Concept Workbench

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Canned Karma, Oct 19, 2010.

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  1. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Sonic 2 HD, various 3D work
    <b><!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><div align='center'>-- Concept Workbench --</div><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>

    <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->This topic is dedicated to putting out ideas and concept art related to <b>any level art asset or object</b>. If you have questions regarding how something will work in the game, this is <b>not</b> the topic for it -- please post those questions in the <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=20754" target="_blank">General Project Thread</a>. As always, please direct any non-relevant concerns or complaints to myself via PM so I can work to resolve them with you personally.
    <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

    Due to the many questions I've received about moving beyond HTZ for art and concepts for the rest of the game's zones, I've decided to create a centralized, open thread to field them. If there's a certain level asset you've had ideas surrounding, or a visual concept you've kept stashed away, this is your opportunity to present it and have it be discussed.
     
  2. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Holy complete fail at reading comprehension!
    <!--quoteo(post=519588:date=Oct 19 2010, 07:02 PM:name=Canned Karma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canned Karma @ Oct 19 2010, 07:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=519588"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->This topic is dedicated to putting out ideas and concept art related to <b>any level art asset or object</b>. If you have questions regarding how something will work in the game, this is <b>not</b> the topic for it -- please post those questions in the <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=20754" target="_blank">General Project Thread</a>.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    > I don't know whether this has been discussed or suggested yet.
    Probably innumerable times, <I>in the appropriate threads</I>.

    I know backseat modding is not welcome, but this was just too stupid to ignore.
     
  3. Gambit

    Gambit

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    This thread is subtitled ideas and concept art, so technically this is a legitimate area for discussion of multiplayer. Admittedly the OP says it's for art, but I don't see how discussing this a bit could hurt.

    Anyways, to answer your question, yes, we're planning on an extended selection of levels and we'll be allowing different character use since Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles will be in it.
     
  4. Ross-Irving

    Ross-Irving

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    Uhhhh...cool. Guess I'll start pitching shit forward for Oil Ocean Zone then.
     
  5. steveswede

    steveswede

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    What I would really like to see for extras is the inclusion of extra characters for not only 2 player matches, but for the main game as well. I don't know if any of the staff have tried E-122-Psi hacks. But he has done his own custom sprites for characters that not only look amazing. But fit right into the 16 bit classic art style. He has done an excellent sprite sheet for Amy and Sally and is currently working on Cream which is looking amazing.

    Example:

    <img src="http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/slightlytwisted/creamsheet001.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    <img src="http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/slightlytwisted/amysonic1spritesheet01.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><img src="http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/slightlytwisted/sallyinsonic1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    I was wondering if the S2HD team, with E-122-Psi permission of course, would consider tracing these sprites and putting them in. It would definitely add to the replay factor. And would give interesting multiplayer matches, especially if there is going to be more than 2 players in a match.
     
  6. dsrb

    dsrb

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    <I>Tracing</I> being the operative word. But given how glacial progress has been on finishing one character in that way, asking for another three is quite funny.

    I don't like to be one of these people who disparages <I>S2HD</I> for its own sake—but, really, will this ever get done? If so, when it eventually does, will anyone still care? Will it be anything other than a curvier and shiny upscale of the original game? No wonder people are all over <I>Sonic Fan Remix</I>, because it's closer to 'what the development team would have done with today's technology'. Sorry, but all I've seen are fancy upscales and protracted debates over miniscule details.

    Yeah, I know I'll look like a hypocrite, given my earlier post in this topic—and I risk getting all sorts of fruit thrown at me for this in any case—but there you go.
     
  7. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    I thought that that was what Sonic 2 HD was supposed to be from the get go. An upscale of the original game. That's all I really want from a game calling itself "Sonic 2 HD". Sonic Fan Remix is too much for me.
     
  8. dsrb

    dsrb

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    I should have included the caveat that, although <I>SFR</I> is too busy for some, I still think it more closely resembles 'what the devs would have done if they could', which has been cited several times. <b>IMO</b> that's the only aim worthy of the suffix "HD" and an upscale isn't. But OK, that's your opinion.
     
  9. Namo

    Namo

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    I wouldn't mind extra characters, but I'm not sure if they're really necessary. I'd be fine with just the main trio being in, really. Besides, that's another set of sprites to upscale and trace and etc.

    I think the best solution, to please everyone, is to leave Sonic 2 HD open to modification, like your typical Doom Mod.
     
  10. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    The current plan is to include Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles only.

    I suppose it was inevitable that S2HD would draw comparisons with SFR. I think Mercury and Pelikan have done an excellent job, and I said as much in their thread. I've played the demo and I enjoyed it for what it was. And what it aims to be is not what S2HD has as its goal. This will be an overhaul of Sonic 2, in a new art style, in a resolution fitting with current hardware. We'll be adding HPZ at the end, and there's talk of adding more. What more has yet to be set in stone, or even planned around given that we're devoting our full resources to getting the main game done first. None of this is new.

    All I can say without giving too much away in regard to the first release is that the staff is incredibly grateful for your continued patience. You will not be disappointed.
     
  11. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    And I didn't expect to be. For the future, I'd appreciate it if all comparisons to SFR were left out of this forum entirely. I don't mean to metamod, but it's annoying and inappropriate.
     
  12. Namo

    Namo

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    Quite honestly, SFR and Sonic 2 HD are so vastly different in presentation that, frankly, it would be downright stupid to compare them outside of level design.
     
  13. dsrb

    dsrb

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    I'll make this my last reference to <I>SFR</I>, in that case!

    The two may be vastly different, but my point was that in my opinion they might not have been; that the ‘as the game would be made today’ idea would be better served by an approach more akin to the former than the one it has taken. I don't mean that it should be the same; for example, I can see the point of those who say <I>SFR</I> is too busy, though I have no big complaints—but there you have it, my unimportant opinion in print.
     
  14. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    I don't think anyone misunderstood your point. SFR has one style, S2HD has another, they're different games, and it's as simple as that.

    Now then. Concepts workbench thread. So far there's been a couple spritesheets posted but nothing directly relevant to the game. I have specifically asked for stuff for CPZ and DEZ. Rest assured that if no one posts anything for them, the staff will just come up with things on its own, and we won't be accepting much after the fact criticism when the zones are released. Long story short, don't ask us to open up things for discussion if you're <b>not actually going to discuss them.</b>
     
  15. Namo

    Namo

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    Well, me, I can't give feedback or ideas unless I see something first - I'm a visual kinda guy. Remember back in the HTZ forum when the vine-slide was being discussed? I didn't have any 'good' ideas until some art was posted. (comparing it to the Rayman video, etc.)

    Although, if I could make a suggestion on that vine slide, I'm not too keen on it being just a straight, green line. I'm personally all for the vine being a series of smaller vines wrapped together. As for it being too "strong" to break at the end, while Sonic is on the carriage, just have it unwind or something, maybe start out being unwound a little.

    <b>Anyway, my main suggestion: </b> Why not leave S2HD open to modification? (Not open source, I don't think Lost would like that). For example, give the user the ability to make levels and characters and music and tilesets, etc. It would do well for the game's overall longetivity, because to be honest, the thought of playing Sonic 2 hadn't ever crossed my mind until this project was announced, having beaten the original game to completion.

    The player could make level-packs and character packs, basically. After all Sonic 2 has the definitive "best" physics of the classic Sonics, no?
     
  16. dsrb

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    I thought it was common knowledge that it has identical physics, barring the spin dash, different speed caps, and <I>S3</I>’s extra shield moves.
     
  17. The Growler

    The Growler

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although, if I could make a suggestion on that vine slide, I'm not too keen on it being just a straight, green line. I'm personally all for the vine being a series of smaller vines wrapped together. As for it being too "strong" to break at the end, while Sonic is on the carriage, just have it unwind or something, maybe start out being unwound a little.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I suggest that instead of it unwinding from the platform, make it unwind from the vine it's attached to; that way, you could animate the vines [attached to the platform] flapping in the wind as it falls down to its destruction.

    Secondly, I don't see why we can't use a kind of pulley system to move it; seeing as it's already "man"-made, it'd be the most logical way to move something like this. I think the jolt of Sonic's weight can be what gets is to move in the first place:

    <img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4204269284_dc59eba865.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
     
  18. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    <!--quoteo(post=522082:date=Oct 25 2010, 02:31 PM:name=dsrb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dsrb @ Oct 25 2010, 02:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=522082"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...identical physics, barring the spin dash, different speed caps...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Different speed caps and spin dash?
    What exactly does this mean, core team? Just curious. Ya know, get some more stats out.
     
  19. Gambit

    Gambit

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    It means the physics in Sonic 2 and 3 weren't completely identical.
     
  20. dsrb

    dsrb

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    I was talking about the differences between <I>Sonic 1</I> and its sequels, not <I>S2HD</I> in any way. The original had speed caps on ground and in the air. <I>S2</I> removed the ground cap, but kept the air one (or vice versa?) And <I>S3</I> may have removed the other cap, IIRC.

    Edit: I didn't see Gambit's reply; WTF, IPB?
     
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