Complimenting Sonic Adventure 1

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Mana, Oct 4, 2020.

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  1. Vanishing Vision

    Vanishing Vision

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    I like Big, he's a cool and unique character design, he's a friendly, fun-loving guy that looks out for his friends, and he gave us this:


    As for his gameplay, it's not too bad, but I wish they would've just used the Sega Bass Fishing engine instead.
     
  2. Cynical Toast

    Cynical Toast

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    Big’s gameplay is far from ideal, but I’ll never not love the fact that he’s voiced by John St. John.

    “I came here to kick ass and find Froggy, and I’m all out of fishing line.”
     
  3. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Apparently he hated doing that voice which I find hilarious, like he will not do a Big impersonation these days he hates it that much. But apparently he just hates the voice, not the character himself. Didn't know he also voiced other early 2000s Sonic games. He voiced Omega (and Big) in Heroes, E-102 and Chaos in Battle, and he was the announcer in Sonic Advance 3.
     
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  4. Sonic Adventure is a really good game, with really bold and honestly smart decisions made within it.

    I think the game is honestly really impressive considering it comes out only two years after Mario 64. In a time where camera, collision and physics were all relative unknowns for 3D gaming, every company that made a 3D platformer was just following in Mario's footsteps (Spyro, Banjo) and/or making something more primitive as a safer bet (Crash, Croc). But Sonic Team, bold as they were, tried to take on Sonic's gameplay, which required pushing all three of those things way farther than Mario would ever go. And while the results made for a janky game I can't help but feel it was a commendable effort that is worth praise.

    I think the decision to do the modern design was the right call. Times were changing, and the 00s was definitely when the rest of the world (particularly the west) caught Anime Fever, so sticking to the western cartoon style wasn't going to work forever. And it didn't have to anyways, because Sonic was always a blend of Japanese and western influences anyways, so the transition was pretty clean.

    As for the design itself, it's very good. Adding details to Sonic like green irises and shoe soles were nice touches that didn't take away from Sonic's image, but rather gave you something to see if you ever saw Sonic closer to the camera than normal. Giving Sonic longer limbs and spines allowed you to see the dynamic poses and curvature to his design that a back view of the classic design as-is didn't grant. Have whatever you have against the graffiti inspired style of Uekawa's early art or whatever, but the intent for the design was visual clarity, and I think it worked so well that it's why it's remained the standard design for 20 years.

    And lastly, I just think the game does a good job of being classic Sonic in 3D. It's not perfect, and honestly it could've been more like the classics if it was focused less on race-track sections or cinematic moments, but I don't think Yuji Naka and co would've had it any other way, and I kinda feel the same. Half the point in the games they made were to wow the player, and it's that flavor that I think gives these games the charm they have.

    Also the homing attack was a great idea and I'm glad it became a series staple. Real brave hours right here, I know.
     
  5. Laura

    Laura

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    You know, I've thought about this topic a lot over the years...

    Sonic Adventure as a game overall isn't great, but when it is firing all out, it is excellent. People say it's aged badly, and in terms of its cutscene direction, voice acting, animations, collision, hub worlds, repeated levels, bosses, and the dud alternate characters (Knuckles, Amy, Big), it has aged really badly. So yeah, it's aged badly no question. But in terms of graphics it's aged far better than its competitors and looks considerably better than most PS2 games (the DC version obviously). And most importantly, I think Sonic's levels have aged really well. When Sonic Adventure is bad it's a 4/10, when it's good, it's a 8/10, even by today's standards.

    I don't really know how to quantify this, since it's hard to put into words, but I don't get what people mean when they say Sonic controls really badly. He's not perfect by the standards of Mario Odyssey, but he controls better or at least on par with platformers from the late 90s. Go back and play Mario 64, the moveset is excellent, but the controls are really poor. I know SA1 came out years after Mario 64, but still, I just don't think Sonic controls considerably worse than Mario 64, for example. Or even Spyro or Crash. I just don't get it really and it's hard to explain how it feels for me. He just moves where I want him to go and feels responsive. The camera is godawful but that's the case for most games from the late 90s, even those that aren't platformers. I'm not going to pretend he controls better than he does, he goes careering into the railroads in Windy Valley every single time. But does he control unforgivably badly? I don't think so.

    The Sonic levels are also great. They are a clear improvement on the likes of Mario 64 and Spyro, at least in my opinion, because they are more dynamic, organic, sophisticated, and engaging. Crash has great levels, but they are more unforgiving, sometimes unfairly so, and rail-roaded.

    You know, I think a really good comparison to Sonic Adventure is Sonic Unleashed. Unleashed had great Sonic levels which had a lot of issues but when they were built upon in a good way, the formula led to Generations, which i think is a great game. If they took Sonic's stage formula and made it really great we could have a really special game. Or even something like DMC4, which had really good Dante gameplay but had little content to showcase it until DMC5.
     
  6. Mana

    Mana

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    I've played all of those but Paper Mario but they're all optional and not tied to being able to unlock the main story. I guess the newest Animal Crossing locks the musuem behind fish and bugs but thats the only one.

    Big's story barely even ties into the other main characters. They even were able to JUST use Froggy in Gamma's story without even mentioning Big. That's a problem.
     
  7. Xilla

    Xilla

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    It's hard for me to really describe but I see it as the finale of the classic series rather than the start of the new. Whenever I think "modern" Sonic I just think Adventure 2 (which I've always hated) and beyond. It's basically wrapping up things that were alluded to in the Japanese MD manuals. The aesthetics of the environments are really nice too, you could drop in the classic characters and they wouldn't look out of place at all. Plus the "at-least-they-tried" attempts at incorporating some of the MD physics in 3D.

    Gameplay wise it's a bit of a mess in places, but it did do those Knuckles treasure hunts better than Sonic Adventure 2 did IMO.
     
  8. Palas

    Palas

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    I have always not liked Sonic Adventure, but I've warmed up to it over the recent years. Just a little.

    For one, I really, really like its colors. No other game in history is vivid, bright and unabashedly cyan the way Sonic Adventure is. It just screams 1999 all the time, and in a very good way.

    I also do believe Chaos is a natural, incredible extension of the progression we'd had in the classics. It raises the stakes concerning a myth we were already familiar with (the Master Emerald), it's all about Eggman attaining a power higher than him and screwing over (and let's remember it's the first time that happened; Sonic Adventure is not at fault for the games that came after it) and it's a nice subversion of the themes the series had used up until then. Nature Can Be Scary Too and all that.

    Also, I like Big.
     
  9. Frostav

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    Only 3D game that actively tries to resemble the classics in art-style and controls.

    Stages like Sky Deck and Red Mountain are about the sole time Sonic Team has ever made 3D levels that actually have their own unique sets of gimmicks and obstacles in the 3D series. Most levels from SA2 onward use very similar obstacles and the like, they just made the base platforming harder. Stuff like Sky Deck's rotating drums and Red Mountains huge hammers aren't paralleled by anything else in the game. Never once since this game has Sonic Team tried to make levels like Twinkle Park, where the entire level is actually quite small and instead you spiral up and around a huge building and falling to your death is basically impossible. Hell, the one level that actively resembles the later games (Speed Highway) is distinct because it's about the only level like that!

    Also it invented the chao garden (even if SA2 and later SA2B vastly overhauled and improved it) and you can just ignore Amy, Big, and Gamma once you beat the game once so that's cool.
     
  10. Wildcat

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    I have a lot of nostalgia for SA. I was so hyped for the Dreamcast and there was a demo going on at a mall but there was a crowd around so I did not get to see it. I just remember someone speaking and explaining how the game played and of course the power of the DC.

    Everything about it felt epic but I understand part of this was due to how old I was and where video games were at the time. The "next generation" of consoles were a bigger deal then imo because it was a legitimate leap in technology.

    I really liked the Hub world. Having certain things happen or show up in between stages helped give a sense of adventure. Like Eggman's bridge appearing in the Mystic Ruins. The whole thing, even though it was still pretty enclosed added realism.

    I know some of the facial expressions have been turned into memes but I never found the voice acting funny. "This is happening" never struck me as silly. It's been a long time since I've played it so there might be things I find off but in general I think they did a great job.

    Still I would totally be in for a remake. A lot of cool things they could do. Modern graphics, extras characters, expanded hub world, improved gameplay (mostly for Big and Knuckles), new stages, unlockables, etc. Give Tails an actual house instead of just a hangar. It could your HQ.
     
  11. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    The OST is great and Chaos is still one of my favorite video game designs/characters to this day - I love how his designs change with each emerald instead of them just going "emeralds give bones brrrrrr", and the usage of his fluid form for animations and attacks is more interesting than pseudo-waterbending or similar. Also, the ambiguity in his motivations over time was something I appreciated a lot as a kid (so like, eight years old) - Chaos was probably the first villain I had ever seen where you'd see them as perfectly benign and fine, albeit intimidating, before they justifiably lose it and they must be stopped. Similarly, Gamma is still my favorite Sonic character.

    And similarly to THAT, E-101 Mk II is still one of the coolest robot designs I've ever seen, and I love how its idle animation makes it look like it's breathing.

    The intro is awesome too, and I adore the Chao system in all its permutations. I played a LOT of Chao Adventure when I was a kid.

    The game has honestly aged quite terribly in nearly every gameplay aspect but it was still strongly formative for the things I like and I still think of it fondly regardless. I like to use the term "jank". And for all its jankiness, you can still have a lot of fun with it - even if it's just, say, using the spindash to propel yourself out of the game's geometry because it's that broken, while you and your friends laugh your asses off.


    Also this. Very few games really get the sun-washed island feel down like Adventure does IMO, and it does it without using steel drums in the OST, which is a damned miracle.

    Because unlike SA2, SA1 actually feels like it has a variety of different aesthetics for its levels, whereas SA2 feels """realistic""" the whole damn time. That jab aside, IIRC Jun handles more of SA2's OST than he does SA1's, so it makes sense that it results in a more consistent style overall.
     
  12. SuperSonicRider

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    • Sonic Adventure is the absolute best Sonic and Tails have ever controlled in 3D. Also, it made Tails & Knuckles' special abilities feel more a bit more "fluid" than in the classic games e.g. you can hold the action button to descend quickly while Tails is flying, and Knuckles can continue gliding regardless of if he "finished" a glide already.
    • I love the Dreamcast character models and general art direction.
    • It has cool character arcs for Tails, Amy, and Gamma.
    • Perfect Chaos is one of my favorite Super Sonic bosses.
    • It has really memorable levels, especially for Sonic's first proper 3D outing. Emerald Coast, Speed Highway, Red Mountain, Final Egg...most of them are great with interesting shortcuts to take advantage of. I don't even hate Sky Deck, as Sonic or Tails anyway :V The only "meh" level to play for me is Casinopolis, but even that has its interesting setpieces with the pinball machines and the Sonic statue.
    • SADX having the Game Gear games as unlockables was pretty cool, in retrospect it made me think that it'd be neat if Unleashed had all the Advance games or something like that, haha
    I should probably give SA1 a proper full playthrough again soon, there's really a lot to love about it (certainly more than this quick list I thought of!). :)
     
  13. Mana

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    Sky Deck is one of my favorite 3D stages because of the sense of danger and epicness that follows you through the level. You feel like a secret agent on a mission to save the world from Eggman.

    Crazy Gadget is the only other 3D stage that I can think of that has that sense of danger, dread, and urgency in the entire franchise. Well Egg Fleet as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  14. Sid Starkiller

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    I misread that and it made me think of something else. This isn't really something that Adventure did, but as the first game I played on the Dreamcast, I'm counting it:

    So growing up I had an NES and a Genesis, and several friends with SNESes. All of the standard controllers on those systems were relatively flat. I didn't have any 5th gen console, though, so I went straight from Genesis to Dreamcast, and with the controller having dedicated grips on it, I remember picking it up as the game was booting and thinking "Oh my god, this is the most comfortable controller I've ever held!"
     
  15. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    I believe Sonic's first major 3D outing is still his best. Sonic's satisfying control hasn't been matched or improved since. The soundtrack is probably my favorite of the 3D games. A lot of fun and memorable stages and set pieces, and outside of some particular areas every once in a while, I don't consider the camera all that bad.
     
  16. Sai Start Marker

    Sai Start Marker

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    The biggest compliment that I can give to Sonic Adventure is that the production was really involved and carefully considered. I'd argue it's the last time they sincerely tried their hardest on a Sonic game. The finished product now is a dated mess, but I can't help but smile when I watch the promotional stuff or think about how excited I was for it in the late 90's. The soundtrack, as some have also stated, is really, really good.

    As a whole, it's a shame they took this grab bag of mixed content in the game and decided to magnify the worst parts of it for future titles, honestly.
     
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