Dr. Robotnik's face in Sonic 2 Beta

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Flame, Aug 22, 2005.

  1. If the game thinks there are rings in Death Egg that means that it was originaly planed to have rings in it. There, I have proved that there was originaly rings in death egg using debug.
     
  2. SoNick

    SoNick

    Oldbie
    OBJECTION!

    Let's think this through logically for just a bit.
    And I will admit that I'm horribly over-simplifying things here; just about everything I'm saying in this post is common knowledge.
    With that out of the way...

    Let's examine your argument:
    "If the game thinks there are rings in Death Egg" is a horrible statement. However, it seems that you are trying to state that the game checks for rings in Death Egg.

    Now, why is this you ask?
    It's simple, really: The movement engine used in Death Egg is the same one used in the rest of the game.
    Proving this is trivial; compare how Sonic moves in Death Egg Zone with how he moves in the rest of the game.
    Do you see any differences? Any at all?
    I didn't think so.

    Even a tiny amount of programming knowledge and common sense states that the movement engine is separate from the levels themselves.
    Enjoy being stuck in PA when you've used your posts up, kid.
     
  3. muteKi

    muteKi

    Fuck it Member
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    Well, it's probably a fairly well-known thing, at least to those of us who couldn't, as kids, get past that boss.

    But there is a valid point to some of what he says... why bother creating additional art for that segment if it's not supposed to show up in-game?

    I checked, and all this time I thought that the little metal square Robotnik peeks his head out of was part of the same sprite as his face. It isn't. It IS however different from the sprites of him in the egg-o-matic since the windscreen isn't in the way.

    This does bring one to wonder why exactly they would bother doing it if, in fact, that art isn't supposed to be seen under proper conditions anyway. It doesn't "prove" much of anything, though, admittedly. It does make one wonder why this event was programmed into this boss's routine as well, which is what I think he meant by that

    I also always thought that the whole debug thing meant that if the game glitches in debug that said incident isn't particularly noteworthy, but what of, say, a hidden section of a level not accessible by debug, or additional art? Maybe not the most meaningful ever, but since this is clearly not some random bug but part of this boss's programming, it may as well get mentioned if hasn't already been.
     
  4. shobiz

    shobiz

    Tech Member
    You completely missed the point of his post - he was pointing out that because the window object contained a special check to see if Sonic was hurt (it's at loc_39C50 btw), it's highly probable that Death Egg Zone did have rings originally, and the programmers forgot to take the check out when the rings were removed.
     
  5. muteKi

    muteKi

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    Basically what I wanted to say, but explained better overall. Can't really expect some new guy to have looked that closely into a disasm. To be honest, neither have I.
     
  6. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    Someone who is lucky enough to have a copy of Sonic Jam should play Death Egg in easy mode to see if the same event occurs. In such an instance, random "debug" occurances wouldn't be possible, since debug would be inactive.
     
  7. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Also, remember that Death Egg is the only level that loads the pigs' art into VRAM. So it might have been intended to have rings and enemies.
     
  8. P.P.A.

    P.P.A.

    SONIC 2 SUCKS, SONIC CD FOREVER Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=176535:date=Jan 20 2008, 11:01 AM:name=XCubed┬│)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XCubed┬│ @ Jan 20 2008, 11:01 AM) [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  9. Quexinos

    Quexinos

    Since 1997 Oldbie
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    he laughs when Sonic just plain ol dies too
     
  10. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    Yeah it's not proof, it's just that when Sonic gets hurt, it triggers the laugh animation, with or without rings. It does this in quite a few of the other bosses too.
     
  11. muteKi

    muteKi

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    Nope. I inverstigated this (I don't know why it took me so long) but the only activity that occurs on Sonic's death pretty much ever is that Tails goes into his flying animation and travels after Sonic. All other animation freezes, Robotnik included. The laugh is never shown.


    I guess if it's part of some general Robotnik sprite/object programming it would make sense, but not for this boss on its own.
     
  12. SoNick

    SoNick

    Oldbie
    See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiRM1RTDaUk
    Around the 0:55-mark.
    Tails is hit by an arrow from the Aquatic Ruin boss, and the laughing animation plays.


    Right, this is backing Quickman's earlier statement regarding the player getting hit and Dr. Robotnik playing the laughing animation.
    I'd forgotten said statement, as it's been about a month and a half and just now I only checked the date of the last post on the previous page, not its content.
     
  13. Never knew this, but there's one thing I'd like to say: it's very likely that DEZ was supposed to be a full-fledged zone, therefore it would have rings.
    I don't know if anybody posted this (it's pretty tough to search on this, for now the search didn't give me anything similar) but there's one thing that makes this a darn obvious idea.
    I mean, why anybody would compose a 2-minute soundtrack if it plays for a few seconds at max?
    The 2-act structure of the empty DEZ in Wai beta only confirms this.
     
  14. Overlord

    Overlord

    ...did we just switch realities? Moderator
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    Well, yes and no. The default structure for Zones in that game is 2 Acts, whether both are used or not...
     
  15. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo

    Your friendly neighbourhood lemming. Oldbie
    Why? Where is your evidence?
    What are you talking about... the music for the game was composed and placed for zones afterwards. And besides they were probably like "we need some dramatic music for the final zone", and so it got composed. Besides it's only 50seconds long.
    What Overlord said.
     
  16. Really? I've never seen this mentioned anywhere. Where's your evidence? If that's true, then my DEZ theory loses evidence, and I'll agree with you. Until then I'll stick with it, OK? Do you allow me that? :)

    Hmmm! Sure feels longer while listening. I can tell you two things however:
    1) that's still a lot for a sonic level, and
    2) in DEZ in particular, the FACT is that unless you just decide to stay there to listen for it, you won't hear more than 5-6 seconds of the soundtrack. So if it's convoluted enough and loops after 14-15 seconds, it would've worked for this zone -- nobody'd notice a difference!
     
  17. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    DEZ's song is 50 seconds, so what? Aquatic Ruin's is LESS at 42 (or 45?) seconds!