(DC) Sonic Adventure Prototype (1998-10-16)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Orengefox, May 21, 2013.

  1. British Gaijin

    British Gaijin

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    The EscapeRoute Show
    Sweeeeet.

    Then I'll just sit back for a while and see how this plays out, I'm all excited again.

    [Edit: I just discovered your Mushroom Zone mod. If anybody is ideal for this task, it's you. Super excited.]
     
  2. Woofmute

    Woofmute

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    Such a shame it doesn't work as is in the autodemo, would love to be able to just load it in emulation mode on the dev unit and put the level select to use. A shame that also functions weirdly in this build.
     
  3. Orengefox

    Orengefox

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    Some artwork, a ZZT game, and a hack.
    In case some of you are wondering what Jakeford is on about (as I didn't even know about this until recently); there's a basic level select menu you can actually access in the AutoDemo (you can even access this very level select menu in the final version). You do this by changing the byte at 0x8C768B38 to 02 during a cutscene or demo.

    [​IMG]

    Apart from all the levels and hubs, you can even select your character in this level select menu. The way it's set up reminds me of S2/S3/S&K's level select menu. I found out about this whole level select menu business while looking through tcrf not long ago. It lead me to a topic off assemblers which is where it was first discussed.
     
  4. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    >Egg Mobile 1
    >Egg Mobile 3

    ...probably nothing worth getting excited over, but where's Egg Mobile 2? I imagine one of these is for Egg Viper, what with its own custom arena. But Hornet and Walker load within existing maps.
     
  5. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    The only bosses that actually load within an existing map are Sonic, Knuckles, Gamma and the E-Series, all the others simply appear to be inside an existing area. EGGMOBILE1 is Egg Hornet, EGGMOBILE3 is Egg Viper, and EGGMOBILE2 should be Egg Walker, but is just an empty slot, no file and no code to load a file. Perhaps they hadn't started work on it yet, or hadn't gotten anything ingame yet.
     
  6. Woofmute

    Woofmute

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    Posting for comparison.
    Autodemo level select:

    [​IMG]

    The first battle with E101 is missing in the autodemo list, as is Knuckles' version of Chaos 6. Hot Shelter is missing completely, Eggmobile 2 is missing. The character select uses images and not names, but these don't work properly.

    Initial Japanese Release level select:

    [​IMG]

    Practice levels 2 and 3 are no longer listed, and the Mystic Ruins levels are named now. Chaos 7 is now Chaos 7 1, though there is no entry here for a Chaos 7 2.
     
  7. Dude

    Dude

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    Beta Restoration Progress update:
     
  8. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    Amazing stuff, Dude - looking forward to playing it when it's finished! Still can't believe that this level will be available in some sort of playable form after all the time we've all spent poring over old screenshots of it over the years. Another Sonic "Holy Grail" close to being achieved!

    Very nice to see the "Act 2" section inside the tornado, as well - I heard it'd been found after all (I seem to recall that initially we only thought Acts 1 & 3 had been found), but I don't actually recall seeing anything of it before now, so if any images of model rips etc. were released I guess they've passed me by until now.
     
  9. Super Egg

    Super Egg

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    Sweet Jesus Dude, you've made my cock grow three sizes this day. Like, this, this is amazing. Looking at it, I'm surprised they scrapped the first half of the stage. I mean, I can see where it needs improvements, but outright scrapping? It all makes sense when it's all textured and whatnot. I'm more amazed by the third portion though. With it fully textured, one can truly see what and how the layout was supposed to be. I do have a few questions however.

    1. For Windy Valley 2, is that a custom map based on screens, or did you discover it? I'm not complaining, I find it more interesting than the final version of the Tornado.
    2. In Windy Valley 3, are those springs that are floating supposed to be there, or did you place them to ease the access of getting to the next platforms?
    3. This is more of request, but do you mind showing Gamma's Windy Valley, or are you not quite done with what needs to be?
    4. The little signs that have an arrow. I'm assuming they're custom, where did you get the idea to create them? They fit the level well.
     
  10. evilhamwizard

    evilhamwizard

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    Nice stuff. Level looks a lot more enjoyable with most of the objects in there. I remember seeing a few objects that go unused even in the prototype for some reason.

    Act 2 seems really awkward though, I don't really see too many similiarties with these shots either:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The final's trampoline looks pretty big in comparison. It could be just me since it's unfinished, though.

    Is anyone still working on textures?
     
  11. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    The first screenshot certainly resembles the area seen at 1:33 in Dude's video - however, the scale in relation to Sonic is very different, as are some other more minor details. Is it possible that the models for the floating chunks of level are at the wrong scale somehow, I wonder? If not, I'm guessing it's possible this section went through some major changes during development before being scrapped. Perhaps, if that were the case, some existing sections could have been scaled down at some point in an attempt to create a smaller version of the "Act" as a whole?
     
  12. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Or perhaps the main characters had once a different size, while they were still working on the physics and how they reacted to the level geometry?
     
  13. Dude

    Dude

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    Nope. The level wouldn't be anywhere near as playable if this were the case. My guess is that sonic looks small because he isn't actually standing on the beam, but is falling in 'wind' mode beneath it and just looks like he's standing on it. The camera is pointing directly downwards in that screenshot.

    Also yes, the final trampoline is much bigger. I'm going to have to do some tweaking to the platforms to make the trampolines fit correctly. I took a decent amount of liberties with the tornado section because it is mostly made of SET items, and not level models. One reason I had to redesign some of it is because the beta uses a large amount of object types that simply aren't in the final.

    Edit: I said in a previous edit that there was no spring on the beam in the screenshot, but actually there is one. Look underneath the overlay. Perhaps the beam was bigger in the version in the screenshot? But yeah the spring being where it is in the screenshot definitely proves that the camera is facing down.

    More edits:

    1. Darkspines found the level models. It's official.
    2. The springs in windy valley 3 that are floating are supposed to be the blue/white 'fan' springs that don't exist in the final. I'll probably add a fan to their back so they look abit more appropriate but yes, they are meant to be floating. Their height off the ground is almost a perfect match for the average jump height. They are stupidly easy to jump into.
    3. Haven't started with the other character layouts. Not sure if they even have SET or CAM layouts. If not I'll have to make them from scratch (no big deal though really)
    4. NOT custom. All of the decoration models that were originally object models (object models were also found by Darkspines) have been converted into level models, for several reasons, not the least of which being that it makes the lighting look better.
     
  14. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    Thanks for the clarification, Dude. Interestingly enough, there's footage of the section in action at 1:00 in this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CBelC5yHfw

    Might be useful for reference, might not - either way, I'm guessing that it's possible at least some things are different in the version of the stage files that we have access to when compared to some of the footage here. Also includes some footage of the "Act 3" section, showing that the floating diagonal springs were the odd prototype blue springs at the stage of development the video was recorded at.
     
  15. evilhamwizard

    evilhamwizard

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    Another thing that came to mind that I forgot to check myself, but does the AutoDemo have P2PATH data for Sonic's AI in the Tails levels in 1ST_READ or the STG bin? I wonder if they ever got around to adding Tails' racing gameplay to the early Windy Valley before they redid the level. Judging by earlier screenshots and video, it does seem like Tails/Gamme did have their own SET file for the stage at some point. But it doesn't look like they added the racing part with Sonic in Tails' stages.

    The AutoDemo still has the initial starting coordinates for Tails for the stage at 8C16F4E0 (0x15F4E0) in 1ST_READ, and maybe other characters like Gamma (or Big).

    EDIT 2: I just checked the AutoDemo for Windy Valley coordinates for any other character besides Sonic and Tails. Big unfortunately doesn't have initial coordinates for Windy Valley. Gamma, however, still has entries for every act in Windy Valley for some reason:

    Did this quick in IDA Pro, didn't create a proper struct for the initial coordinates. Sorry for the ugly:

    Code (Text):
    1. ROM:8C16FE18 InitGammaCoordList:.data.w 2            ; DATA XREF: sub_8C044E4A:loc_8C044FA0o
    2. ROM:8C16FE18                                         ; ROM:PTR_InitGammaCoordListo
    3. ROM:8C16FE1A                 .data.w 0
    4. ROM:8C16FE1C                 Vector3 <256.0, 60.0, -885.0>
    5. ROM:8C16FE28                 .data.l 0
    6. ROM:8C16FE2C                 .data.w 2
    7. ROM:8C16FE2E                 .data.w 1
    8. ROM:8C16FE30                 Vector3 <694.0, -113.0, -205.0>
    9. ROM:8C16FE3C                 .data.l 0
    10. ROM:8C16FE40                 .data.w 2
    11. ROM:8C16FE42                 .data.w 2
    12. ROM:8C16FE44                 Vector3 <0, 700.0, 0>
    13. ROM:8C16FE50                 .data.l 0
    14.  
    Tails only has Act 3's coordinates for Windy Valley, which makes sense.

    I'm not too familiar with how the Sonic path data is used in Tails' levels, but I think I found P2PATH struct data at 8C126D08 (00116D08). :

    [codebox]ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH_DataLast:P2PATH <0, <-512.0, -1.0, 5.0>> ; DATA XREF: sub_8C06B7AC+Ao
    ROM:8C126D08 ; sub_8C06B7AC:off_8C06B82Co ...
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <-44.363995, -1.3419999, 5.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <393.14096, -91.009003, 13.210999>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <760.42499, -470.45996, 21.419001>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <791.0, -513.41998, 255.39299>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <1183.3859, -737.89203, 307.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <1519.817, -1101.347, 307.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <1819.3978, -1318.5369, 328.57898>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <2014.847, -1447.4498, 476.00699>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <2125.751, -1302.2819, 647.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <2262.5537, -1282.1378, 770.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <2470.5, -1247.425, 770.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <3751.6667, -1301.6879, 270.98001>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4131.5903, -1317.026, 281.09198>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4509.5156, -1464.402, 355.03796>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4861.0864, -1590.545, 800.45099>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5199.9819, -1698.1071, 1065.416>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5305.9038, -1609.989, 1257.4779>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5080.0, -1585.6909, 1458.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4869.3955, -1468.9238, 1620.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4645.0669, -1420.854, 1668.001>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4567.77, -1347.963, 1668.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4315.2891, -1403.5538, 1668.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4057.8569, -1444.854, 1668.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <3937.064, -1316.854, 1574.998>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <3519.9871, -1301.854, 1456.9469>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <2661.9751, -1177.854, 1770.658>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <2691.3159, -1281.1029, 2579.3418>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <3200.0, -1451.2749, 3050.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <3590.0, -1482.2489, 3150.0>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <3875.05, -1480.5291, 3571.3977>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <3926.8508, -1870.2039, 3743.5359>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4126.3457, -1906.095, 3841.7549>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4551.6421, -1918.319, 4043.708>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4772.5479, -1852.053, 4075.574>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4884.6265, -1831.6168, 3937.5339>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4936.9961, -1880.8521, 3734.5391>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4796.0156, -1880.8521, 3617.8408>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4637.5972, -1880.8521, 3694.1311>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4362.3989, -1879.1331, 4102.8672>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4379.0742, -1880.854, 4344.9375>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4631.1357, -1842.854, 4685.9668>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <4926.812, -1849.3978, 4866.5884>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5274.8921, -1893.5679, 4876.145>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5588.2583, -1836.8859, 4879.541>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5962.958, -1800.854, 5128.3398>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <6191.2061, -1800.854, 5339.645>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <6075.3452, -1708.9669, 6083.4541>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5819.3247, -1749.059, 6448.7046>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5589.564, -1718.8009, 6645.085>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5382.9438, -1688.541, 6632.1909>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5293.833, -1638.281, 6494.6685>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5305.0781, -1645.2659, 6352.333>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5432.4058, -1661.158, 6258.0552>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5594.27, -1730.8389, 6263.4014>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5688.6787, -1785.949, 6385.0625>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5650.1162, -1901.277, 6725.4321>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5629.0469, -2026.777, 6834.9824>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5590.6611, -2183.5747, 6965.8335>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5506.4326, -2257.854, 7257.9204>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5421.3384, -2299.7771, 7561.3804>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5580.7617, -2300.4707, 7777.3691>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5707.5098, -1943.4301, 7881.2441>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <5953.8672, -1890.854, 8003.6646>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <6904.1523, -1886.4729, 8434.8135>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <7417.8804, -2206.519, 9534.5117>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <8618.2197, -2321.156, 9641.501>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <9364.3418, -2236.0918, 10109.711>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <9990.7822, -1980.5609, 10117.021>>
    ROM:8C126D08 P2PATH <0, <10360.079, -1977.2208, 10197.411>>
    [/codebox]

    The only reason I think this is because there's data similar to this in sonic.exe at 007E1D98. But I'm certain this is just animation data for some object (since the RotationAnimData and PositionAnimData structs are the same size). As a side note, there's no initial coordinate for Tails in Casinopolis in the AutoDemo yet. But I think I saw Hot Shelter coordinates for Amy, even though that level is no where present in this version.
     
  16. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    Animation data wouldn't have all zeroes for the first number, they would be frame numbers. Although the racing paths have nonzero values in some of those numbers too...

    Too bad we don't have an extractor for AI paths or a path visualizer yet.
     
  17. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    It's amazing what you can figure out texture-wise from prototype screenshots etc. - for example, I've just realised the texture seen at 2:05 in Dude's video (currently a placeholder set of "68"s) is actually intended to be upward facing arrows on wood panelling, which you can see in a screenshot on this page at Sonic CulT (search for the description "very different trampoline"). It must be quite a lengthy process to figure out what should be what texture-wise and then recreate it!
     
  18. evilhamwizard

    evilhamwizard

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    A few things for Windy Valley.

    Still can't locate the P2PATH data for Tails yet. But I was curious to see what resources we had to create textures with. Unfortunately we don't have many direct captures of the level, especially the second and third act. Besides the screenshots given to the press with Tails, the snippets in the opening FMVs, and this image from Amy's flashback cutscene:

    [​IMG]

    ...we don't have much to work with. I was curious if maybe we can find a better rip of the Tokyo International Forum tape somewhere that maybe we can get reference shots from.

    Also, the bridge that connects the area with the fountain to the other floating island in Act 3 is actually supposed to be untextured I think, just light blue. I noticed in the video you gave it a texture. Take a look at the screenshot above and this screenshot:

    [​IMG]

    I also noticed the water in Act 1 has the wrong textures. I think they were using the water textures that are used in the pool area of Pleasure Castle, just with more frames of animation.

    Just wanted to point these out just in case.

    EDIT: I just noticed the big gears in that image of Act 3 I linked. I never noticed that before, I just thought they were turbines. I recall seeing 'WHELE' in the object list, that metal crate (from the Egg Carrier) I don't recognize though.
     
  19. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    Also of note, in the same vein as the above post: these two screenshots on Sonic CulT, including what I think is the only direct-feed screenshot of the prototype Windy Valley's "Act 1" section that I've ever seen. All the rest I've seen from that section of the level have been grabs from videos. It looks pretty early, though, as the "Act 3" screenshot is using a very early-looking background that's been replaced with something closer to the final in all the other shots I've seen.
     
  20. MainJp

    MainJp

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    [​IMG]

    Here's a little image of proto Windy Valley 'Act 1' that I grabbed a long time ago that I've never seen anywhere else, it's not much.