Does SA2 still hold up for you?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Solid SOAP, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. Solid SOAP

    Solid SOAP

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    These last couple of days of summer have been fantastic for me, bar the discovery of something dire; Sonic Adventure 2, one of my favorite GameCube games and the reason I became such a big Sonic fan, is utter shit. Now, keep in mind, I'm not one of those fans who hates every past the Genesis games; I loved Colors and Generations and I think there were a few okay titles sprinkled in between. However. my friend and I have been getting high and playing through classic GameCube and N64 games such as Luigi's Mansion and Majora's Mask, and loving every minute of it. However, when we attempted Adventure 2, to our chagrin we just... hated it. Now, everything I remember loving was still there; the fantastic soundtrack, wonderful sense of style, campy yet great script, etc. It's a game you could tell the devs loved making, however, we had absolutely NO FUN playing it.

    It's been a few years since I played it, so my Sonic experience for the past few years has consisted of not much else than Colors, Generations, the CD port and Sonic 4. Maybe Generations' and Colors' spot-on controls through me off, but Sonic controls abysmally. At top speed it's near impossible to make a proper turn without careening into a wall, the lack of lock-on for homing attack makes attempting the move very difficult and nerve-racking. As for the rest of the game's levels, they're worse than I remember. Something that caught me by surprise is how much level design is reused throughout the game. I remember each character having their own unique levels, but so many share various level set pieces and textures and such that many of them feel more like "Part 2" or rehashed versions of a previous level (ie; Metal Harbor to Weapons Bed, Wild Canyon to Dry Lagoon, etc).

    I still am in love with the soundtrack, story, and characterization of every character, don't get me wrong. It has its share of defining features and moments that make it easy for me to understand why I liked it so much as a kid, it's just extremely disappointing that one of my favorite games of all time just has overall awful level design and rehashed ideas throughout. Perhaps it's simply dated, because I don't remember being so jaded regarding the game's controls and level design, but I find it hard to enjoy now that I've played so many quality platformers. This isn't supposed to be a troll topic or an angry letter or whatever, but I'd like to know what the public's opinion of the game is now, 10+ years later.
     
  2. NomadTW

    NomadTW

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    It holds up fine to me. Unlike the chore that is SA1, THAT game aged like milk. (You can try to deny that all you want but we all know any character outside of Sonic, Knuckles, or Tails is boring as shit. Maybe Gamma, but that's stretching it.)

    Not saying it's great or anything, it's just merely okay, all around.
     
  3. For me, Sonic Adventure 2 hasn't aged near as bad as Sonic Adventure, but it's still pretty bad... on the Gamecube at least. Something about playing it on the Dreamcast makes it way more enjoyable to me, but then in doing so, you're foregoing several features added in with Battle. Even so, it doesn't excuse how bad the game has aged since then.

    It's all really thrown into question whether I'll bother picking up the HD remake; while it's already getting treated better that Sonic Adventure, it's still tough to buy a game you already have (twice at that) and isn't really even that good anymore.
     
  4. SF94

    SF94

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    I still like it to an extent. Sonic and Shadow's gameplay is pretty good, but the hunting and shooting is kinda boring. Oddly enough, in SA1 I think the shooting (Gamma) is OK, and I actually like the hunting. I'm not sure what it is SA2 did to screw that up for me, but there's that. I still find the Chao fun to mess around with every so often as well, although it does irk me that you need to raise them to get all the emblems... (which I have never managed to do, actually!) Although due to the improvements, I only bother with Chao in SA2B specifically.

    And honestly, while I can understand the complaint about the way the characters control, I've never had any issues making the turns that I need to. I can't remember the last time I smacked into a wall or flew off the edge of the level because I tried to turn. I can agree that the modern Sonic games control better, but the people who have issues with SA1/2 controls simply need to lrn2analog. Especially if you're playing with a GameCube controller. I mean really now. :colbert:
    (In all seriousness, I've probably just gotten used to it.)

    In regards to SA1, it's sorta like the "omg hub world where do I gooo what do I dooo this is now worst game ever" when it was never that complicated to begin with. I only got lost once when I played it the first time many years ago. Of course, I can understand the dislike towards having to go to a hub world in-between pretty much every level, but getting lost? Really?

    Anyway, I've kinda gone off on a small tangent there. I'll move onto the story I guess.
    I'm definitely OK with the way the characters were portrayed. Even at the time that I played it though, as young as I was, I realized that the story is a little on the... complex side, I suppose, for a Sonic game. Same goes for SA1. I find them cool in a sort of cheesy way.
    And of course, the music is awesome, although I like SA1's better.


    In conclusion, I'll echo a little of what NomadTW said. It's OK. I had fun with it and still do, etc... as long as I only play Sonic and Shadow :specialed:
     
  5. Metal Man88

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    It's still one of my favorite Sonic games, story and atmosphere wise. Playing wise, only Sonic, Shadow and Eggman are any good.

    I don't really believe it aged that much. Rather, Sonic improved gameplay-wise in recent games.
     
  6. OKei

    OKei

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    I didn't agree with the original headline. Thanks for allowing an open topic.

    Having played and beaten both the Dreamcast and GameCube version, I can tell the game -- in its purist core -- does not hold its weight too well today.

    The story and English voice acting are whack, and what were they thinking when they decided to celebrate Sonic's 10th anniversary with the whole Shadow x Maria tragedy storyline? This game is suppose to be about Sonic. The voice acting is flat. The actors don't sound like their trying very hard to deliver lines (though given the circumstances behind the voice production and their communication with Sega, it's not entirely their fault but that's them embracing the obstacles and not overcoming them as actors). Those were all cosmetic details though. Moving on over to the important features, the levels bare very noticeable flaws. The level design for all the levels require too much jumping and have too many obstacles in them. Green Forest feels broken to me now as a result and I used to love that stage all around, and controlling Sonic feels like maneuvering a car tire now (it's not terrible but it's just awkward now). The radar and time limit for the Death Chamber and Egg Quarters stages can go straight to hell.

    But the game's soundtrack, the darker atmosphere, level art design and detail, and re-playability are impressive. As Solid SOAP mentioned, it's a game that it's designers had a lot of fun making. They used to be a very inspired bunch and the move to San Francisco caused an environment shock to the team that, according Senoue-san, was a big deal in their lives. Said shock can probably been seen and heard in the game's level art and music, and I thought they were a little ahead of their time. I still remember the City Escape textures resembling very closely to the famous city's environment, which I happen to live by fairly close to, and I was blown by its accuracy. The game still looks great with a component cable (I don't use Dolphin emulators). I thought Shadow as a character was at his best in this game too, before he overstayed his welcome to the franchise in later game. The two-player mode, Chao Garden, the early Hero and Dark levels are still kinda entertaining (maybe it's because I'm totally burned by the game, I dedicated about 300+ hours total on both versions. I'm been done with the game for years until recently). Netting combos still feels very rewarding. The grinding is still awesome, most of Radical Highway was breathtaking.

    Overall, it was a great game in its time. I think it's still a passably decent game today, if somewhat underrated by others. There's still many to like, but the primitive controls, dumb story, and unnecessarily bloated (and somewhat superficial) level design will turn off people as they get deeper into the game. When I look back at it now, I ask myself "Man, why the hell did the level designers thought having bottomless pits in all stages was a good idea?" or "Why the fuck did they make this stage solely around rails?" or "Why the hell is it so clunky to move Tails and Eggman?" and so forth.

    Maybe it's one of those games that the more you adjust to its flaws as you play, the more fun you'll have. I was probably one to overlook such flaws as I bought into the hype of the game as it was coming out in 2001 (and hell I was hyped). I had a legitimate blast when I played it the first time on the Dreamcast and later on the GameCube, but now it's just not as grand as it used it be. But I don't hate Sonic Adventure 2. I never did.

    EDIT: Rearranged my "review." I guess I have more to say than I thought!
     
  7. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    I don't think it's a bad game, and I don't think it's nearly as uncontrollable as people make it out to be. I have a harder time with the controls in Unleashed and Generations, to be honest. Also, SA2B has the best multiplayer mode from any Sonic game ever, so there's that.
     
  8. jasonchrist

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    Sonic Adventure 2 was the final death blow for Sonic to me (until Generations at least).

    I played it in a game shop display back in '01 and seeing the increased anime look and feel over SA1, the shitty, underdog loser-rock and real world environments just made me say "fuck it" and I moved on. Sonic was no longer for me, it was for fucking losers and in many ways still is. Over the years I've seen various youtube vids of the game and it turns out it was waaay shitter than I initially expected it to be. I did however thoroughly enjoy the music to Pyramid Cave and Lost Colony.

    I ended up giving SA1 another chance by buying SADX for £5 in a bargain bin, and my initial dislike of the game turned into one of the best purchases I ever made. It may not have aged well, but SA1 shits all over its successor.I don't think I could ever change my mind and come to love SA2, it's just that shite.
     
  9. GeneHF

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    Game's aged horribly for me. It's not even that fun to play anymore because of how loose it feels. I honestly consider it the game that began Sonic's dark ages as it has several features, for lack of a better word, that became more exacerbated in subsequent games, up until the whole thing crashed into the ground for 2006. SA1 had its issues and also has aging issues, but none so drastic as SA2.

    I repeat: SA1. Not SADX. That's a completely different subject as it's always been garbage.
     
  10. Nova

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    Nothing against the game's story or musical style or anything. Layouts are fine, too - in that I can imagine the Generations engine being applied to them well (my god, that would be awesome and some of the modding being done is making this a reality)...

    But dear GOD the controls are awful! Sonic's turning circle, the stiff jumping, the sudden 'stop' when you slide/roll... It just feels terrible, at parts even worse than Adventure.

    Still, I can't help but enjoy it sometimes - dat Metal Harbor. :v:
     
  11. muteKi

    muteKi

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    It feels a lot slower, the levels are all a lot more cramped, and the treasure hunting stages take way longer than they should.

    The engine's more stable here, sure, but frankly SA1 is all-around a better game, even with the fishing.
     
  12. It hasn't aged badly for me at all tbh. I still enjoy it now as much as I did when I was a kid. There's only the Chao stuff that I can't be bothered with now.

    Tbh it was one of the last decent games for years, until Unleashed came out(but only the day time sections).
     
  13. Dark Sonic

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    Up until unleashed came out, I could safely say sa2 was my favorite 3d sonic game, but at that point what was the competition? SA1 was fun, but the other entries were laughable.

    But then unleashed did come out and I loved it despite its flaws. Then colors came and did a lot better then unleashed, and then generations came out and it took over the long held #2 spot of my fav sonic games list that was sonic 2. And I sort of forgot about sa2 until I decided to play it the other day. Was it bad? No. But it was boring and awkward as all hell. Now it's definitely not sonic heroes bad. I once liked that game too, but I played that a while ago and I think I was getting stomach pains around bingo highway because the game was so fucking unenjoyable. But unleashed defined what sonic in 3d should be like IMO and it set a good formula in place. Playing sa2 again was a step backwards. Even the sonic levels, the best thing the game had going for it, we're boring, linear snoozefests.

    So while I still think its not a bad game, it's not the glorious savior I once thought it was and unless sa3 was drastically different from the other 2 adventures, I never want to see it exist
     
  14. InstantSonic

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    I like SA2 to a certain extent. The Sonic/Shadow levels were fun, and the treasure hunts were alright. The three main things that really bother me about that game are the "walker" levels, the Tails/Rouge car levels, about half the soundtrack being something you wouldn't want to listen to casually. You can feel the effort put into SA2, but the game itself was just pushed out the door way, waaay too soon for the 10th anniversary, and it shows.
     
  15. Sofox

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    I'm sorry to be cynical here, but I wasn't that keen when SA2 first game out. I loved Sonic Adventure (why get aggravted with Big? You leave his levels to the end then blast through them, froggy's nearly always right by you and easy to catch) and was excited with what SA2 would bring.

    And then it came and I was like.. huh?

    The storyline was a lot darker and adding a military organisation didn't make it feel very Sonic-y. The level reuse was a pain (multiple Egyptian places), and other were just generic or fogettable (I remember Green Forest more for the "FAKER" cutscene than the level itself... and why were some levels just an unfinished road in a black abyss? When you got to those houses near the begining and end of the level, it at least felt you were at a location), I didn't like how you were forced to change genres with each level (in SA, you chose your character and played as much as you wanted to in that genre before deciding to switch). Eh, I guess the rest of it was just feelings of missed potential. I loved SA, and I wanted the next sequel to reach new heights, so when it came out and was just "robust" and "okay"... I dunno, I guess for me it was the start of the Sonic Cycle :P

    But dang, why be so negative? Things I liked about SA2? City Escape + it's BGM; "FAKER" dialogue ("I'll make you eat those words"); we get some poignant moments form Tails when he thinks Sonic's died; we also get some nice understated, quiet character moments during the final credits as they all muse what happened.
     
  16. SpeedStarTMQ

    SpeedStarTMQ

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    SA2 is still a great game, but over the last few years it's aged worse and worse. I played this game constantly up till 2008 and then whenever I've gone back to it I've realised how unfair the difficulty level is in relation to how annoying the camera can sometimes be in places of Knuckle's and Rouge's levels and also how bloody irritating it is to get all A rank/emblems. if it were less fucking stupid with it's scores for levels like Tails and Eggman I would find the game a lot better.

    As it stands I really love the game, despite it being a massive change for Sonic. I think the controls are still decent, the sound still great, the graphics have held up well for a game over a decade old and the 2 player is a blast.
     
  17. BigTheCat

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    The way Sonic and Shadow control is probably my favorite of any 3D sonic game honestly, I miss the spindash. And I never ever had a problem turning, it might just be me being incredibly used to it.
    And I still enjoy the heck out of the 2 player mode even still to this day.

    I really wish they'd bring back 2 player racing for modern sonic games with Sonic, Shadow, Blaze, and Metal Sonic :(
     
  18. When I first played it, it was all "WHOAAAA YEAAAHHH SONIC GAAAAME" and enjoyed it. Although at the time I did get annoyed by some parts, like how I wanted to play the part in the story where you race Shadow as Sonic on the Ark but you had to do a level first which at the time I found very hard and long. Yet for the dark story you can pick the Sonic vs Shadow final race right away. Plus in the end, I mostly played it for the Chao.

    Playing it again nowadays and it just doesn't seem all that great. I found the whole setting and style to not be my thing, I preferred the cartoony colourfulness of the Classic games or heck, even the newest modern games such as Colours and Unleashed had a nicer look to them. While I find that Shadow has the best characterization in this game compared to how he was in heroes/06 and whatnot, and that Eggman and Sonic fit well enough, I just found the other characters to feel very tacked on, espcially Tails.


    Still, WE'RE AT PUMPKIN HILL, YOU READY?
    I AIN'T GONNA LET IT GET TO ME I'm JUST GONNA CREEP, DOWN AT PUMPKIN HILL I GOTTA FIND MY LOST PIECE...


    Knuckles has the best theme songs out of any game, period.
     
  19. FinalBeyond

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    "So how did you know it wasn't the real emerald?"
    "Because you just told me, fox boy!"

    If we could keep that cutscene and ditch everything else involving Tails and Eggman (and Knuckles and Rouge), SA2 might be enjoyable to me.
     
  20. Overlord

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    First played it in 2002 on the GameCube, and to be honest, disliked it as a game even then. Though it looks decent enough and the facial animation was a great improvement on SA1, and the music stayed decent enough for the most part - dear GOD is it awful to play. Flying off into space during the space grinding levels, homing attacks that don't lock on to what you're actually aiming at... but then we get to a bigger problem, in that only about a third of the game (not counting even GREATER reliance on the Chao Garden for fucking Emblums adding to this) is actually Sonic gameplay.

    SA1 got the balance well enough in that the Sonic-style content was much longer than the non-Sonic style content. Tails is basically Sonic with flight in SA1, so his levels count with Sonic's - as such, all you're left with are Amy, Knuckles, Big & E102 for the alternates, all of which are much notibly shorter than Sonic & Tails. In SA2, we have an even three way split between Sonic/Shadow, Tails/Robotnik (who take E102's tolerable stages and make them longer and worse, moreso because Tails' unique gameplay mechanic - his flying - is now gone, in place of being a carbon clone of Robotnik, for the balance. Knuckles' treasure hunting stages are now much worse than they were in SA1, and thanks to Rouge we effectively have double the number of them (and she has arguably the worst of all of them, fucking Security Hall. That 5 minute timer can fuck off and die in a fire).

    SA1, which has admittedly aged badly, is still a much more fun game to play than SA2 (arguably the start point of the series' slide into horror, that peaked with Sonic 06) is. Both are inferior to Unleashed (Day), Colours & Generations, though.


    tl;dr - in answer to the topic question - no, it doesn't, but then it arguably didn't to start with.