Help Does anyone have the original HQ samples used in Sonic 3 & Knuckles?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by adesyndicate, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. When I was younger, I found a forum post or article on Sonic Retro or some other Sonic forum where the OP found and compiled together all or most of the samples used in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. These were not rips of the in-game, bit-crushed PCM samples, but the original, raw, high quality, uncompressed samples. I cannot for the life of me find this forum post/article from years ago! Does anyone have the link to that page or have the sample pack? I currently have a few HQ samples: "Go!" from Launch Base Zone, "Come on!" from Mini Boss Theme, and "Jam" from Carnival Night Zone. (Thank you to the people of the DefleMask Discord server for finding them!)

    This was years ago, so this HQ sample pack may not actually exist or it may not exist the way I remember it. But if anyone has any info on it, let me know! Having access to HQ versions of these samples would do very well for remixers and composers like myself! :shobon:

    The music in the Genesis Sonic games are rooted in 80s and 90s pop, city pop, and new jack swing. So, it is likely that the composers at Sonic Team used professional drum machines. Some speculate that the Akai MPC-3000 was the drum machine used in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but—unless I'm missing something—I struggle to hear the connection comparing the in-game samples and the drum machine samples. Perhaps there was external processing done to the MPC-3000 samples before they were put in the game that really changed the way it sounded? It seems people have already found the sources of some of the samples! This list comes from the Sonic 3 page here on Sonic Retro under "Audio Samples List". There is also another similar forum topic to this one called "The Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles Quest for Music Composer Research".
    I'll be updating the "Audio Samples List" and compiling all these samples together as I find them.
    You can find the HQ S3&K Sample Pack here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  2. Rudie Radio Waves

    Rudie Radio Waves

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    You might know this already, but:

    Hopefully this might help you.
     
  3. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    One sample that was never found is the Sonic 1 Kick drum.
     
  4. Afro Thunder

    Afro Thunder

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    I forget exactly where I saw it (might've been twitter), but Sonic 1 and 2's drums are likely based off Roland's TR-606 set.

    EDIT: I was half-right - The Sonic 1&2 drums were from the Roland 626:

     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  5. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  6. I downloaded an Akai MPC-3000 pack to search for the Sonic 3 & Knuckles samples as well as Roland TR-626 and TR-808 packs to find the Sonic 1 and 2 samples. If I can find the right ones, I'll see about adding them to the original post (assuming that's not against the rules).
     
  7. T.Q.

    T.Q.

    The Sims 2, Tim Drake [Robin] Member
  8. Yes! I've got these. Let me have a dig for the folder.

    Send me a PM and I'll upload it to drop box for you :)

    EDIT: Found the folder. The read me file says the samples where ripped by Mr. Lange, who is a regular on here

    IDIOT EDIT: Didn't read the post properly. Yes these are in game rips. But regardless, anyone want them fire me a message.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  9. If I can find them, I will try to be as descriptive as I can so people will have no trouble getting the samples for themselves.

    Alas, these were HQ rips of in-game SFX, not the original samples the PCM samples were derived from.
     
  10. The snare seems to be a good place to start! In my entire MPC-3000 sample pack, I have only found one snare sample that kind of resembles the S3&K snare. The differences (besides fidelity) are that the S3&K version seems to have heavy dynamic compression and a gated reverb effect applied to it while the drum machine version is, as expected, very dry. I'll mess around with effects until I can recreate the S3&K snare in DefleMask and post any interesting results. ^_^
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  11. My betting is that SEGA programmed a good bunch of the sounds using some sort of FM editor so I doubt you'll find all of them, as they are basically just code to begin with.

    Good luck in your search regardless! And keep us updated :)
     
  12. This is as best I got for tonight. Here is a link to the files I'm working with and my two attempts to make the MPC-3000 snare sound like the S3&K snare. Anyone else can take a crack at it if they like!

    Here is my current collection of high quality S3&K samples. I'm working on finding the right Jam sample to put in and will be sourcing the multitrack stems if possible. I think the "glass break" samples from the game also come from Jam, but I could very well be wrong. Both "Jam" and the glass break come from Carnival Night Zone... I'll have to analyse to be sure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  13. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    The musical instruments, yes.

    The percussion sounds, no.

    While it is possible to use the FM part of the 2612 as a surrogate for some drum sounds, I can't think of any instances of that being the case in any Sonic game.
     
  14. Ah nice, thanks for clarifying. I was under the impression that was the case, apart from the obvious jacko samples
     
  15. Afro Thunder

    Afro Thunder

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    The glass breaking sample is from Michael Jackson's "In the Closet".
     
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  16. Thank you! You seem to have a keen ear for finding these things! I double-checked the Genesis samples with the In the Closet samples and they line up perfectly! I've updated the "Audio Samples List" with links and timestamps and the HQ S3&K Sample Pack. Thank you again!
     
  17. Afro Thunder

    Afro Thunder

    Call Da Doctor! Member
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    Trying to get outta Dr. Dre mode, and actually release an album.
    Least I could do. I dig for samples all the time as a hip hop producer, so you need a good ear for spotting samples in songs.

    EDIT: I think I might know why you're having issues with the MPC 3000 drums: Those were used for the S3 Knuckles/Miniboss theme, since MJ's "Blood On The Dancefloor" uses the same kit. I still think some of the MPC3K might've been used in the regular S3K kit, but who knows?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  18. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    They actually used FM Kick Drums in conjunction DAC Samples with on Knuckles Theme and Miniboss in Sonic 3. You can hear those easily as the song fades out the DAC is muted and only the FM drums remain.



    They also used FM to make a reverse cymbal in Sonic 3D

     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
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  19. That helps! I'll check them out and see if they're the same and then add them if they are.
     
  20. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester

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    While we're on subject of percussion sample origins, anyone know where the kick, snare, and tom samples on Sonic Crackers are from?