don't click here

Do you consider 3D Blast a "mainline" game?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by JaredAFX, Apr 15, 2023.

Do you consider 3D Blast/Flickies' Island a "mainline" game?

  1. Yes

    31 vote(s)
    32.3%
  2. No

    53 vote(s)
    55.2%
  3. Yes and Chaotix is also a mainline game

    12 vote(s)
    12.5%
  1. JaredAFX

    JaredAFX

    You telling me a shrimp fried this rice? Member
    909
    70
    28
    Florida
    Downloading megahertz
    We all know there was a gap in "main series" games between the Genesis and the Dreamcast, but when did that gap start? Was it after S&K or was it after 3D? I ask because I started thinking about it and I legitimately don't know. I suppose Generations would dictate that it was S&K, but do we agree with that?
     
  2. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    2,409
    1,010
    93
    No I don't. AFAIK Sega never treated it as mainline.


    When it was revealed it was treated a "lesser" title to X-treme, much like the SMS/GG games were to S1-3K.

    It was skipped over by this list.

    Nowadays it's ignored by Sega. Classic games like S1-3K and CD get brought up and referenced all the time, while S3DB is ignored like other spin-offs.
     
  3. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

    SAY HELLO TO MY CHOCOLATE BLEND Member
    3,101
    2,739
    93
    Sonic 3D Blast is mainline as far as I’m concerned. It was co-developed by Sonic Team and had an impact on future titles, introducing elements (the homing attack, music, single-button spin-dash) that future games would incorporate or expand on. It being on lesser hardware (Genesis vs. Saturn) isn’t relevant to me — the Advance and Rush games are mainline games in spite of being on less-powerful handheld devices. Don’t see why 3D Blast is different.

    I don’t think “mainline vs. spin-off” really matters in terms of the bigger picture, but that’s my take
     
  4. Chimpo

    Chimpo

    I Gotta Be Me Member
    8,837
    1,721
    93
    Los Angeles, 2029
    Don't Forget! Try Your Best!
    I consider it a Sonic game
     
    • Agree Agree x 10
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. Despatche

    Despatche

    Member
    80
    11
    8
    There are six major projects for the Mega Drive and its add-ons, released year after year:
    • Sonic The Hedgehog (1991)
    • Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (1992)
    • Sonic The Hedgehog CD (1993)
    • Sonic The Hedgehog 3 [& Knuckles] (1994)
    • Chaotix (1995)
    • Sonic 3D (1996)
    Anything else is either historical revisionism, or some obviously incomplete yet official document taken sorely out of context, both stemming from a personal dislike for some of the listed games. Let's not even talk about Hyper Tails, either...

    The above post refers to the game list in Adventure 2, and neglects to mention that CD (overwhelmingly considered to be an important game by basically everyone ever) was also excluded from that list, as well as Chaotix (which becomes very funny when Heroes comes out right after Adventure 2), yet puts Jam of all things on the list as its own entry. That says absolutely nothing about "canonicity" and everything about how little respect some part of Sonic Team had for CD, Chaotix, and 3D. These are not "Sonic Team games" any less than Sonic 2 was. We should not respect this disrespect.

    There's also something to be said about Fighters and R. Fighters then implicates the Game Gear games. This is a touchier subject, and I'm not totally sure how to reconcile it without treating Spinball or Mean Bean Machine as more important than they were ever meant to be. If nothing else, S1GG, S2GG, Chaos, and Triple Trouble seem to be pretty important. The Drifts probably are too, for the same reason as Fighters or R.

    SegaSonic (the game) also goes somewhere for much of the same reasons (especially with Mighty in Chaotix, and especially now with Mighty and Ray in Mania), and "SegaSonic" as a brand still needs investigating.

    Chaotix and 3D are "ignored" because they are actively disliked, no other reason. Same reason why Sega wants to pretend the Storybook games never existed. Same reason why Battle is not seen as the prologue to Advance 3 that it actually is. Disrespect this disrespect! These games deserve better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2023
  6. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    2,409
    1,010
    93
    The difference is, CD was bumped up to mainline status by Sega in later years.

    3D was never officially treated as mainline. Neither in its day nor in later years.

    As for the Storybook games, Sega outright called them spin-offs IIRC.
     
  7. charcoal

    charcoal

    Be Cool, Be Wild, and Be Groovy Member
    1,147
    1,095
    93
    It wasn't included in Generations as a stage or boss so it's not mainline.

    I don't think "it's only not acknowledged because it's disliked" is a good argument either because 06 is despised, and it got a whole stage and is still regularly acknowledged in the form of Sonic Channel artwork to this day.
     
  8. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    2,471
    612
    93
    I think it's one of those sort of games that leans more into spinoff territory but is still to some level homaged throughout the franchise, such as music remixes and Origins even having Flickies Island. Sonic Team actually having some part in its development likely helps.

    I think of it as similar to Chaotix, Riders or Rush, they're not 'mainline' games but stuff like the characters are still considered part of the official Sonic franchise, just 3D Blast doesn't really introduce content that demands reference on a regular basis.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  9. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

    Oldbie
    1,342
    1,267
    93
    Yes, and Chaotix too.

    And I'll keep pushing it until they are fully playable again for a wider audience in the best quality reasonable possible.
     
  10. Despatche

    Despatche

    Member
    80
    11
    8
    Where are you getting this information? CD is far too important to the understanding of the mid '90s. It was the sole Sonic Mega-CD project (of at least three) that survived and finally released. The PC version was a keystone of the entirety of Sega PC, to the point that the rerelease of CD in Gems Collection is specifically the PC version (which is bizarre and not really something Sega does). Likewise, 3D was developed explicitly to make a game Americans and Europeans really wanted (a new Sonic) on a platform Americans and Europeans supposedly liked better (the Mega Drive). It was simultaneously advertised as the Sonic on Saturn. It was the big Sonic game after 3, and it was the only "big" thing coming out any time soon on any platform.

    So if Sega can just promote and demote games whenever they want, why should we be so concerned about what are essentially the whims of a cruel god? The Dimps games pretty much never get mentioned anywhere, but nobody unironically denies they are anything but honest attempts to make serious 2D Sonic games in an era where Sonic was primarily 3D, so they are considered to be important. Here's what else is important: the developers of Secret Rings wanted to make a genuinely new kind of Sonic game. You don't relegate such an important idea to a mere "spinoff". Likewise, Riders and Shadow are far too high effort to be treated as mere spinoffs, never mind that Shadow directly follows from Adventure 2 even if one were to pretend that Heroes doesn't exist either. Unsurprisingly, many reviewers saw Secret Rings as the next big Sonic game after 06 (very important considering the development history of these two games), and if nothing else SR was seen as a better effort than 06. This might be the sole reason why SR commands somewhat more respect than BK.

    06 is a completely different case in every single possible way. It was unquestionably the next big Sonic game to a degree that cannot be dodged no matter how hard one tries; imagine trying to make something like Sonic 3 or Sonic Adventure 2 out to be spinoffs, for ANY reason. It is an exception that does not disprove the rule of multiple explicit attempts to bury so-called "black history", such as pretending that SegaSonic and Chaotix don't exist outside of weirdly specific cameos (that likely had to be fought for), completely delisting the Storybook games because of Metacritic scores (lol), having to first force a reboot for the extremely longrunning Archie comic series due to deranged legal issues, having to then force the world to pretend that the Archie comics never happened due to the exact same deranged legal issues, and so on.

    At some point it becomes clear that Japan uses the concept of "spinoffs" in a completely different way from Americans and Europeans, and Sonic starts to look more like Dragon Ball (go figure) where basically everything made in Japan or heavily involving the source Japanese company/ies is canon to some degree. I hear that people are confused about the recent live action movies because they seem to exist in their own little bubble, completely separate from everything else Sega is doing, and despite seemingly being extremely important to the current understanding of Sonic as a brand.
     
  11. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    2,409
    1,010
    93
    It all boils down to one thing. Sega decides what is mainline and what isn't because they own the franchise. Any personal criteria of yours is just an unofficial categorization.

    For instance, Chaotix began development as a core game but it was deliberately re-tooled as a Knuckles spin-off under Sega's orders. The fact its developers intended it to be a core game at first is irrelevant.
     
  12. Despatche

    Despatche

    Member
    80
    11
    8
    You seem to have an awful lot of faith in Sega, which is interesting considering Sega and the Sonic fanbase seemed to be at war until very recently. I just hope there is never a changing of the guard at Sega which causes something you personally like to be erased from "canon". That is all.
     
  13. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    I only owned Sonic 1-3 + Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, and really felt like I was missing out on something once I learned Sonic 3D was a thing. Same goes for Chaotix. So, I consider those canon. A bit on the fence about Sonic Spinball, though.
     
  14. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    2,409
    1,010
    93
    We're not talking about canon here. Spin-offs can be (and in many instances, are) canon.
     
  15. The Game Collector

    The Game Collector

    Member
    939
    19
    18
    Washington State, USA
    Being Ted Narcotic's bass player; working on Kelly Kristjanson's tape archive; collecting video games
    I definitely consider it a mainline game because it includes so many of the core elements of the mainline games. Just because it changed the view perspective doesn't take away from the gameplay experience where you run and jump, gather rings, smash robots to save animals, use shields, invincibility and power sneakers, collect chaos emeralds from special stages, collect extra lives and continues and defeat Robotnik on the final act of each zone. It even introduces a new move, the "blast attack" which is a homing attack only provided by the gold shield. Something that expands on the shield powerup effects introduced in Sonic 3. To me it is the perfect transition between the 2D games and Adventure.

    Knuckles Chaotix also has a lot of core elements but the random level selection does make it kind of deviate a bit. It's also harder to define it as mainline when it lacks Sonic. I would say 3D Blast is more mainline than Chaotix, but Chaotix has enough core elements and story to include it in one of these lists.

    I see the Game Gear games as an alternate timeline of the events of the same mainline games, just simplified for handheld gaming/weaker hardware. Sonic 1 & 2 for Game Gear are like Sonic 1, Sonic Chaos and Triple Trouble are like Sonic 2 and 3 (first half), and Sonic Blast is like Sonic & Knuckles with a hint of 3D Blast elements graphically but in 2D.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2023
  16. Despatche

    Despatche

    Member
    80
    11
    8
    Yeah, see, it's very clear that Sonic Spinball is something completely different from everything else that was being made at the time, even compared to something like Fighters or R. Spinball has far less to do with what Sega (of Japan) was making and far more to do with other STI games like Kid Chameleon, Comix Zone, etc. You could say it's part of STI canon, itself pretty darned important and entwined with "main" Sonic by virtue of Sonic 2 (at least), that's for sure.
     
  17. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    It's in Origins, so, yeah ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    [​IMG]
     
  18. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

    SAY HELLO TO MY CHOCOLATE BLEND Member
    3,101
    2,739
    93
    As far as I know, Sega has never released an official mainline/spin-off designation. It’s different from Mario or Zelda, in which Nintendo has explicitly distinguished what’s mainline and what’s a spin-off. So I don’t think “Sega doesn’t treat it as mainline” is a valid argument when it comes to 3D Blast’s status.
     
  19. I absolutely consider it a main entry of the series, easily serving as one of Sonic's post-3K solo adventures. Members of Sonic Team, including Iizuka and Yasuhara, came up with the overall design and maps. I wouldn't be surprised if they outlined the plot as well.
     
  20. Despatche

    Despatche

    Member
    80
    11
    8
    Yeah like, I feel like Sega of Japan considers Spinball to be important to some degree because it was by STI, literally contains scrapped Sonic 2 art, released on the Mega Drive with no add-ons or anything, etc. Additionally, Spinball did get released in Japan, unlike Sonic 3D for the longest time. Most (wait actually all???) STI games did get Japan releases, amazingly.

    (wow, EVERY one of the American STI games got a Japanese release, even Dick Tracy of all things)