Complimenting Sonic Adventure 2

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Sonic5993, Oct 5, 2020.

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  1. Mana


    Good! Great! Awesome! Outstanding! Amazing! Member
    Byronic hero who's both a direct counterpart and rival to the main character? Pretty similar to me. Even if they aren't 1:1 the similarities they share in roles are pretty obvious.
  2. Boy I sure do love watching grown adults argue how valid their childhoods were, never gets old.

    I never was really into Chao...because if I wanted to raise small creatures, I had Pokemon on the go. So it was kind of whatever to me, my sister was really into it though. That said, I do acknowledge that it was a concept they never really took advantage of.

    As mentioned, they weren't Sonic...but that's kind of why it was popular probably. You got this time sink you could grind, and it incentivised you replaying the game. And its something casuals ate right up, it's honestly baffling that they never went all in with the concept.
  3. TheInvisibleSun


    Not even their narrative roles were similar though. Goku 1 upped Vegeta in their first encounter, and the latter spent most of the remaining series as a raging arrogant lunatic with a chip on his shoulder willing to risk everything to demonstrate that he was the best. Shadow wasn't like that; dude just knew he was better, and Sonic was just an annoying minor obstruction to his goal. What do they really have in common other than being villains-turned-heroes? Being the same race as the hero? Shadow was designed as a direct counterpart to Sonic, whereas Vegeta was simply a villain (among 3, mind you) that represented Goku's evil saiyan heritage, that became another person in the list of people influenced by Goku to not be evil. Shadow was going to blow up the planet out of sheer revenge. Vegeta was going to blow up the planet because he was being a sore loser. Beyond very general surface tropes, the comparison doesn't really add up, but people keep insisting that they do. It's like saying the Chaos Emeralds are exactly like the Dragon balls because they are both 'mythical', and there are 7 of them.
  4. Mana


    Good! Great! Awesome! Outstanding! Amazing! Member
    ok so all the dbz homages they admitted to are made up and i'm not just saying this because i've never had anyone care enough to debate me on this when the connections were fairly interesting and obvious but not worth a full conversation.
  5. Darker foils to the main character aren't really DBZ exclusive. Vegeta certainly codified the Shonen rival archetype, but he's hardly the first one.

    But obviously, Vegeta is going to be the one who everyone compares Shadow to if you don't really care to get into the details.

    Anyone who's played the games will understand Shadow only shares superficial traits with Vegeta (Even if Sega are doing their damnest to make us forget that...) but if you don't really care much about Shadow's story, which is more than a few people to be fair, then its easier to just say that he's Vegeta and be done with it.
  6. TheInvisibleSun


    For some reason, I take issue with that. Just saying he's a Vegeta analogue doesn't make much sense, it never did, and it does a bit of disservice to
    both characters. There are so many anime rival foil antagonists, and yet we adhere to Vegeta because of the few passing homages (few of many) to Dragonball in the early 90's? Because he's also a hedgehog that can become a Super Saiyan?

    I think it might have more to do with most Western audiences being introduced to DBZ around the same time as the adventure games, but it is still irksome to me.

    could it be that homages are just that and don't follow through to influence every decision of the series thereafter
  7. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

    Virginia, USA
    Paying off student loans
    I know it's a whole day later, but sorry for snapping. The quote in Overlord's post hadn't shown up, and I thought he was talking to me. I will behave better.
  8. Palmtree Panic

    Palmtree Panic

    The soundtrack is great. Probably Jun Senoue's work at his peak. Even though the game only has few locations, (city, desert, space, etc.) the levels themselves all feel different from each other. Chao Garden was great. 2-player mode was fun, especially in the Gamecube version with the multiple playable characters.
  9. Overlord


    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
    Berkshire, England
    Learning Cymraeg
    OK so I know I said I was dipping out but one last post because I think some people clearly aren't understanding what I'm saying here. I never said "You don't actually enjoy the thing that you say you enjoy and are just too stupid to notice", this is a massive strawman you have erected to make yourself look like the victim. You're free to like grinding Chao as much as you like, my point was that not everyone else does, which you are entirely dismissing when, as has been evident from other posters in this thread.... isn't just me.

    I'm also not the one wildly slinging baseless insults about, either. Doesn't make yourself look the best, sport.

    And NOW I'm done.
  10. Nova


    オ カ エ リ ナ サ λ Site Staff
    Not too sure calling a mod working for the site you're posting on a 'weirdo' or telling them to 'blow you' is such a great idea. Fuck me, you're an arrogant little shit aren't you?
  11. Mana


    Good! Great! Awesome! Outstanding! Amazing! Member
    I really like the space levels in Adventure 2. The unique use of physics was really fun during Crazy Gadget and Cosmic Wall.

    Hope whatever game we get in 2021 has space levels.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
  12. Bartman3010


    Site Staff
    I deleted the Chao Garden off of my VMUs back in the day because I got tired of having to grind for extra content and wanted to be able to have room for other games I was playing at the time. I never really got back into Chao after that.

    Especially didn't help when the games came to GameCube. At least you could trade Chao between SADX and Sonic Adventure 2, but it almost never seemed worth it since it felt more awkward to raise Chao in SADX, since it was just using the SA2 engine and made it more difficult to raise hero and dark chao-- almost as if the game was never really designed around it in the first place.

    Then the games came to Steam and the Chao interactivity was even more limited there. No Chao Adventure, no Tiny Chao Garden so I can't take them with me at all. I've long since given up on them.

    Frostav is a twit.
  13. I mean obviously, it irks you and others because you know the actual differences between Shadow and Vegeta; but other people really can't be bothered unfortunately, which leads to the superficial comparisons.

    It's really annoying because as I mentioned, Sega seems to have brought into that rhetoric and just made Shadow into a discount Vegeta, except without any of the things that made Vegeta a good character. So now people are even more justified in those superficial comparisons, and fans are just annoyed at how much they're disgracing Shadow's character by turning him into something he isn't.
  14. SystemsReady


    I Have No Idea What I'm Doing At Any Given Moment Member
    The Twin Cities
    trying to not fall asleep while writing Selenium tests
    it's funny because the purposes as stated here are contradictory. Let's be honest, "casuals" won't be playing SA2 for the amount of time needed to pump up Chao. It's the Sonic diehards and the lunatics getting all emblems/A-ranks (like me) who will be doing so, yet they're not "Sonic"?

    And Sonic's appeal was more limited in scope when the TSR animations came out than when SA and SA2 released - yet, we got Chao in TSR, we got Chao in Space, we have Chao merch that I see sold at Best Buy and stuff (which I couldn't ever find when I was a kid - when they were in the games!). If it's "not Sonic" and Sonic fans don't want them...who on earth is into this then, because until the movie came out we had very few non-Sonic fans actually into Sonic these days. Clearly there's a part of the community that thinks of them fondly for Sega to spend time, money, and effort on them.

    tl;dr, "they have limited appeal and only casuals like them" and "Sega keeps putting out stuff with them in it despite Chao Gardens not being around since Advance 2" are contradictory to me
  15. Pengi


    Chao Garden has a lot of kid appeal. It's a way of giving them a sense of accomplishment for replaying easier levels if they aren't ready for the harder levels yet. The ranking system also feeds into this, you can replay levels to get a higher rank or beat your own high score, and if you don't manage it at least you have some items to give to your Chao. So you're making progress in one aspect of the game no matter what.

    On a recent Sonic livestream they said that the Dark Chao plush toy sold well. I wouldn't be surprised to see more Chao merch in the future.
  16. Josh


    Well, yeah, I know that. Heck, based on a lot of what you've said, I might have been the one who pointed that phenomenon out to you in the first place. From my SA2 script:

    I think you might be taking the wrong lesson from that statement, though. Nostalgia as a tool for celebrating the games you love is a wonderful thing, and can even help change the narrative. Back in the Saturn years, before us nostalgic Genesis kids grew up, popular perception was sometimes that Sonic 1 was the only good game in the series! From GameSpot's 1997 Sonic Jam review:

    Can you imagine Sonic Mania even getting MADE, let alone being successful, if THAT had still been the perception 20 years later?

    But nostalgia as a WEAPON is a double-edged sword, at best. You'll love these games in a way that no one else CAN, and that can be great, but you'll love them to a degree that no one else WILL, and you've got to be aware of that.

    Gleam the positives from your perspective, use it to raise up the aspects of the series you love, but don't use nostalgia as a justification to bludgeon everything that doesn't match it and everyONE that doesn't share it.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  17. Mana


    Good! Great! Awesome! Outstanding! Amazing! Member
    I forgot how well done Sonic Adventure 2's story is. I watched the cut scenes in chronological story on Youtube and they really told a compelling story with a bunch of badass moments from all the characters.

    All the dialogue is corny and loveable and teaches you something about the character. Sonic is a heroic guy with the smartest mouth in the world but ultimately the hero, Tails is his smart capable yet still lacking confidence sidekick, Knuckles is a man focused on his own mission but still has a strong desire to protect his friends, Amy is a bright loveable girl who sometimes gets in over her head but proves to be more than capable again and again. Eggman is a classic supervillian with ambition and theatrical flair, Rouge is a cool double agent chick with a love for jewelry. Shadow is a focused man with a mysterious past, a cool persona that hides how broken he really is, and the puppet master pullling everything along.

    Shadow's backstory and entire character arc was well done and emotionally compelling. His sacrifice was one of the best character "deaths" I've ever seen and now I kind of wish it was never reversed. I see now why people consider it to be the peak of writing in the franchise. Just, bravo.

    My first Sonic game was Sonic Advance but I now remember why this was such an exciting introduction to the 3D franchise.
  18. Lostgame


    turntablist, dinosaur goddess Oldbie
    Toronto, ON
    The O.I.C.
    I'm gonna stick to the original DC version here, because I got it when I was about 10, when it came out and spent most of my years with that version.

    Sonic Adventure 2, is - after all these years; still quite a bit of fun - which is, ultimately all that really matters.

    The music has honestly held up for me, and - beyond retaining its charm; takes me back to a very special and cool place I can honestly say only SEGA, at their best; can.

    There is a strangely ineffable charm, as well; to the cheesy, overbearing - yet high quality seems very typical of a 'Japanese interpretation of the USA' genre that I see in a lot of Japanese media. It's cute?

    Sonic and Shadow's levels are, for the most part; pretty on-point and fun, especially as a direct sequel to SA1.

    Tails and Eggman's levels...the controls feel kinda off, it never feels nearly as 'fun' as the other levels, but they're honestly not terrible.

    Knuckles and Rouge, the randomness mechanic of it kinda both blesses it and, as anyone who has tried to get an A rank on those later levels will know, curses it to hell. I'm not sure how that could be fixed. But overall, other than those last couple of stage, a ton of fun.

    The overall story is hilariously awesome, anime-esque total nonsense, I; for one, love Shadow's tsundre syndrome, I love the scope and scale of it - it totally doesn't take itself seriously in any way, and that's what makes it work where something like '06 just falls flat.

    I like the random 2-player additions.

    The game, overall; kinda just revels in its silliness, while providing some fun core gameplay; and tightens the engine up quite a bit from SA1. The graphics do feel a improved.

    Also, talk about major improvements to SA1 - skippable cutscenes - can I get a 'what, what?'

    The most meaningful compliment I can give, other than 'it's still pretty fun after 20 years', which is huge; is 'it's actually iteratively better than it's predecessor' - which so very many sequels fail to do.
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  19. Ayu Tsukimiya

    Ayu Tsukimiya

    UGUU~ Member
    Thanks reading my mind and putting my thoughts into words. Out of all the things we've gotten out of modern Sonic, I'd say the Chao Gardens are among the most well-received outside of people who don't want them tied to emblems and whatnot. Sega seems to be finally noticing this after nearly 20 years of absence.

    They added a lot of incentive for people to replay the stages and get better at them in general. Need more rings or chaos drives? Replay a level. Need a certain animal? Look up which levels have them and replay them.

    Meanwhile I missed Frostav's "weirdo" comment. :V
  20. SystemsReady


    I Have No Idea What I'm Doing At Any Given Moment Member
    The Twin Cities
    trying to not fall asleep while writing Selenium tests
    related to the comments about Chao, the one of IDW's latest covers depicts a Chao race. again, clearly people want them:

    It's not "fanservice" if fans aren't enthusiastic about it!
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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