To be fair, Classic Sonic didn't have green eyes. The design evolved to the Dreamcast's 3D. But I see your point, it was just an idle comparison because I do get the impression that it was the intention, until the Sonic Adventure 2 Boos came in.
I've ported various levels to SADX to show the differences. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBcLZMVkgBw Twinkle Park Act 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRYqDs9-raE Sky Deck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDEPwSpj4ro Lost World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvkbMw_z09A Mystic Ruins Garden
Hi there, The link the ISO is down. Does anyone have a mirror of it so I can mirror it on cloud.fuzzcast.com ?
Absolutely incredible how the greatest 3D sonic level Sonic Team ever made was a scrapped prototype. Sigh, now I wish I lived in the world where beta WV was the level design philosophy of the 3D games and not the automated booster-filled mess we got (the actual WV we got is a goddamn travesty in comparison to its original counterpart).
I wouldn't say greatest level, however it was fun. The 3rd part of the level is extremely unclear as to where to go though.
I didn't find the third area's path that unclear TBH. Although I suppose one could make it more obvious with proper camera angles. Anyway, I agree with Frostav about proto WV being fantastic. Or it would have been, if they had designed the engine around it. I think the layout makes it clear that they originally intended for SA1 to play more like the MD games, with momentum-based gameplay and better slope physics. Sadly, the final engine's more dumbed physics aren't very compatible with it, and make many parts of it a chore to play.
The physics are very clear not suited for the level, but I never found it too difficult to navigate. What I adore about it is that it's loops around, it's big enough to let Sonic run around without being suffocatingly huge, there's multiple paths, actual slope challenges, and the whole thing just feels more like a level. Act 3 especially--in comparison the final version's act 3 is a near-straight line of automated booster paths with almost zero platforming. The beta version just begs to be messed around in, to spindash and jump just to see what kind of cool trick you can do, and that's with a neutered physics engine that clearly was shackled by the Dreamcast's limitations. And to be fair, I do actually think SA1 has some well-designed levels like Red Mountain, but just...damn, can you imagine what Red Mountain would look like with this level design philosophy tightened up and improved? Or even all of SA2, with improved physics and camera? I don't mind that the beta WV has a bunch of slopes and ramps just kinda placed everywhere for seemingly no reason, because honestly, Sonic works well in that kind of skatepark level design--where the designers are just like "hey man, here's some ramps, do some cool shit, or just run past it if you want". Where there's more than just linear obstacle and jumping challenges but also places where you can fuck around and fly off slopes, man. Basically every 3D Sonic game (hell, even the ones I like) clearly wants you running all the time because if you stop you realize that not only is there nothing on a side path to find or mess around with but there often ISN'T a side path at all. (god does the camera suuuuuuuuuuuuck in SA1 though and this level really shows how incredibly finicky and miserable it can be)
You know what I still thinks needs doing about this build; fixed stage files; seriously, this build is roughly 8 years old and still several stage files haven't been fixed yet. As a side note, blanking the SET entry for Test Level 1 makes it load.
I don't know how anyone can think the prototype Windy Valley level is anything but a mess. Some of the sections like the below are so mind-blowingly awful that I'm convinced they were only used for testing: The first area is okay, but the section after the tornado is just directionless.
Just look for the arrows indicating the way. They put all kinds of arrows in the level, you can even see some of them in that screen you posted. That particular section from the screen is pretty frustrating to navigate, but as previously noted, the whole level feels like it was designed with the assumption that SA1 would have physics closer to the classics. I can see it being less annoying if you actually gained significant speed from going downhill.
Wasn't stated in an interview that may've been a reason Windy Valley got more streamlined and realistic by production's end?
I sort of feel like the movement for sonic was vastly different for that windy valley, in all the reconstructions i've seen it just doesn't feel correct at all.
Spoken like someone who has no clue what that entails. You have to find every cross-module call and data pointer, figure out what it's supposed to be, then find the equivalent in the existing files. And then it'll only work if all the functions still exist, have the same parameters and return values, and all the data structures stayed the same between the builds. It's actually easier to remake these things in the PC version, because then you can reimplement things in C rather than having to hex edit SH-4 ASM.
If any one has a copy of that interview, please share it, as it sounds interesting, and I'd love to see it.
The closest interview I remember of them mentioning the old Windy Valley was in the Feb 2019 issue of Retrogamer. Iizuka says that he was in charge of the redesign of the "Partially unfinished" Windy Valley, since time was running short and no one could clean up the old version. Earlier in the article they mention how they wanted to make the game generally look realistic to show the graphical prowess of the Dreamcast. I can't see a direct quote linking the two ideas together but it could be assumed loosely.
I can believe that. The final WV flows better, but it feels pretty rushed, short and barebones. IIRC you can beat the third section without ever pressing the jump button
