Confirmed: Michael Jackson DID compose music for Sonic 3

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by jmr, Dec 3, 2009.

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  1. Zephyr

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    <!--quoteo(post=380413:date=Dec 2 2009, 06:39 PM:name=Bibin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bibin @ Dec 2 2009, 06:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380413"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unsatisfied with the sega sound? What an elitist douche; it sounds great.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    My thoughts EXACTLY.
     
  2. The KKM

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    <!--quoteo(post=380799:date=Dec 3 2009, 10:43 PM:name=Zephyr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zephyr @ Dec 3 2009, 10:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380799"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=380413:date=Dec 2 2009, 06:39 PM:name=Bibin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bibin @ Dec 2 2009, 06:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380413"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unsatisfied with the sega sound? What an elitist douche; it sounds great.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    My thoughts EXACTLY.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    As said before, imagine yourself as a perfectionist and well-established musician having to work with a soundchip that while good is nowhere even near a vinyl recording, for an example.

    Yeah, I'd be pretty pissed too.
     
  3. Shadix

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    <!--quoteo(post=380660:date=Dec 3 2009, 10:20 AM:name=jmr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jmr @ Dec 3 2009, 10:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380660"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: And I'm also being told that it was "quasi-confirmed at MAGFest 7" by Howard Drossin.
    Still, it's great having someone close to MJ come out and explicitly say that he worked for the game, and give a potential reason for why he wasn't credited.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Pretty much (I was at MAGfest 7 and got to know Drossin pretty well too), the question just came down to what he actually composed that made it into the game. Basically the credits are all screwy, because some if not most of the tracks were actually composed by uncredited japanese composers, including Lava Reef and the Final Boss Theme from the little listening session we had with Drossin. A notable example of this is that Jun Senoue has claimed in interviews to have composed one of the Special Stage themes.

    It wasn't a question of whether or not MJ was involved, we had all the proof we needed besides first hand reference for that. We just didn't have any proof that the music made it into the game, or anything regarding Stranger in Moscow.

    Someone should have asked Buxer about Blood on the Dancefloor and the Knuckles beat lol.
     
  4. Zephyr

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    <!--quoteo(post=380802:date=Dec 3 2009, 02:48 PM:name=Koi Kami Mauro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koi Kami Mauro @ Dec 3 2009, 02:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380802"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=380799:date=Dec 3 2009, 10:43 PM:name=Zephyr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zephyr @ Dec 3 2009, 10:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380799"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=380413:date=Dec 2 2009, 06:39 PM:name=Bibin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bibin @ Dec 2 2009, 06:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380413"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unsatisfied with the sega sound? What an elitist douche; it sounds great.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    My thoughts EXACTLY.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    As said before, imagine yourself as a perfectionist and well-established musician having to work with a soundchip that while good is nowhere even near a vinyl recording, for an example.

    Yeah, I'd be pretty pissed too.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    But he was making GAME music, not a new album. Unless his head was so big that he thought that they WOULD turn it into an album just because his name was on it.
     
  5. Korou Tenshi

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    It's so great to see this confirmed after all this time. After MJ's death I was sure it'd be something we'd never know about for sure. This is fantastic news
     
  6. muteKi

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    <!--quoteo(post=380694:date=Dec 3 2009, 12:58 PM:name=LOst)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LOst @ Dec 3 2009, 12:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380694"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=380682:date=Dec 3 2009, 09:23 PM:name=muteKi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (muteKi @ Dec 3 2009, 09:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380682"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=380646:date=Dec 3 2009, 10:11 AM:name=Mad Echidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad Echidna @ Dec 3 2009, 10:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380646"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yeah I really would like to know who composed the Sonic & Knuckles boss music. It fits the overal saga of Sonic 3 & Knuckles SO much better. When I first played Sonic and Knuckles by itself and heard Knuckles' theme and the miniboss I was pretty much like what the shit since I was used to the lock on stuff<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Probably Drossin, since it was to replace other music in the game.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=18507&view=findpost&p=380668" target="_blank">http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?s=&...st&p=380668</a>

    And Drossin was never really included in the Sonic 3 team to begin with, and both boss music used in S&K alone are included in the Sonic 3 "alone" sound test. Read the link above on why not to assume anything. There are several composers listed as Sega Sound Team in Sonic 3's credits that could have composed the boss music.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well, Knuckles' Theme and the title music for S&K are almost certainly by Drossin; they got a release on the Virtual Sonic album. I'm pretty sure that the continue music and the extra life music are both by Drossin as well, as I believe in the S3D ROM data they're credited to him. We agree on that. Note that the continue music <I>is also in Sonic 3</I>, which is apparently the reason you assume that the other song isn't by Drossin.

    I'll admit, it might not be true, but it would generally match the official story.

    Incidentally, you'll note that even the guys working on the game didn't think that the Sonic 3 mid-boss music was very good as a song for an intense boss encounter -- keep in mind that it's what originally plays during Hydrocity Act 1's boss, at least unless that drowning music starts up.
     
  7. Shadix

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    <!--quoteo(post=380668:date=Dec 3 2009, 10:43 AM:name=LOst)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LOst @ Dec 3 2009, 10:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380668"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=380431:date=Dec 3 2009, 06:48 AM:name=MathUser)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MathUser @ Dec 3 2009, 06:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380431"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also want to remind people of how some Sonic 3 music was changed in Sonic & Knuckles collection. I think we can correctly assume that is Micheal Jacksons music and the rest is Howard Drossin.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Please DON'T assume anything not confirmed with Howard Drossin. Howard Drossin did compose the title screen music, continue music, and Knuckles theme for Sonic & Knuckles. Nothing else has been confirmed with him. And he was killed in that chat when people tried to poke Lava Reef out of him with sticks when Chris Senn was watching. It was TERRIBLE!



    And about Michael Jackson. That's cool that someone FINALLY got Brad Buxer to talk. I mean he has been impossible to contact. Even if Jackson was alive I think Brad would have told us if we had got a chance to talk to him in the first place.

    I have tried to get in touch with Brad Buxer since year 2000. The other MJ composers that are available to talk disappears as soon as the word Sonic 3 is mentioned.

    And it is common for grown ups to hate game music (ask your parents if they want to listen to the whole S3 soundtrack, and if they say yes, you have cool parents!). That doesn't come as a surprise that MJ would be disappointed when he was disappointed about his looks he ripped his own nose off.


    Anyway, start assuming when there are proof. For now, only the composer that did the music you were asking about is considered proof to ME. :eng101:
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Just thought I'd add it was pretty hilarious when they pulled Drossin aside to play Lover Reef for him. Most the people involved were present for the chat too.
     
  8. Chimpo

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    <!--quoteo(post=380807:date=Dec 3 2009, 02:55 PM:name=Zephyr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zephyr @ Dec 3 2009, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380807"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But he was making GAME music, not a new album. Unless his head was so big that he thought that they WOULD turn it into an album just because his name was on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Or maybe the Genesis just has a really shitty sound chip.

    The man was no stranger to games. He owned and played a lot of them.
     
  9. FinalBeyond

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    It certainly seems that Jackson was somewhat of a perfectionist from watching "This Is It", and he'd often be vague about what it was he wanted improved, taking in rather abstract terms, but determined to get the improvements made. It's quite possible the hardware wasn't capable of matching his exact standards, and even if it was, it may have been hard to coordinate what he wanted changed.

    Still, if Masato Nakamura was happy with it, that's good enough for me.
     
  10. Zephyr

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    <!--quoteo(post=380817:date=Dec 3 2009, 03:22 PM:name=Chimpo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chimpo @ Dec 3 2009, 03:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380817"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=380807:date=Dec 3 2009, 02:55 PM:name=Zephyr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zephyr @ Dec 3 2009, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380807"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But he was making GAME music, not a new album. Unless his head was so big that he thought that they WOULD turn it into an album just because his name was on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Or maybe the Genesis just has a really shitty sound chip.

    The man was no stranger to games. He owned and played a lot of them.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I wasn't saying it doesn't, and I wasn't saying he didn't.
     
  11. muteKi

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    <!--quoteo(post=380817:date=Dec 3 2009, 06:22 PM:name=Chimpo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chimpo @ Dec 3 2009, 06:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380817"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=380807:date=Dec 3 2009, 02:55 PM:name=Zephyr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zephyr @ Dec 3 2009, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380807"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But he was making GAME music, not a new album. Unless his head was so big that he thought that they WOULD turn it into an album just because his name was on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Or maybe the Genesis just has a really shitty sound chip.

    The man was no stranger to games. He owned and played a lot of them.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's a good point. He had a large amount of arcade games, many of them from Sega, from what I recall. You'd think he'd be fairly acquainted with the sound of the chip as a result.
     
  12. Rosiero

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    <!--quoteo(post=380812:date=Dec 4 2009, 12:06 AM:name=muteKi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (muteKi @ Dec 4 2009, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380812"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure that the continue music and the extra life music are both by Drossin as well, as I believe in the S3D ROM data they're credited to him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Extra life was by Drossin, Continue by Senoue iirc. It's been ages since I played S3D on Megadrive so I'm not sure which song is the continue music on the wiki, but Drossin is only credited for extra life at any rate.
     
  13. XCubed

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    <!--quoteo(post=380754:date=Dec 3 2009, 03:42 PM:name=Mad Echidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad Echidna @ Dec 3 2009, 03:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380754"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=380688:date=Dec 3 2009, 09:39 AM:name=XCubed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XCubed @ Dec 3 2009, 09:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380688"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=380646:date=Dec 3 2009, 10:11 AM:name=Mad Echidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad Echidna @ Dec 3 2009, 10:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380646"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yeah I really would like to know who composed the Sonic & Knuckles boss music. It fits the overal saga of Sonic 3 & Knuckles SO much better. When I first played Sonic and Knuckles by itself and heard Knuckles' theme and the miniboss I was pretty much like what the shit since I was used to the lock on stuff<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What are you talking about? S&K Miniboss and Knuckles Theme are identical for S&K and S3&K (lock-on). S&K infiltrates the Sonic 3 portion of S3&K so there isn't any difference between the two.


    <!--quoteo(post=380660:date=Dec 3 2009, 11:20 AM:name=jmr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jmr @ Dec 3 2009, 11:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380660"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=380656:date=Dec 3 2009, 07:54 AM:name=SOTI)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SOTI @ Dec 3 2009, 07:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380656"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Finally.
    With that said, I wonder if SEGA would be willing to credit Michael Jackson in any further Sonic 3 releases, even if it's just listed on a collection's manual.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><a href="http://www.sonicwrecks.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1259861977&archive=" target="_blank">This was recently brought to my attention:</a>
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Michael Jackson & Sonic 3 Confirmed... AGES AGO.
    Dear Everyone - YOU'RE TOO SLOWWWW.
    Yes sorry about this but everyones getting all excited about Michael Jackson's involvement with the Sonic 3 soundtrack again being confirmed and its got to the point where my sickly brain is a bit fed up of it. So to all the investigative journalists out there here's a tip.
    Load up SEGA Mega Drive Ultimate Collection / Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection.
    Highlight Sonic 3.
    Go to the museum.
    Scroll to the bottom of the Did You Know section.
    YOU-A WINNARZ! >_<<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't actually own that game, so I have no idea what it says... but still. :facepalm:

    EDIT: And I'm also being told that it was "quasi-confirmed at MAGFest 7" by Howard Drossin.
    Still, it's great having someone close to MJ come out and explicitly say that he worked for the game, and give a potential reason for why he wasn't credited.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Can anyone get a screen cap of this? ArchangelUK's sarcasm irks me to no end. He/She could have at least included the ACTUAL TEXT of what is said about Sonic 3 in the "Did You Know" section. Not everyone wasted their hard earned money on Compliation 157.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Maybe I'm confused. The knuckles theme I don't like is the one with just the drum
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Ah, so you mean <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWx-m-eKTO4" target="_blank">this one.</a>

    I love how this isn't "looped" in the way we think....at 1:10 you hear a random "YEAH!" out of no where.
     
  14. SillyJonna

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    Actually, you also hear it at :35.
     
  15. Vangar

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    Anyone could make that loop... it could be the worst song in any Sonic game.
     
  16. I actually kinda like Knuckles' theme, but only in short doses. I suppose a minute and a half is too much.

    While I can't say this closes everything, it's certainly seems to shed light. Good to learn something new. :)
     
  17. Zephyr

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    <!--quoteo(post=380882:date=Dec 3 2009, 07:59 PM:name=Vangar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vangar @ Dec 3 2009, 07:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380882"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone could make that loop... it could be the worst song in any Sonic game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Are you forgetting Sonic 3's Super Sonic themes?
     
  18. <!--quoteo(post=380404:date=Dec 3 2009, 03:35 AM:name=Blue Streak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blue Streak @ Dec 3 2009, 03:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=380404"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Great news! Finally we can let this controversy rest. Shame that the YM2612 is the reason MJ isn't credited, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah, that is pretty shitty. I have pretty high standards to Genny music and Sonic 3 has one of the best soundtracks I have ever heard from the console.
     
  19. GagaMan

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    Maybe MJ should have collaborated on Sonic CD instead? That way the music could sound exactly like anything else he'd make without the limitations of a sound chip. I doubt the SNES chip would have been good enough for his high standards either, to be honest, though the sampling of his voice would be better on that for sure.

    Personally, I love the Mega Drive sound, when used well which it was in a lot of games (if only a minority of them). But as someone said already the SNES and Mega Drive chips both do things the other cannot.
     
  20. Phos

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    I think that Knuckles theme is the sort of thing that made him want to go uncredited. It almost makes it seem like Ice Cap was a fluke, in terms of composing for the Genesis. It would be nice to get proper accreditation of the specific tracks, though. Project Chaos claims that Howard Drossin composed Doomsday Zone.
     
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