Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Snub-n0zeMunkey, Oct 11, 2019.
If a remake ever did prop up, I would hope they made the Big portion of the game optional.
Even in the original game, it mostly is. All you miss by not playing any of the non-Sonic stories is the final boss. Which, alright, fair enough, that's not nothing; and since Sonic is the one you're playing as, it's basically Sonic's true final boss. So I think an Adventure remake should just make the "Super Sonic" story the actual last part of Sonic's story. I feel like that'd make the most sense and alleviate a fair amount of complaints, I feel. In 3K, Doomsday Zone is just part of Sonic's story, so there's perfectly fine precedent there. That's the only real change I'd advocate for.
I’m on the fence with Big being optional. His gameplay as it is really shouldn’t be a mandatory part of the game but I think the story does lose a bit by not experiencing his playthrough, as stupid and minimal as it is. With all forms of art, I like to respect the vision of the creator(s), so just saying, “Axe it,” or , “Make it optional,” doesn’t sit right with me.
I do like the concept proposed by some YouTuber of revamping the gameplay to be platforming with the fishing rod having movement options similar to a grappling hook. It was this video:
I avoided watching it for the longest time since I usually dislike when non-devs just talk about ideas for games, but his ideas are mostly pretty solid and his art is good so he can represent them well visually.
Really I'm just for shrewdly improving Big's campaign over ditching it or altering its core too much.
The fishing is just so quick to do after you figure out how to catch Froggy, just that's not exactly shown clearly enough because none of the fish require the same button command for some reason.
Demonstrate that more clearly at the beginning and then just make the levels leading up to the fishing a bit more developed. Add Heroes' Body Slam as an optional extra ability/item and you have a decent Big gameplay style where you can at least waste time lazily trashing stuff before going to the fishing.
Hot Shelter but with Big able to attack stuff would be a decent example of how a Big level should work.
All of this is well and good, but you're not really going to get rid of the stigma of "why am I fishing in a Sonic game" if you force a player to use Big.
Can guarantee the game is going to get ripped apart for that...again.
In fact, Frontiers apparently bringing back Big as a fishing mechanic makes me think they're testing the waters and see how people are gonna react.
I'm just curious why the second game is tagged on this thread, especially since no one is discussing it.
I figured I'd post this here instead of the Frontiers thread. Usually when Iizuka says he wants to do Adventure 3 I always wonder what's stopping him from actually just making it. In this article he goes into depth about why it hasn't happened.
It's basically because of high expectations and resources. I think he wants to be able to do it justice but worries that it might not live up to modern standards and fan expectations (and let's be real, most people want completely different things out of SA3)
This is probably a hot take and may or may not get me crucified, but if an SA3 were to come around, I'd love for Sonic's style to be the boost gameplay rather than the old gameplay style. I consider boost to just be flat out better, and the real appeal of SA3 to me would be the return of multiple playstyles, I'd absolutely love to see things like treasure hunting, mech shooting, and even Silver's telekinesis gameplay return and be put up to modern gameplay standards with extra polish.
also even if i did want the adventure formula to return on face value i just doubt they could even get the adventure formula right without screwing it up somehow lmaoooooo
With that said, I'm not holding my breath for this game to ever come out within the next 20 years
It makes a lot of sense really. He is the one who directed SA1 & SA2 and he apparently really enjoyed creating those games. If I'm not mistaken, he came up with the "Sonic RPG" idea that eventually became Adventure as well. He has an attachment to that kind of game and I do commend him for realizing that Sega probably wouldn't do it justice.
If he did do it, I imagine they would keep the boost gameplay but would expand the scope to include other characters as the adventure games did.
World DX is THE gameplay template they need to follow for a true SA3. All character types from Adventure through to '06 are represented (save for Big's fishing but we all know that should be mini game territory), and the level design is such that any character can beat any level. It's very refreshing.
Beyond that, it would need a cheesy but satisfying story, and unfortunately I'm not sure what compelling untapped lore they could dredge up at this point. They squandered pretty much any logical story angle for SA3 on lesser projects. If it just ends up being about wisps or whatever other miscellaneous googas, they'll have a harder time reeling back in all the old fans who were left wondering "but what happens next" and didn't want to suffer through Heroes/Shadow/etc.
Anyway, it won't happen for all the reasons it hasn't happened yet. World DX has filled the SA3-shaped hole that Heroes punched through my heart back in the day so I'm happy.
If Frontiers do well, I wonder if the possibilities of a Adventure remake / 3 would be higher.
I respect your opinion but I strongly disagree. I think it would be cool to have a boost character in a hypothetical adventure 3 but Sonic needs his adventure moveset/rolling IMO. Honestly my main worry with a hypothetical Adventure 3 would be that Sonic couldn’t spindash
I actually really like the "cozy" feel of SA1's levels. I like Sonic's level of speed there. And I'm honestly not interested in seeing the other characters in 3D if so much of the level design feel that I like has to be compromised. I'm not a fan of how fangames make you go so fast and end up making everything as large as possible, with jumps as wide as possible. It takes away from the world feeling that I enjoy so much. SA2's more videogamey environments are a big reason why I don't like its Sonic levels nearly as much as its predecessor's.
yeah pretty much this, if it was Boost gameplay again then why even bother calling it "Adventure 3"?. To me that's like making a new Sonic Rush game and calling it "Sonic Mania 2" lol
In my mind Adventure 3 should be an opportunity to go back to basics. All I really want is for Sonic to have his moveset from SA2 with the level design of SA1. I don't even care if there are like a billion alternate playable characters, as long as they nail Sonic's gameplay making it feel similar to Adventure but still modern in its own way, I'd be happy.
I think I probably posted something along these lines before, but I’m not worried about a potential Sonic Adventure remake and an eventual return to the series (even if it’s only to do 3). Everything eventually gets made and in this case, the guy in charge really wants to do it.
A hypothetical Sonic Adventure 3 would have to be preceded by a remake of at least the first game. Not only is it a way to gauge the market and generate interest, it’s smart financial planning to split the development cost across two titles.
As it stands, the engine used in Frontiers is already capable of incorporating a lot of SA1’s gameplay. Not only is it more tailored to an actual 3D environment unlike boost, but mechanics like reticle targeting and projectile attacks for Gamma, combat for Knuckles, and even goddamn fishing are already in there lol.
Iizuka is a pretty professional guy in interviews and doesn’t really offer more information than what the company can officially give. So the glut of interviews referencing Adventure can either be interpreted as a way to get older fans excited, or an accurate reflection of their plans. Considering the direction of Frontiers, I think it’s their actual plans.
That said, I just hope he realizes how important the game feel of Sonic Adventure is to fans and not just the scope, spectacle, presentation, etc. It’s not a case of a new classic title like Mania needing to be as close to 1-to-1 as possible, but Adventure should feel like Adventure and not another game in its clothing. The Roblox game and the Adventure mod on SRB2 are great approximations for example.
I feel like Iizuka knows a new Sonic Adventure or a remake would have rather unrealistic expectations for it, so he wants to be absolutely sure that it can live up to it. If we're talking practically, a new game wouldn't live up to the original.
A lot of the quirks people love about those games are mostly products of their time and can't exactly be replicated.
Its one of the reasons I don't even think they should, especially if we look at how fangames interpret "Adventure gameplay".
I can see where you're getting at.
Any attempt by Iizuka could end up as an re-interpretation of the formula, not a proper revival of it.
And fans would end up smashing and burning it to pieces, in a way or another.
I can agree there's no longer a way to appease the fandom, due to how fragmented it is nowadays.
I definitely agree SA2 has that problem, among other problems with it’s level design. (Still prefer it to SA1 due to it’s greater level of difficulty.)
And I will acknowledge that Sonic’s speeds and floatiness in those fangames invalidates much of the level design and causes Sonic to spend more time in the air than interacting with the level, leading to less and less interesting gameplay than it could be. (Though again, I am of that opinion that is more of a level design issue than control)
I do not see at all however how those points about the heavily-momentum based fangames takes away from the feeling of traversing a world rather than a level. In fact, I’d dare say GT sells that feeling better than any 3D Sonic game Sega has made….
The scale of the world and how much it’s explorable rather than background crap, it’s cohesion, and just it’s general aesthetics and level pieces really make me wonder if we could be talking about the same stuff here.
And yeah. Everyone probably takes something different away from the Adventure games as far as why they are beloved.
I love the detail of the architecture of SA1. I love how many unique setpieces there are. I like how many varying structures there can be to an area, like the great shaft of Final Egg, the climb up Twinkle Park's castle, and the rides from peak to peak in Red Mountain. I love when the theme of the level can directly inform its layout in unique ways, and that's something I feel that many 3D games in this series don't accomplish as well.
I enjoy these smaller, tighter environments. I don't mind a Sonic that moves at SA1-level speeds, and wouldn't even mind if he got nerfed a bit as necessary.
I'd like a remake but I don't trust them to keep this feeling of the game that I enjoy so much about it.
Me, basically right now:
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