Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blastfrog, Nov 30, 2014.
Tails Adventure and Skypatrol are set before Tails meets Sonic
I always wanna say that Sonic CD happened between 2 and 3.
The way I figure it, Robotnik doesn't typically do kidnapping-for-the-sake-of-kidnapping, so the whole story of Sonic CD is just Robotnik trying to distract Sonic (and hopefully finish him off) while he tries to get the Death Egg back up and running elsewhere. (He also kidnapped Tails to distract Sonic during Sonic 2 8-bit, but prior to Sonic 2 16-bit while he tried to build the Death Egg.)
I explain the "Robotic Sonic" progression as:
Silver Sonic was a total test, like a prototype. Explaining why it happens in a small controlled room, why Robotnik observes the fight through a window (possibly taking notes?), why he didn't even other to paint it, and why the much-stronger Egg Mech is in the very next room, just waiting for Silver Sonic to fail.
Metal Sonic was a refined model, built for speed and agility over brute strength. Sonic's competitiveness is his weakness, which is why Robotnik tries to destroy Sonic with a race rather than true combat, where Metal would lose (as that was where Silver lost).
Mecha Sonic was a model built alongside Metal to be a guardian of the newly-rebuilt Death Egg should Metal fail. Robotnik was banking on Metal working, so this version was not as refined, HOWEVER, it was built with the special ability of being able to tap into and store Chaos Energy (accounting for it's bulkier design). Should Metal Sonic lose, Robotnik would know he could not possibly beat Sonic in the speed game, so he returned to a combative solution, hoping that the Chaos Energy Charge would put Mecha over the top.
OF COURSE, the whole Sonic 2 ending CLEARLY leading right into Sonic 3's opening disproves all of this stuff, but I still think it's a neat concept.
I like this one.
Sonic 3's opening happened at least couple of weeks later and the Tornado has a jet engine.
For CD to be between 2 and 3 Robotnik would need to be one hell of a multitasker, leaving Eggrobo & Co to repair the Death Egg and build Launch Base Zone while he's distracting Sonic away with the Little Planet.
Doesn't the engine change happen during Wing Fortress in Sonic 2?
Also, he may be a good multitasker! He's supposed to be a genius. That magnificent brain has to be used somewhere, because Motobug and Crabmeat don't look like the work on a very smart man. :P
Now now, the badniks intentionally look derpy so you can lower your guard. Grounder looks so cute and cuddly and ...oh where did all my rings go
THAT DASTARDLY GENIUS!!!
I'd personally place SegaSonic before Sonic 1, since Sonic is shown to be doing something he never does again in the intro: Running from Robotnik rather than taking him on
I never argued "I don't like Sonic 4 so it doesn't count". I said "For the love of god don't count Sonic 4" as an extra part of one post, and I put it in a spoiler for a reason. If you read my posts, you would notice I did not use that in any of my actual arguments. I won't and can't argue the exclusion of Sonic 4 from the timeline even though I hate it beyond the capacity of words to describe. I suppose if I could try to argue anything against it, that would have to be the developers that made it had nothing to do with the teams that developed the original trilogy. In that sense, Sonic 4 is closer to fanon than canon.
Sonic Adventure was the last game to even partially involve legacy canon. After that, a few games would throw some bits and pieces at us in the form of references and cameos. Then beyond a certain point, about Heroes and on, it's as if the legacy era never existed. We never see South Island or Angel Island or the master emerald or flashbacks to the Death Egg or returns to past places, nothing. Hell we don't even get references to the Dreamcast era. The modern games have created their own little reality, and are only referential to themselves. Pretty much the only connections left are some characters, rings, and chaos emeralds. While this isn't a solid reason to discount the modern games, I do consider it a firm one. Given the terrible inconsistencies between legacy and modern, and the total negligence of legacy canon, trying to regard modern elements to solve the legacy timeline is ridiculous.
And yes I know the instashield is in Sonic Advance. Like I said, I was talking about the legacy games.
I can't possibly see Knuckles being tricked twice in the same continuity... S3K is clearly the first time Sonic & Knuckles meet, and at the end of the game Knuckles waves his hand at him, smiling, it's obvious he knows Sonic is a good guy, the hero that saved his island without asking anything in return, and a new friend. So unless Sega wants to turn Knuckles into a ridiculously stupid character... oh wait.
Also, lest we forget Sonic Adventure
EDIT: MAN, Sonic's crazy "eyebrows" never get old. I'd love to shake the hand of whoever made those possible.
Actually, you can. The beginning of Sonic 4 Episode Metal shows Metal Sonic in Stardust Speedway Bad Future. This can't be canon because Sonic made a Good Future for all of Little Planet at the end of Sonic CD.
Since when did that definitely happen? There was a good and bad ending after all!
I think the Bad Future shown in S4 just about the only piece of actual evidence for some of the more ambiguous story elements amongst the headcanon in this topic. Sonic may well have beaten Eggman and Metal in CD, but he fell short of collecting all the Time Stones and/or destroying all the robot teleporters!
Obviously it came as a result only of laziness in the production of S4 (it's a screenshot from Generations essentially), but hey, it has implications for the canon!
And if nothing else, is another reason to hate S4.
The bad ending to Sonic CD shows Little Planet being chained back to the mountain after the credits. Little Planet can't be in outer space if Sonic failed to get the Time Stones and destroy the badnik generators.
Well...I have a project I'm working on related to this. I can share the timeline and the 'in-story' reason it's there...barring certain spoilers, of course.
Outright said to be before Sonic and Tails met, I believe this takes place contemporarily with...
Sonic the Hedgehog (both)
The levels weave in and out of one another: 8-bit Green Hill goes to 16-bit Green Hill, then Sonic crosses Bridge Zone to get to Marble Zone, which sits outside Jungle Zone, which Sonic goes through to get into the newly fortified former residential Spring Yard Zone, which has an entrance into the Labyrinth Zone, etcetc.
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (8-bit)
Tails jumps across to South Island in order to catch a ride to go see the Little Planet.He never really sees Green Hill Zone, instead hanging around the Marble Zone because the ruins interest him and he's fearful of people due to his treatment from them prior, but one day a blue blur passes while he's wandering the Jungle Zone, a la a cutscene from Sonic Adventure. He follows, they become friendly and one day Robotnik picks him up during a raid, leading to the game...
Between Sonic 2 8-bit and this game, Sonic manages to master the Spin Dash and Tails mimics him, prompting the Hedgehog to consider him a little brother outright instead of just a friend. Tails, happy by this acceptance, shows off various gizmos to Sonic, such as the Rocket Boots. Then Robotnik manages to snag the Red Chaos Emerald, cue the game.
Sonic Generations (Classic Sonic)
During a run through Green Hill, Sonic notices some Badniks and deals with them promptly. The Badniks were bait, however, and Sonic is drawn into the plot...
The people of South Island, thankful for Sonic's assistance, construct a schoolhouse in his honour, with a holographic interface of him to teach the children, though they note there's quite a few bugs in the software at the moment...
South Island comes into view of Westside Island, allowing Sonic and Tails the opportunity to go see the Little Planet, as per Sonic 4. The games events go on, but while on the Little Planet, Sonic can't quite get used to the different gravity in order to execute a proper spindash. Tails, meanwhile, goes on his lonesome to explore the planet.
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (16-bit)
G.U.N. locate the Death Egg under construction, forcing an early launch when they attempt an assault. Robotnik proceeds to assault Westside Island to capture more labour to finish construction quickly while in orbit, but being the egomaniac he is gloats to Sonic about it, prompting the events of the game...
Sonic Drift and assorted spinoffs (aka those not listed on here)
With Sonic's heroism coming to light, many productions in his image are made on the recovering Westside Island, including cartoons and games.
With the Death Egg down, Robotnik retreats to Mt. Mobius to use the resources to rebuild the Death Egg in Angel Island. Sonic and Tails hear word of Robotnik's mass Badnik production and decide to strike first, leading to the events of the game.
Sonic the Hedgehog 3
As said in the Japanese manual, Sonic and Tails find a relic on Westside Island's beach and learn of the Death Egg's survival and Angel Island, prompting them to immediately fly on over.
Sonic Triple Trouble
With the Death Egg downed again, Robotnik 'accidentally' launches the Chaos Emeralds Knuckles gave him after nicking them from Sonic in Sonic 3 to the four corners of the world with a 'misfire' of the Death Eggs weapons, prompting Sonic to go after them instead to keep them safe. This gives him time to properly rebuild the Death Egg, much quicker as well since Knuckles is also off the island. Robotnik goes after them as well, even sending a second Metal Sonic after them, if only to keep up appearances as he's discovered a much larger energy source on Angel Island...
Sonic and Knuckles
With the Chaos Emeralds safe, Sonic immediately returns to Angel Island. After Tails drops Sonic off in Mushroom Hill, since the Tornado can't get in close because of strange weather patterns causing turbulence, Sonic goes it alone while Tails stays with the Tornado incase the Death Egg manages a take off again as it did in Sonic 3. Cue Sonic and Knuckles (Sonic section)...
Sonic 3 and Knuckles (Knuckles Story)
Knuckles, angered with Robotnik's betrayal, proceeds to destroy all the obvious bases on Angel Island (the Sonic 3 portion), before deciding to relax in Mushroom Hill. However, he's attacked by a certain Badnik, kicking off the Sonic and Knuckles section.
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1
Upon Westside Island, Robotnik attacks in a show of force from an E.G.G. Station in orbit. This is to distract Sonic from what remains of the Death Egg being salvaged in preparation of the Little Planet. Upon destroying the E.G.G. Station, Sonic uses the rocket to return and the Tornado, placed where Sonic would land via Tails calculations, to return to Westside Island. As Sonic does so, he notices a commotion on the Sky Sanctuary and circles until he can assist...
Knuckles in Sonic the Hedgehog 2
As Knuckles now owes Sonic his life twice over, he agrees to help Sonic deal with the remnants of Robotniks' remaining forces on Westside Island in the same way he dealt with them on Angel Island before Tails takes him back. As Sonic deals with the E.G.G. Station, Knuckles deals with the Badniks alongside Tails, since Knuckles isn't familiar with the land. Knuckles even proceeds to take out a chunk of the Death Egg that has managed to remain active. However, they all fail to notice the robot leaving the Mad Gear section of Metropolis and making a beeline for the Lost Labyrinth...
Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode Metal
As the Little Planet approaches, Robotnik contacts the Stardust Speedway facility and uses what power it has to get the original Metal Sonic back home and powered up, as in the game.
Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 2
As the Little Planet approaches, everyone is horrified by the appearance of a familiar metal skeleton around it as the salvaged Death Egg is constructed around it. Sonic and Tails immediately hop into action, Knuckles home on Angel Island, but both are followed by a familiar robot...
Robotnik, irate and thoroughly angered by his constant failures through Sonic, decides to enact revenge. Using a robot to sneak into Sonic's resting place, he decides that death is too easy as option and instead decides to humiliate the hedgehog in the same way Sonic has humiliated him countless times: swapping out the shoes for ones that hold his feet down, he taunts Sonic and captures him as in the scene from SEGASonic the Hedgehog, taking him to one of his many island fortresses, this one known as Carnival Island that is being used as a base while Robotnik attempts to locate the Chaos Rings, before making him navigate the maze in a twisted game. When Sonic completes the mazes, however... he is immediately dumped back into a cage for Robotnik's leisure, where he meets a young squirrel named Ray.
With Sonic currently missing in action, Tails steps up to protect the island from several new bad guys whom claim Westside Island for their own.
Knuckles, spotting Carnival Island from Angel Island, feels a familiar energy. He goes to investigate, being drawn by the Chaos Rings, before interrupting Robotnik as he tends to Espio the Chameleon. The events of the game pan out...
SEGASonic the Hedgehog
After Knuckles Chaotix, Mighty immediately returns to Carnival Island to locate an old friend, Ray, as he was why Mighty was there in the first place. Being captured and thrown into the same cage as the other two, the other facilities to damaged by the Chaotix to hold them, they all manage a breakout and proceed to finish off the Carnival Island base, though with the Chaos Rings gone Robotnik feels there was no more point to the base anyway.
Robotnik decides to shove caution to the wind and just shoot Sonic, but instead accidentally hits the Chaos Emeralds and scatters them again. Knuckles, looking for Tails to catcha ride back to Angel Island, agrees to help Sonic fight Robotnik once more.
Sonic 3D: Flickies Island
Calming the hell down after his revenge plot, Robotnik decides to start from scratch on Flickies Island and immediately begins constructing an army as he did on South Island. Sonic, Tails and Knuckles all head for the island to stop Robotnik, Knuckles tagging along as he still feels he owes Sonic his life.
Seemingly losing his mind again, Robotnik organizes a race with Sonic and co, but his planned courses have Sonic worried as they all seem curiously close to where he has hidden the Chaos Emeralds...
Sonic the Fighters
The Little Planet comes around once more, still held by the Death Egg (since Sonic 4 seems to have been abandoned). Robotni immediately pounces and uses it to construct an army, adding more modules to increase production. As the world fends off the invasion, a minor fight breaks out over the Chaos Emeralds and whom gets to deal with Robotnik...
Sonic, now a worldwide hero, receives a museum dedicated to his actions: the Sonic Journey Accumulation Museum. A recap on his journey up until now, he decides to have a proper holiday while Robotnik is being quiet, taking about a year off until he eventually turns up in a place called Station Square...
Of course, this is all just my own crap.
Shows how often I bother to sit through credits sequences!
But still, if we are to treat S4 as well thought out canon absent of plot holes, then something definitely went awry in CD because of Stardust Speedway's state. Maybe the clip at the end of the bad ending is from some point way in the future, after the events of S4, caused by some crazy time travel shenanigans?
Or maybe S4 is lazy.
I always figured that it was because Sonic took off with the Time Stones and didn't leave them on Little Planet, thus undoing his time travelling actions which would have been preserved by the Time Stones otherwise. Because wibbly wobbly timey wimey.
Either that or the Time Eater forced the bad future during Generations and that stuck, despite Sonic getting the good ending.
To be fair, Sonic 4 can be assigned to a split in the timeline. In one timeline, Sonic has to deal with the events in Sonic 4 because Little Planet had a Bad Future. In the other timeline, Sonic goes straight to whatever game comes after Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
We'd also have to consider that Knuckles Chaotix takes place after Sonic 4 Episode 2. Sega consider that there's only one Metal Sonic around (a mandate they gave to Archie, even), so for Chaotix to happen, Metal Sonic can't be stuck on Little Planet. And there's Triple Trouble too...
So it should be Sonic CD - Sonic 4 episode Metal - Sonic 4 Episode 2 - Sonic Triple Trouble (because Knuckles is an enemy as Metal Sonic is) - Knuckles Chaotix (Knuckles is now an enemy to Metal Sonic) (Obviously I did include all the other games in this, just the games related to my point)
Sonic's canon timeline can be messy sometimes
According to Generations, Sonic 4 features "older" Sonic and Eggman, so it must take place after Chaotix, 3D Blast and every other classic. =P
I find it strange how Sonic has always been 15 or 16, and yet they try to assign drastically different designs to the "Classic" and "Modern" Sonic nowadays.
Separate names with a comma.