Design a 3D Sonic game!

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by VB.NET, Jan 21, 2010.

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  1. VB.NET

    VB.NET

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    You work for SEGA. You have been asked to design a new 3D Sonic Adventure title. You must look at what made the previous Adventure games succeed and draw your inspiration from them. You must provide concept art/sketches, story ideas and gameplay concepts. SEGA is taking their time with this game so the deadline is far away. Get designing!

    This is a chance to get creative Sonic fans! You can even work together as groups to make your own concepts. Who knows, some day your dream 3D Sonic may become a reality! Character artwork, Needlemouse-style badnik sketches, demo compositions, storyboards/story outlines, 3D models, event structures, it's all allowed!

    NOW GO!
    [​IMG]

    Here's some screens for inspiration!
    [​IMG]

    NOTE: You don't have to design a WHOLE game, you can just contribute little sketches, basic story outlines, etc. I just want to see what people want the next 3D Sonic to be like, and create a fun thread where people can get artistic. If you consider this a 'troll post' then don't reply at all.
     
  2. Dude

    Dude

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    what sort of troll is this? Are you serious or is this hypothetical?
     
  3. Syniphas

    Syniphas

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    <!--quoteo(post=398681:date=Jan 21 2010, 07:06 PM:name=VB.NET)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VB.NET @ Jan 21 2010, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=398681">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You work for SEGA.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I quit.
     
  4. trakker

    trakker

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    Dose not compute
     
  5. Tweaker

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    It's a hypothetical situation, people. If you aren't going to make an on-topic reply, then don't.
     
  6. First do away with paths. Light speed dash was bad enough, then they just plain stripped away the 'adventure' part in Sonic Adventure 2 by adding Soap shoes and rails.

    Second, make it a 3D side scrolling game (2.5D?) because that seems to be the trend nowadays, plus it looks way cool and allows for more paths and exploring.

    Third, do away with gimmicks like hoverboards and warehogs. Bring back real story lines please.

    Forth, it seems less emphasis is put on Sonic, and more is put on dumbass side characters that are only seen once. Make the Sonic game MORE ABOUT SONIC.

    And Fifth. Is it just me, or do Sonic games after Sonic Adventure seem..rushed? Don't rush the production! Sega is apparently putting quantity over quality. And it sucks.
     
  7. A game where there are absolutely no endless holes whatsoever to make up for the over-obsessively amount there have been in Sonic games lately.
     
  8. Ok.

    1st: There are 2 kinds of levels.

    The Speed levels and the Platforming levels.

    GAMEPLAY

    Speed levels are 2.5D side-scrolling goodness. You need to think quick and act quick to dodge obstacles. These levels connect locations. This is UNDER YOUR OWN POWER. No boosts, no Quick-Time events...none of that. You can go faster with Spindash and momentum gained from hills.

    Platforming Levels involve a less emphasis on speed and more on platforming. These levels are the main levels, where jumping and moving slower are necessary. They are NOT changing the way the game is played. You still have to build up momentum to do certain things, however we are now in a fully 3D environment. Homing attack? Nope. You use your Spindash and hills as before. Camera is behind Sonic at a fair distance and only moves when necessary. More speed = More paths/routes, so get your speed up to see the many ways that these levels can be beaten!

    You want multiple characters, right kiddies?
    Here they are: Tails and Knuckles.
    Each has special abilities allowing you to reach areas that Sonic cannot reach. Knuckles breaks walls, glides short distances, and can climb walls. Tails can fly to otherwise unreachable heights.

    STORY:
    The Story lines ARE VIRTUALLY THE SAME. Thus any character can go to any zone. Robotnick has decided to take over the World. Nothing new here.
    Dialog? There will be, but it will not take itself too seriously. And will NOT get too corny or stupid.
    Other characters? Yes, but not playable! Eggman has captured them, and you have to rescue them along with saving the world from Robotnick's wrath!

    EMERALDS: 3D Special Stages?! Yes, and not only that but it is another return of the Sonic 2 Half pipe! Use your momentum in the pipes to reach otherwise unreachable rings. Tunnels allow for rings on all sides. Bouncers, ramps and certain pipes let you take MULTIPLE PATHS to the goal, which one is the better route is for you to decide!

    I think this is pretty decent. I'll add more when I feel like it.
     
  9. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

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    I think this is supposed to be an exercise to simulate the construction of an official Sonic game from start to finish, not "this is what an ideal Sonic game would be like."

    And I would gladly contribute, but I'm already doing something like this in real life.

    Working in a design team, I mean.
     
  10. Shadow Hog

    Shadow Hog

    "I'm a superdog!" Member
    Take Damizean's BlitzSonic engine, tweak the values to perhaps be something more people would appreciate (people kept saying it was slippery, I'd never noticed), and then start building a game out of that - maybe not that literal engine, but gameplay similar to it. It feels pretty similar to Adventure, but was designed with the classic titles in mind, so it's really the best of both worlds.

    Put strong emphasis on a variety of paths that stack on top of each other, preferably used in a similar fashion to how the newer games use bottomless pits. That is, the bottom path will be a bit bland, generally devoid of bonuses, but easy enough that anyone can finish the stage with a little bit of effort, while the top path is more interesting, has far more bonuses, but conversely has far more danger, if not of dying then of falling down and having to retrace your steps and start the path over. This is something the first two 3D Mario games handled well - sure, they had bottomless pits, and they were arguably more linear than Sonic games should be, but with a few exceptions, the only punishment for falling was to land on a lower level, losing a bit of progress made, no lives lost. Unless you fell in the bottomless pits, which were rare enough that it wasn't TOO common.

    Simplify Sonic's controls. There need only be three buttons: jump, duck, and a button to reposition the camera behind your back (like most games have had since Ocarina of Time introduced it - including 2K6, although I'd prefer Ocarina's "swinging" motion to 2K6's instantaneous "pop"). Ideally, all face buttons will jump, one trigger will duck, another trigger does the camera, the left stick moves while the right stick moves the camera. Either way, all his moves can be based on the jump and duck buttons. Jump jumps. Duck ducks. Jumping while ducking initiates Spin-Dash. Ducking while jumping does a bounce attack or ground-slam, something to instantly lose all momentum and stop on a dime if need be. Jumping while jumping either performs the homing attack or the insta-shield from Sonic 3 (and any related Shield moves) - between the two I'd opt for the insta-shield, since I don't think the homing attack is THAT necessary if the controls are implemented accurately enough. Ducking while ducking... is impossible, since you unduck the instant you let go of the button. :psyduck: Ducking while running performs a classic Sonic 1-style Spin Attack, which is generally the safest way to tackle large slopes (since jumping will detach you from the slope, and running into an enemy head-on is only going to get you hurt - screw Rush and Unleashed, Sonic can't just run through enemies and expect to come out unscathed).

    Return to basics in terms of aesthetics. Personally I'd revive the classic Sonic design, but failing that, the Unleashed look is otherwise spot-on - although make his eyelids fleshy-colored again, minor detail but it always bothered me. Also, STOP basing Sonic games in realistic settings! Go back to the kinds of surreal worlds you'd get in the Genesis games - Sonic CD is a good inspiration here, or for a more recent entry, Sonic Heroes (one of the few things said game did right). With regards to some of the other complaints I've seen, though: no, he can stay "Eggman", but he should refer to himself as "Dr. Ivo Robotnik" with "Eggman" being a derogatory nickname coined by Sonic (kind of like the angle they were going with for the first Adventure, and then suddenly ceased with Adventure 2 - it just seems silly to have Eggman calling himself Eggman); no, the planet is Earth, any Mobius-wanting naysayers can sod off (although really, the planet's name shouldn't come up at all, so believe what you want).

    Return to basics in terms of gameplay. Using the really, really basic controls I listed, put more emphasis on momentum. Use it to get up tall heights. Use it to obtain that otherwise unobtainable 1Up on top of that loop-de-loop. Stages should have unique gimmicks that are focused on altering his momentum in some fashion or otherwise using one of his moves to circumvent - for instance, the swings in Mushroom Hill which send you flying upwards if you come at it at enough speed and jump at the right time, or the blocks in Marble Zone that require you hit them spinning to get past, regardless of whether that was a Spin Attack or a jump. Some of these gimmicks should lead to alternate paths, and not be required to complete the stage - getting back to the whole "multiple path" thing.

    Bosses should be relatively simple, should be at the end of a stage instead of their own separate act, and should be designed such that a starting player will take a long time with them if they're seeing them for the first time, whereas a new player will be able to tear them up in less than a minute once they know all the bosses' tricks. Generally, bosses that go wtih the "dodge Eggman's attacks and counterattack at a predetermined point" should be used SPARINGLY, since they've basically been what all the bosses of the modern games are, while the original ones just let you pound into him if you knew what you were doing. They're not a sin, but they shouldn't be every single boss - save it for some of the final bosses, where Eggman's machine would generally be massive and have the mechanic make more sense.

    Music is fine. I've yet to see a Sonic game with bad music - well, except Sonic Chronicles. Black Knight was unmemorable, but not bad. Still, opt out of the rock music - the music from Unleashed or Saturn/PC 3D Blast is more suited for this kind of Sonic game.

    Story? What story? Eggman has captured all of Sonic's friends on X Island and turned them into Badniks, get to saving them, Sonic! All that's needed. We can get into more complex plots (y'know, ones with minor events occurring in between, like S3&K) once we have the important parts - the gameplay - down to a T.

    Concept art? Well, sure, for the stage designs, gimmicks et al. Sonic and Eggman won't need concept art, since they'd be based on their classic designs (which already HAVE plenty of concept art). Badniks, bosses et al would, though.

    That'd probably be enough to cover all the bases. Actually making this game, of course, would be a bit trickier than I'm making it sound - not only do you have the base design to worry about, but you have technical limitations (less so now than then, but you don't want to get lazy with RAM usage or poor algorithm choices), monetary issues, deadlines, executive interference, et al.
     
  11. Zephyr

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    Isn't there already a thread for this?

    My idea for a plot is this:

    Robotnik has taken over the world. He rules over nearly every aspect of the planet with an iron fist, forcing its people into bondage and conformity. It is up to Sonic to save his friends one by one, take back the chaos emeralds and master emerald, and bring the whole system crashing down. Each character you save joins your team, though saving them to begin with is entirely optional, and some are harder to track down than others. Saving them all, AND getting all of the emeralds gives you the good ending.



    Gameplay wise, it would be focused around momentum and exploration, with speed of course as a bonus. Every character can run, jump, roll, and spindash, and each character has a unique air action( flying, gliding, etc).

    Save points take the form of starposts, and at those save points you can adjust your party. Your party can hold up to 4 people, and you can switch between party members at any moment. You can only have someone join your party once you've saved them and had them join your team. And 4 player co-op would be a must.

    No zones, only acts. Each zone would be a massive open world for you to explore and save. To complete a zone all you need to do is track down and defeat the boss, the path you take to reach him is entirely up to the player. If you have 50 rings after the bosses defeat, you are warped into a special stage that plays like the daytime stages of Unleashed, with the rules of the Sonic 2 special stages. If you cannot get the emerald or even enter the special stage you can re-load the game and try again, though you have to re-fight the boss. Once all the emeralds are obtained, you can go super whenever and wherever you want (w/ 50 rings first of course). After completion of the game with the good ending you have the ability to go super without having to re-get the emeralds on your second playthrough.

    And I'm spent.
     
  12. Afti

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    Sonic. Fucking. Metroidvania.

    Know all those useless powers they've given him over the years? Imagine if they were good for something. Place him in Robotnik's latest fortress, and don't let him leave; design a completely nonlinear, varied 3D world with paths blocked by obstacles that can be cleared with the use of new powers, so that you feel like you're getting progressively more powerful and more maneuverable. Sonic starts with the ability to walk/run, roll, and jump; everything else is hidden throughout the game world. There might be a glass pane on the floor of the main courtyard passing over a tunnel; so, you have to find the Bounce Attack and break it. Don't hold the player's hand; drop them in the fortress with the plot of "Robotnik is an asshole. He's in here somewhere. Do what you need to to find him," and let the player figure it out.

    You want shitty powers and "new mechanics"? Fine. But make them not suck.
     
  13. Zephyr

    Zephyr

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    <!--quoteo(post=398759:date=Jan 21 2010, 03:47 PM:name=Afti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Afti @ Jan 21 2010, 03:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=398759">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sonic. Fucking. Metroidvania.

    Don't hold the player's hand; drop them in the fortress with the plot of "Robotnik is an asshole. He's in here somewhere. Do what you need to to find him," and let the player figure it out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Oh bud teh kiddies would whine.
     
  14. Arctides

    Arctides

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    This isn't a visual thing, but I've always noticed that newer Mario games seem to use arrangements and rifts from the older games.
    I wouldn't mind hearing some remixed older tunes in newer games.

    That and I'd like to see some common theme music between the games. Like, we had the same opening theme for the first two games and then the theme music for each game hasn't ever been the same expect for the results music.
     
  15. <!--quoteo(post=398732:date=Jan 21 2010, 05:52 PM:name=RedStripedShoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RedStripedShoes @ Jan 21 2010, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=398732">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this is supposed to be an exercise to simulate the construction of an official Sonic game from start to finish, not "this is what an ideal Sonic game would be like."

    And I would gladly contribute, but I'm already doing something like this in real life.

    Working in a design team, I mean.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It crossed my mind that this is what this thread was meant to be, and then I came to that same conclusion "Why not actually do it?" and just offered my opinions alone because if I go to that much effort, I should probably just do it and make something. Perhaps we could revive BlitzSonic, and THEN simulate building a new Sonic game, because something might actually get done and people would then want to contribute.

    Also, is anyone else having <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=17877" target="_blank">déjà vu</a> or is it just me?
     
  16. Zephyr

    Zephyr

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    <!--quoteo(post=398842:date=Jan 21 2010, 06:22 PM:name=8-Bit Dragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (8-Bit Dragon @ Jan 21 2010, 06:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=398842">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, is anyone else having <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=17877" target="_blank">déjà vu</a> or is it just me?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=398745:date=Jan 21 2010, 03:23 PM:name=Zephyr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zephyr @ Jan 21 2010, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=398745">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't there already a thread for this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Am I invisible or is it just me?
     
  17. VB.NET

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    I'm getting some great responses. :thumbsup: Hopefully this will inspire people to create their own projects for real or incorporate ideas from fellow Retro members in projects they may already be working on. Yes, I am aware that there has been a similar thread, but this thread allows you to share your creative work and ideas both visually and through thorough explanation.
     
  18. I'm liking the more exploration-oriented ideas. In fact, I'd probably pay good money for, say, a Knuckles-oriented game or somesuch. Much in the same way I enjoy the Wario Land games over the Super Mario Bros. mainline titles, I think it would be interesting to see the Sonic equivalent treasure-hunter and all-around tough guy explore and use his own, unique abilities to make the gameplay highly specialized. More vertically-oriented levels with lots of space to climb around, upgrades, even things like digging, not to mention various Emerald-induced powers. Hell, if it weren't for the backlash of Shadow the Hedgehog and the general speed at which "mainline" Sonic titles are released in comparison to some of Nintendo's properties, I could anticipate a multitude of spinoffs for the franchise, like a mech-designing game (could you design a better machine to take out Sonic and his friends?). Not to say that Sonic's fast-paced stages aren't enjoyable, but I think I liked all three of SA2's playstyles in pretty much equal amounts (I was probably the only one decent among my friends at the hunting stages).

    In terms of the core concept of Sonic, though, see <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=17877&st=30&p=364973&#entry364973" target="_blank">this post</a> for my ideas. Not too revolutionary and intentionally ill-defined in terms of content (as to not to build myself into a corner).
     
  19. PicklePower

    PicklePower

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    In my opinion, SA2 was still on the right track. Different routes in stages, a somewhat interesting story, and only two new main characters. So I would make a game like that. Also, <a href="http://gaysonicsong.ytmnd.com/" target="_blank">here's the soundtrack</a> for the game. And the story would be along <a href="http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/494799" target="_blank">these lines</a>.
     
  20. Solid SOAP

    Solid SOAP

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    Keep SA2's physics and controls, only make it so your momentum isn't halted while jumping. Keep level design akin to SA2's speed stages, only with more emphesis on exploration and multiple paths than pure speed. Keep lots of speedy areas in, but perhaps within the multiple routes you can choose between a speedier path; one that will more likely net you a good time bonus if you master it, and a more platform oriented section that will net you more of a ring bonus, maybe you'll find more rare animals for your Chao, more 1-ups, etc. This way fans of speedy twitch gameplay get what they want and so do people who think platforming has more of a precident in Sonic.
     
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