases in between, Dust Hill Zone suits the desert level just fine IMO. And if it truely is the original name of Mystic Cave (the name that Sega originaly planned), all I can say is :wtf:

    And befur yu ask, no I havun't been drinking. :P
     
  13. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    rofl, even though it's been covered in the other massive topic, a nice summary of how the people came to the conclusion would be handy. So I made one:

    o Ok, so Nemisis find the supposed desert zone sprites are actually from another game. This means that what little info was known has shrunk to even less. He also points out that the Desert Zone mag pic is a mock up made from level art.
    o Black Squirrel makes a retorting comment which gets ignored " Wait a sec. just because those 'lost sprites and tiles' are from another game doesn't mean there wasn't a dust hill zone!"
    o Finally a good explanation from Rika Chou:
    "Just because there are no tiles from it in the game doesn't mean anything. There are no tiles from genocide city, but do we doubt it's existence? NO! So shut up!

    Actually, yes. Because all we have of genocide city is the level select text, and that's all. There is no proof anywhere that the actually level was made at all. And all we have of DHZ now is one mock up screen shot."

    and then this one:

    "But why won't anyone tell me how this mystically "proves" that Dust Hill doesn't exist? that just tells you that those tiles are not from DHZ.

    Because we have no technical evidence. It may have existed at one time, but now we have not even one piece of data from Dust hill. So NOW it doesn't exist, but it may have at one tile long ago."

    o Last word from Simon
    "What we currently know: There is no proof to suggest Dust Hill Zone was ever implemented.

    It doesn't prove Dust Hill was never implemented in earlier builds. That doesn't mean you can wishfully and religiously believe it was made, either. Clues gathered throughout these years allow us to make an educated guess, that very little of Dust Hill was ever made, or even compiled into a build."

    ~~~

    So there's nothing to prove it existed, which does not mean it didn't exist. I think Sonic Team are quite capable at pressing the delete button even on Beta ROMS. The only evidence is the "name" which most people debunk because it's so flimsy. And SHB here has been performing research into the name, in order to establish how solid this "name" evidence is. Good job to SHB is all I can say.
     
  14. T.Q.

    T.Q.

    The Sims 2, Tim Drake [Robin] Member
    And so, once again, we can all call that Sonic 2 Genesis desert level mock-up picture Dust Hill whether or not there was an existence of the level before this beta.
     
  15. Drakmyth

    Drakmyth

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    In the void beneath the ancient maze...
    Sonic Eclipse 2, Return of the Hidden Palace, Unnamed Sonic 2 Hack
    and "That's what it's all about. bum bum". Sorry, sorry, I don't know where that came from.
     
  16. Frigidare

    Frigidare

    Above picture copyright of IFG Publications Member
    My theory:

    Date 1: Dust Hill created.
    Date 2: Dust Hill deleted, but level select info (text and pointer) are unchanged.
    Date 3: Mystic Cave goes into the same level ID, but level select info goes unchanged.
    Date 4: Level Select text is changed for final release.

    The only reason the game has a level select is to make testing easier. If the tester knew that Dust Hill took him to Mystic Cave, s/he isn't going to complain.
     
  17. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    And noone can disprove or prove that because the main 2 events happen before the date of our beta. What really happened is simply an unfilled grey area.
     
  18. Drakmyth

    Drakmyth

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    In the void beneath the ancient maze...
    Sonic Eclipse 2, Return of the Hidden Palace, Unnamed Sonic 2 Hack
    So we get together a great angry mob and storm Sega!! :evil: God, I've always wanted to do that.
     
  19. Sonic Hachelle-Bee

    Sonic Hachelle-Bee

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    Since others post their theories about the desert level anyway, I will post my mine, very understandable when you are a game developper I think:

    First, this is obvious that this sand/snow level with a palette change existed, at an early stage than our beta. When you start writing a game, with the storyboard, you plan some levels you will make for the game, without chosing their definitive names. Some levels were planned at start: a Green Hill level (like Sonic 1 one), a Neo Green Hill (something a bit different than a Green Hill), an Hill Top level (at the top of a mountain, trough clouds), a Wood level (lost in a forest), a Casino level (at night, you usually go to casino at night), a Chemical Plant level (a plant with some odd substances), an hidden level (called Hidden Palace because this is a beautiful level with some gems), a Metropolis level (like the famous film Metropolis by Fritz Lang in 1927), a sky fortress level (a fortress in the sky), a death egg level (the last one, like Star Wars films), a sand/snow level, and then a city level (maybe with a catastrophe, we don't know...). This is where my theory start...

    I think the cave level was not planned at start (12 levels planned already). Having 13 levels in a game is kinda odd...All level names under the beta were descriptive and not definitive, developpers certainly don't care so much about their names at this point. When you compare a desert with a snowy mountain, you can't find matches with the relief, or with the weather, or vegetables. The only thing matching is this idea of dust coming from the sand and the powdery snow. Then, why not call it Dust....Hill at start for developpers (Like Green Hill, Neo Green Hill, Hill Top, Whateveryouwant Hill)?

    Now, we are highly thinking that Genocide City was out of the game developpement before sand/snow level. In fact, Wood zone was cut pretty early too, after the sand/snow level, and Brenda Ross remember it very well. BR can't remember GCZ (as well for Craig Stitt), because she never saw this level! It was cut before her level...So why they keep GCZ under the level select and not the sand/snow level? I think every levels planned at start are under this level select, and the cave level is again in an early developpement stage in our beta (2, 3 sprites and some tiles), not like the others not cutted out. Then, I think Dust Hill was the sand/snow level slot, and when they cut it from the game, planning another cave level instead, they put the cave level in this slot (instead of creating a new one, and Dust Hill is better for a cave level than Wood or Genocide City). They changed the developpement name after to Mystic Cave (like some others), before the release of Sonic 2 in 1992.

    That's all what I think about this sand/snow level. This is 99% false for sure, but this maybe 99% true, unfortunately we will never know...
    :(

    EDIT: In my first sentence, I mean existed on the paper at least.
     
  20. I agree. We can get some pitchforks and torches to realy scare the shit (or better yet alpha) out of them. Hell, while we're at it, grab a Sonic Adventure 3 beta :D