Clearing a Misconception About Sonic Forces Dev Team

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Swiftbix, Jun 18, 2021.

After What You've Read, Do You Think Sonic Team Can Handle the Next Sonic Game?

  1. Yeah!

    17.6%
  2. I'm Still a Bit Skeptical...

    57.4%
  3. No Way!

    25.0%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Swiftbix

    Swiftbix

    Deep Delver Member
    47
    27
    18
    In recent times, I’ve noticed that people have gotten more and more cynical towards Sonic Team, especially with their new game on the horizon. I don’t want to rekindle the same conversations that have been echoed for years at this point, but instead, I would like to tackle a singular misconception about their latest game, Sonic Forces, from a different perspective. The misconception in question is that Sonic Forces was developed by “newbies” with little experience with the series and that the reveal trailer lied when it showed that the game was being made by the team that brought us Sonic Colors and Generations. You’d be surprised how many veterans of the series were involved with Sonic Forces, not just from Colors and Generations, but even further back than that. We’re going to look at some of the members who worked on Forces individually to find out the truth. Let’s dive into it!


    * Note, not every game that these members took part in will be listed, just some notable ones, the full list will be in the links. The Sonic & Sega Retro are such amazing sources!


    Producers & Director


    [​IMG]

    Let’s get started with the head of Sonic Team and Sonic Series Producer of Forces himself, Mr. Takashi Iizuka. He was Senior Game Designer of Sonic 3&K, the Director of all main series Sonic games from Adventure 1 to Shadow the Hedgehog (the Sonic Adventure concept was his idea), and the Producer of all main series games from Colors onward. People use him as a way to display their distaste for the current direction of the Sonic franchise, which in my opinion is very underserved due to everything he has done for Sonic. He’s stayed with Sonic through thick and thin; even Mr. Naoto Ohshima, the original creator of Sonic’s character design, acknowledged this. I’m not saying all of this to tell anyone that Mr. Iizuka is above criticism, I’m just saying that we should criticize him and others with respect at the forefront. I mean that genuinely because prior to doing my own research, my own opinion of Mr. Iizuka was unfavorable because that is all that people would make him out to be. I have more to say in regards to the producer, but I’ll come back to it towards the end.


    [​IMG]

    Next up is Mr. Shun Nakamura, who was the Producer of the game. He was a Game Designer for Sonic R, Field Designer for Adventure 1, Development Support for Heroes, Director of 06 after Mr. Yuji Naka left the project, and Sonic Character Supervisor for Sonic Lost World. Those are just some of the projects from the wide variety he has worked on for the Sonic series. People tend to associate him with Sonic 06, but I feel that is doing him a disservice since he’s had a long history with Sonic.


    [​IMG]

    Now, onto the Director and Lead Game Designer, Mr. Morio Kishimoto. He got his start with Sonic as the Lead Game Designer of the Sonic Storybook games, and then he became the Director of the main series games from Colors to the present. I’ve noticed that since people have become tamer with blaming Mr. Iizuka, the blame has been shifted more towards Mr. Kishimoto these days. I know next to nothing about how to create a video game, but from research, I found that the director’s job is to oversee the project and make sure it fits his vision. With that in mind, I don’t think that Forces was his best work, but I believe that there are other factors that affected how the project turned out, which I’ll get back to.


    Gameplay & Aesthetics


    The descriptions from this section onwards should be briefer, so let’s go!

    Mr. Hiroki Tokunaga was the Lead Programmer. Previously he was part of the Gameplay Programmers of Sonic Generations and Sonic Lost World.


    Mr. Takayuki Okada was the Lead Planner. He was a Game Designer for Secret Rings, a Daytime Level Designer for Unleashed, and Lead Level Designer for Colors, and a Game Designer for Generations.


    Mr. Jyunpei Ootsu was the Lead Level Designer. Back when Forces was new, I remember people referring to him as the “guy who worked on Lost World” in the credits. However, his history with Sonic goes back further than that. He was a Game Designer for the Storybook games, a Planner for Sonic Colors, and of course, a Level Designer for Lost World.


    Ms. Shoko Kamiya was a Level Designer. Back when Forces was new, she was referred to as one of the two “new level designers”, but in actuality, she worked as a Game Designer on Mario & Sonic Sochi 2014 (did you know that Sonic Team themselves have developed the M&S series since the 2nd game?) prior to Forces.


    Mr. Daizo Kinoshita was a Field Artist. He was previously a Field Artist for Adventure 2, Heroes, and Shadow the Hedgehog.


    Mr. Yoshinari Amaike was a Character Artist. He was previously a Field Artist for Adventure, and an Artist for 06, Generations, and Lost World.


    Mr. Taro Hino was the Title Logo Designer. He did the same for Lost World and was a Lead Interface CG Artist for Secret Rings.


    Mr. Yuji Uekawa was a Sonic Character Supervisor. Many artistically inclined Sonic fans know his name very well since he was the Character Designer for Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 as well as Art Director for the Advance and Rush games. For the main series, he’s been a Sonic Character Supervisor since Sonic Colors.


    Ms. Sachiko Kawamura was the Senior Art Director. Not only did she create the Chao along with Sonic Unleashed director Mr. Yoshihisa Hashimoto, but she is also responsible for the design Sonic has had in 3D since Unleashed. She’s been the Art Director of every main series Sonic game since then.


    Hedgehog Engine Programmers

    • Mr. Yoshitaka Kawabata was a Programmer for the Adventure games, 06, and Colors.

    • Mr. Kouji Ogino was a Field Programmer for the Adventure games and 06. As well as a Programmer for the original Hedgehog Engine for Unleashed.

    Story

    [​IMG]

    Mr. Eitaro Toyada wrote the story for Sonic Forces. He was an Event Scene Editor for Adventure, Level Designer for Heroes, and Boss Game Designer for Unleashed. Since Sonic Colors he has served as Sonic Character Supervisor along with Mr. Uekawa and Mr. Iizuka, and he also created the story and art for the 25th Anniversary comics for Sonic Channel. Personally, the story for Sonic Forces was okay and serviceable, especially compared to the previous game. I think that the real problem was how it was localized in English. The way the localizers spiced up the script wasn’t that great to me.


    Animation


    Mr. Hiroyuki Abe was a Character Animator. He was previously an Animator for the first two M&S games as well as Lost World.


    Mr. Kou Ishitoya was a Character Animator. He was previously a Character Animator from every main series Sonic game from Unleashed onwards.


    Mr. Takashi Nakashima was a Movie Director from Marza Animation. Previously, he was a Director for the Sonic Unleashed short, Night of the Werehog.


    Mr. Yoshihiro Hanada was a Modeling Artist from Marza Animation. He returned from doing the same role for Sonic Generations and being a Layout Artist for Night of the Werehog.


    Conclusion

    The whole point of what I just did was to show just a part of the sheer amount of Sonic Team veterans who worked on Forces. There was someone from basically every main series Sonic game doing something on the team. Also, all of this is not to defend Forces, I’ve played the game and I did not enjoy it much, but this was more in response to anyone who says that it was a new, different team that made Forces. Of course, I won’t deny that there were new people, but quite a lot of them were veterans, not just for Sonic, but Sega games in general.


    Now, in the case of Mr. Iizuka. One detail that's brushed upon is that he relocated to America during Forces development in 2016 to oversee the Sonic-related projects from Sega of America and make it the hub of the franchise. Hence, Sonic Studio. It’s basically not much different from when Mr. Iizuka moved to the US along with some Sonic Team members who worked on Sonic Adventure to form Sonic Team USA (later renamed Sega Studios USA) to develop Adventure 2, Heroes, and Shadow the Hedgehog. I’d theorize that the move would’ve taken time for Sonic Team in Japan, and especially the director of Sonic Forces, to adjust to.


    I’m also honestly impressed that Sonic Forces even turned out to be decent and playable, especially since the development of the actual game took a year and concurrently with the Hedgehog Engine 2. I believe that Sonic Team is perfectly talented as they are to develop the next Sonic game. If most of the people who worked on Forces are working on the 2022 game along with some new talent, I think they’ll be golden. The Hedgehog Engine 2 has been used for other Sega games for a few years now, and Sonic Team has had years to assimilate to the hub for Sonic being at Sonic Studio in the US. I don’t know about anyone else, but I have faith in them to do a good job.

    One more thing, I don't believe that any member of Sonic Team is lazy or should be called such. Regardless of how I feel about any of the games they've released over the years, I know from research that game development is a very strenuous task. Especially when reading about incidents like this.

    So what do you guys think, do you have confidence in Sonic Team?

    Sources
    Sonic & Sega Retro
    MobyGames
    Imbd

    EDIT:
    I just want to clarify, especially after seeing some of the replies: I'm neither defending Sonic Forces nor saying that anyone is inclined to like the game because --- worked on it. There were two main points I wanted to get across with this post:
    1. Sonic Forces WAS made by the team the made Colors and Generations. The team is even more expansive than that.
    2. If the team could make Sonic Forces functional with little development time and franchise changes going on simultaneously, imagine what they could do with 5 years, a finished graphics engine that has had years of exposure, and probably more Western influence. Example: Mr. Toyada wrote a (debatably) ok story for Forces, a game that doesn't seem to have a clear vision and obviously had a troubled development cycle, but maybe he could write a better story in the future (if he's involved) if the game has a sharper vision and a smoother development cycle? I can't assume because I don't know anything going on behind the scenes, but that seems like an advantage to me. Maybe Sonic Team can pull it off?
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
    • Informative Informative x 6
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  2. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    3,811
    160
    43
    England
    Sprites for Cybernetic Outbreak
    Honestly, the series has been going the wrong way for a while. I'm not expecting that to change suddenly. So I'm still a bit skeptical.
     
  3. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    435
    101
    43
    Brazil
    How exactly is this a defense of Sonic Team?
     
  4. Turbohog

    Turbohog

    Member
    711
    19
    18
    Not going to read all of your ramble. I don't care what their qualifications are or aren't. It's simple. Over the last two decades, I haven't liked what they've done (with perhaps an exception for Sonic Generations and a couple of other titles). Sonic Team's efforts have also clearly lacked ambition for a long time. That tells me all I need to know.
     
  5. Swiftbix

    Swiftbix

    Deep Delver Member
    47
    27
    18
    The whole point of the thread was to shine a light on how the current Sonic Team is made up of talented people who have years of experience with the franchise. If they could complete the production of Forces in a year under strenuous circumstances, I wonder what could happen with 5 years...

    I respectfully disagree that Sonic Team lacks ambition. Mr. Iizuka cares about the franchise, and if they are making good use of their time like I think they are, there could still be hope yet.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2021
  6. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

    Better than Sonic Genesis... Member
    300
    101
    43
    First of all I would like to thank you for doing research and providing us with context. A lot of this information is spread out everywhere and not really consolidated, so it helps put things in perspective.

    That said, I think you're giving Kishimoto-san a little too much leeway here. His first foray into directing sonic games were the storybook games and those games, while potentially fun in some aspects, are notorious for their linear level design and terrible padding. While having Takayuki Okada on the team probably helped to soften the blow (speculation on my part) you have Ootsu-san who catered to that linear design in Lost World and other new and inexperienced level designers. As you said, a game director is responsible for the entire vision of a game, and Kishimoto-san has made some questionable decisions in terms of how level design should progress, how much the game should be padded, and so on. The main instance I can think of, would be the fact that he is likely responsible (at least in part) for the decision to split Okada-san's stages in Colors, which were similar to how Unleashed's levels worked, into multiple smaller stages. There are also instances in Secret Rings where the pacing is bogged down by the mission structure? Someone more knowledgeable on that game may want to clarify there. In short, his tendency to make some questionable decisions in the sake of game length, coupled with the level design team that both had experience making more linear games or no experience, is probably what lead to the problem with Forces level design. If he is the director of this new game and the rumors are correct, I would be very concerned.

    That said, I can agree that the rest of the veterans listed here have done fairly impressive work. A potential problem I'm seeing here could be the fact that their positions were fairly reshuffled between games, such as Okada-san's position changing from level designer in the 3 earlier boost games to a lead planner who handles things such as event planning which is a different field. It could be that whoever assigns these positions, likely either the producer or director, is not properly utilizing the talents and strengths that these veterans have. tldr; a management problem.

    Another factor in play here could also be Sega's corporate culture and how Japanese corporate structure can affect that. I mentioned this in another thread quite a while ago, but there has been an unfortunate trend (perhaps until recently) of making certain unwise decisions.

    First of all, Japanese corporate culture, much like Japanese culture in general, very traditionalist and discourages people from speaking out of turn or being blunt. There have been stories from game developers in Japan where they had to unofficially workshop ideas with co-workers in order to build up enough support to present an idea to a higher up. Likewise, it's a common practice of Japanese companies to hire Americans for certain positions to provide a blunt voice of reason to a CEO or manager. In this culture, it is also usually expected that a CEO's successor tries to follow the cultural standard set by their predecessor so as not to upset things.

    For Sega in particular, we know that Nakayama-san, who was the CEO during the Master System and Genesis days, was very harsh towards his employees in Japan because they didn't provide the results in Japan that Tom Kolinski did in America. This seemed to create resentment for SoA, and when those same employees moved into positions of authority during the Saturn days, they made decisions that were seemingly out of spite at SoA that ultimately hurt the company. For example, Hideki Sato who was responsible for hardware at Sega and would later become CEO in 2001, turned down a proposal from Silicon Graphics for some arbitrary reason (as stated in Console Wars by Tom Kolinski and interviews with Silicon Graphic Employees) in favor of the Saturn chipset that SoJ was developing. As we know, Silicon Graphics went on to sell their chipset to Nintendo who made the N64 with it and Saturn was a distant 3rd during that era. The fact that this man went on to become CEO of Sega, meant that his somewhat petty attitude for SoA and questionable decisions that weren't based in the company's best interests created a toxic culture that was perpetuated by his successors and likely made worse by the buyout from Sammy Holdings. Only recently do we have a new CEO who might be turning things around, and that's Haruki Satomi. When we consider that Sega's policy until recently has been to rush games out to meet deadlines in spite of the infeasibility of it since the Genesis days, it shines further light on the problems Sonic Team and Izuka probably face when making Sonic games.

    I guess my whole point here is, unless something changes for the better in upper Sega management, the way producers handle things, or the assignment of director and level designers for the games going forward, I don't think we can be complacent and readily hopeful. A lot of things have changed for the better, such as Aaron getting a position of influence at SoJ, Sonic Studio being based in America, or the fact that Pontaff and Graff are seemingly gone, but how much of a dent is that going to make really? I think that's why people are generally very very wary of Sonic Team at the moment. We don't know if things have actually changed for the better, and past history shows that the current situation does not result in good Sonic games.

    Sorry for the wall of text, this is a very complicated topic lol.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  7. I honestly do not care who is or isn't part of Sonic Team, I just know that ever since I bought a Dreamcast specifically so I could play Adventure 1 and 2, I have been disappointed with the mainline Sonic games. The only 3D game I came close to enjoying is Generations, but even then I couldn't bother finishing it.

    I know I sound like a grumpy classic Sonic fan, but it's a fact that the majority of the good aspects from the 2D days did not carry over to the 3D titles, the gameplay is completely different from the one that got me into the series in the first place... I just don't like any of the 3D mechanics and I doubt I'll ever get back into this series if that's all they keep doing.

    I found Generations mildly enjoyable because of the 2D levels, but playing through the 3D ones was a chore, as usual. I wish SEGA would steadily release new 2D Sonic games alongside the 3D ones. Alternating between 2 completely different play styles in the same game is not good solution IMO.

    I don't mind the 3D graphics (as long as they're not going for realism) or the modern character designs, I just want 2D gameplay with good physics and level design.
     
  8. Aerosol

    Aerosol

    Not here. Moderator
    10,785
    160
    43
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    God is this thread necessary? I don't think I've even heard anyone claim Forces was made by newbies.

    Even still, how is listing off the accomplishments of everyone involved in the game meant to be a defense? Some of them are responsible for missteps over a decade ago that are still being repeated now. I don't see how this becomes anything other than another "grumble and gripe and snipe at each other about what a good Sonic game should be" thread but I'll stay my hand...for now.
     
  9. Swiftbix

    Swiftbix

    Deep Delver Member
    47
    27
    18
    First of all, thank you, the post took a lot of research. Secondly, I am inclined to agree with you about Mr. Kishimoto, unless he has taken a liking to more open-ended level design, we could be in a jam for the next game (if he is directing, that is). Even at that though, with a good team influence, I'm sure even he could make an open-world game work. Your last paragraph in particular is very important because the 2022 game will likely be the one to show us if anything has changed (I hope it has).

    You'd be surprised. Also, I didn't mean any harm, I was just trying to highlight that Sonic Team has a strong foundation, with research to back it up. Also, my defense is that Forces was developed during a hectic time for the franchise (move to the US, overseeing of other Sonic-related things, and God knows what else). Mr. Iizuka outright said that Forces may not have seen the light of day. I'll update this post when I find that.
    EDIT: Please read the first page of the Preface in the above link.
    Anyway, I might sound like a Sonic Team apologist, but I'm just trying to put in a good word for them amidst the negativity they are receiving these days.

    While I personally like the 3D games more than the 2D ones, I'm with you on bringing back the 2D games (especially if they have reverence for the genesis era physics, use the modern designs ala Advance/Rush, and have new mechanics that are thought of outside of the box). What to you are the good aspects of a 2D Sonic game?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  10. Aerosol

    Aerosol

    Not here. Moderator
    10,785
    160
    43
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    Please don't post three times in a row like that again.

    Again, a lot of these people that were involved with Forces have been involved with missteps for years. Put in as many good words as you like, but the faith they've squandered over the years is theirs alone.
     
  11. Yeah, even though there's an overlap of fans of 2D and 3D gameplay, these are vastly differently play styles, and forcing everyone to play both is not doing Sonic any favors IMO. If they had separate 2D and 3D offerings, they'd probably have a bigger chance of pleasing the fans.

    Besides the unique physics model that allows for interesting maneuvers, it's mostly the freedom to play the games the way you want to. You can take your time to explore evert corner and get every ring, you can zip through the stages as fast as possible, you can try weird challenges like not picking any rings or not killing any badniks... You're given a goal, a world with a basic set of rules, an the rest is up to you. The 3D games on the other hand seem to be always forcing you to play a certain way, with boost pads forcing you to go fast all the time, bottomless pits forcing you to do homing attack chains, long corridors with no alternative paths or anything interesting to do except boost through... In the end you even get a grade letting you know how close you got to playing the game the way the developers intended you to. I don't like playing games where there's "only one correct answer".
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  12. Swiftbix

    Swiftbix

    Deep Delver Member
    47
    27
    18
    I was trying to respond to 3 replies at the same time, but I don't know how to do that (yet). And with all due respect, if you check my profile, you can see when I joined this forum; I'm still getting a grip on the posting settings. Also, I say this respectfully, but your statement is rather subjective. Forces is the only 3D Sonic released last decade that I did not enjoy, for example.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  13. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

    Not a nazi, maybe Jesus, definitely a dinosaur Member
    558
    15
    18
    glorious nippon
    SNOIC GENERATONS PLUS
    This is less of a defense as you seem to think it is. Wouldn’t “this bad game wasn’t made by the guys who made those games you liked” be a better defense? Yet you’re proving the opposite here. This lineup shows that the people behind things we liked about Generations, Colors and even some earlier games still managed to make a stinker.

    I don’t think Sonic Team is completely talentless, not do they lack ambition. In fact, I think they do pretty good work when it’s not related to Sonic. But I don’t think they know what their weaknesses are or what audiences want. For better or worse they’re always on to the next thing, and it’s rare that any rough aspects of the games are polished. In fact in the case of the boost formula and classic Sonic’s gameplay the exact opposite happened. That Tokunaga, who programmed the gameplay in Generations, worked on this as well is especially disappointing as the gulf in quality between the way the characters handle between the two games is night and day.

    And while I’m glad you enjoyed the plot of Forces (we all have different tastes and I don’t want to disparage anyone for theirs), I respectfully disagree. I’m not of fan of most of the English script embellishments either, but none of them changed anything major from the Japanese script, which I’ve checked out as well. I think you could have made a decent story with the characters and premise of the game, but they didn’t. There were tons of bizarre and/or unexplained plot elements, characters were utilized strangely and none of the characterization felt right. It was as if the person writing it was unfamiliar with the characters and just used them to fill in a plot they already came up with. The fact that Toyoda, who has worked on numerous games with them, was behind it is baffling to me.
    I also think the way they pretty much just a find-replace on the Valtron from their earlier script to call it the Phantom Ruby, changed the color to red, and called it a Mania tie-in was lazy as well. To be fair though that change seems to have been relatively late and something sprung on the team by Iizuka judging from interviews.

    I hope Rangers is better. I don’t enjoy criticizing these games and the people behind them. But based on the current track record my expectations aren’t high.
     
  14. Swiftbix

    Swiftbix

    Deep Delver Member
    47
    27
    18
    I repectfully disagree with you on a few things. For one, the whole point of the thread was to highlight that “x person was part of Forces and did cool things in the past (imo at least). And Forces didn’t have a very favorable development cycle, so if x person stays on Sonic Team with all of the “advantages” the 2022 game has, it can be on par with x persons best works.”

    Secondly, I don’t outright enjoy Forces story, I just think that it’s not as bad as people make it out to be and it is serviceable enough. I do have a few problems with it, but I don’t want to repeat the same tiring complaints that have been made for years.

    At the end of the day, I get where your coming from and I too hope that the 2022 game is a success.
     
  15. Aerosol

    Aerosol

    Not here. Moderator
    10,785
    160
    43
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    Actually, it's not as subjective as you might think, especially when you re-read my comments and notice I'm not just talking about Forces. Nor was I even remotely talking about any individual's opinion. There are quite a few games in the last 15 years that the general populace agrees are duds.

    Whether you like them or not is irrelevant to whether they're even good games or not, because if they were easily defensible "good games", we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I'll say it once more, almost everyone you mentioned has been involved in what was considered at the time a massive misstep, and not everyone on this list has been involved with what were considered at the time to be the franchises biggest successes. Holding them up as proof that Sonic Forces had a "talented, experienced development team" doesn't work the way you think it does, because the output of this "talented, experienced development team" is far and away from being consistently good.

    They've squandered good faith in their ability to produce a quality Sonic game that doesn't require dedicated fans to defend it from everyone else, and they've done so for at least 15 years. I'm not saying that aren't talented and experienced, but I am saying they don't seem to know how to apply that talent and experience to producing a game with the kind of broad appeal, sturdy construction and meticulous design that the series used to have. You may think so and that's fine, but it's a minority opinion.
     
  16. Swiftbix

    Swiftbix

    Deep Delver Member
    47
    27
    18
    Um, alright then, I'll take your word for it. I'm going to keep having faith that their next game will be good though.
    Yes, I knew that you weren't just talking about Forces, and yes, even I don't like a few Sonic games that released in the last 15 years. I just used myself as an example.

     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    3,811
    160
    43
    England
    Sprites for Cybernetic Outbreak
    The plot is a mess. The Phantom Ruby especially, if we're taking Sonic Mania and the prequel comics, which are supposed to be canonical, into account.

    It's an illusionary gem that can apparently drag characters from the past to the present, except that past is now an alternate dimension, except the gem doesn't actually do that?

    Robotnik had the gem, complete and powerful, and tested it on Angel Island, declaring it so powerful that he didn't even bother with the Master Emerald. And then he creates the Phantom Ruby and attaches it to Infinite, who then destroys all the prototypes. Notice how he created the Phantom Ruby after finding the Phantom Ruby.

    Half the cast are one note presences, but that's been the standard for years now.

    Honestly, they could have easily solved half the Phantom Ruby problems by simply keeping the Classic and Modern worlds as one, and using the prequel comics to establish that the Phantom Ruby was destroyed at the end of Sonic Mania, and it's taken this long to study the data and create a viable copy, hence all the prototypes.

    The plot's just bad, sorry to say. And that's not going into my sheer hatred for the World Fragmentation SEGA are trying to pull.
     
  18. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

    Not a nazi, maybe Jesus, definitely a dinosaur Member
    558
    15
    18
    glorious nippon
    SNOIC GENERATONS PLUS
    A lot of the phantom ruby inconsistencies are because in Forces originally it was a device Eggman created called the Valtron that did all that illusion stuff. The only thing they changed about the script with it was that originally Classic Sonic was pulled from his dimension because the Valtron’s power was affecting space time or something. The phantom ruby was created by the Mania team as far as I know and in Mania it’s just a super powerful gem that can warp stuff around and other undefined powers.

    Since there was now an inconsistency in the script (the prototype Valtrons were now prototype phantom rubies which makes no sense), so they came up with an excuse in the prequel comics which I’m fairly sure were written after the fact.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  19. lupinsmask

    lupinsmask

    Member
    19
    3
    3
    My expectations are zilch, I don't have any faith in sonic team anymore.
     
  20. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    3,811
    160
    43
    England
    Sprites for Cybernetic Outbreak
    Probably, though again, they could have solved it with a single timeline and Robotnik attempting to rebuild the Phantom Ruby, rather than say it's the same one from a different dimension.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.