Characterization in the Sonic Franchise

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Beamer the Meep, Apr 2, 2021.

What style of characterization do you prefer?

  1. Classic Era Characterization

    57 vote(s)
    58.8%
  2. Adventure Era (SA1 - SH) Characterization

    51 vote(s)
    52.6%
  3. Dark Era (ShTH - SU) Characterization

    13 vote(s)
    13.4%
  4. Modern Era (SC - SF) Characterization

    13 vote(s)
    13.4%
  5. Other

    12 vote(s)
    12.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Back on track Member
    867
    95
    28
    Bilbao, Spain
    Upgrading my own life to pro edition
    I never played '06 because I didn't have the money to buy a new console, moreso when that would had been the only game I'd buy atm, but so much hatred has made me want to play the whole thing just to contrast the truth against the legend, so to speak. I've never had that big of an issue with the infamous kiss except the different face types make them aesthetically awkward, and I actually liked the design of '06 Eggman, so checking out the only adventure-type game I haven't played sounds interesting because I might still like it more than any boost game besides Generations.

    I also want to try Rise of Lyric for similar reasons, and I'd say the only redesign that went really wrong there was Knuckles, both on visual design and characterisation, and I really like that Eggman too.

    Now, speaking of Adventure and its designs, what I didn't like wasn't in-game, but on the box cover art; I find that drawing really ugly. In-game, I didn't like to lose the roundness of his black-eyed self, but we also lost all that geometry in the level art the old games had, so the character models were the lesser change in game aesthetics.
     
  2. XAndrew

    XAndrew

    Member
    74
    21
    8
    You know? It's funny you mention this point, because something like this happened between Sonic and Tails in Sonic Adventure but it was more subtle. It was when they were crashing on the Egg Carrier and when it changed shape Tails had to throw out an obvious statement of that fact, and Sonic made a "Really dude?" sort of face towards Tails. So yeah. Sonic definitely has his moments when he can be annoyed even at his most closest friend.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  3. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

    Better than Sonic Genesis... Member
    220
    63
    28
    I'll concede that his attitude does improve as you progress through the story, but he's not very likable in the opening scene on South Island. In the context of SA1, I suppose it's fair enough that he acts that way, but it's a very fine balance between being slightly irritable and a complete jerk. In my opinion, Sonic is supposed to be kind and caring towards his friends (even if they sometimes annoy him as Amy has constantly), not rude and self-centered as he comes across early in the OVA.

    Even with Eggman there's some level of respect, he views him as a guy he can have fun with in a carefree, teasing manner as opposed to "haha, you suck". Sonic teases Eggman and foils his plots because it's fun, it provides him with adventure, and he has a strong sense of justice, while Eggman is the straight man who, while quirky and kooky, takes his work very very seriously and wants to one-up Sonic to shut him up. With those two, it's treated very much like a big game the two are constantly playing (ironically) until Eggman steps over the line to endanger innocent lives and Sonic has to get serious. Never once do you see Sonic go beyond playful teasing and into outright disrespect in the mainline games.
     
  4. Nova

    Nova

    オ カ エ リ ナ サ λ Site Staff
    3,695
    125
    43
    Friends often get annoyed with each other and rip on each other or tell each other to shut up - if anything, it can be a sign of closeness, knowing that the other person knows you and trusts you enough you don't mean anything too harsh by it. I prefer Sonic to have a mild attitude problem, as it makes him a flawed character and to me, that's a lot more interesting in most cases.

    Thinking about it, I would say the reason Goku gets away with basically being perfect in the sense that he's just a morally righteous and pure character anyway, is because as many have stated before, he changes the characters around him. There could be an argument there for Sonic to be sort of similar but if you really think about it, it's never really seen or demonstrated in any meaningful way.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  5. I mean, Sonic does have an influence on the characters around him.

    And its funny because Dragon Ball's author intended for Goku to be a little impure; Goku's motivated mainly to fight strong opponents, saving people is secondary. Its why he spares most of his opponents, its less out of kindness and more to have someone to fight.

    The English dub and movies up his heroic traits more. And ironically, there's a bit of controversy in the English fandom about Goku's morality and his willingness to endanger people for his selfish goals.
     
  6. JustAMotobug

    JustAMotobug

    Badnik Member
    87
    6
    8
    United States
    ????
    Personally, I find Classic's characterization the best out of the fact that it's a natural combination of cute and cool, which work into what the character was originally supposed to be portrayed as. At the same time, it helps better for immersing yourself into the games because the main protagonist has hardly any dialog. Modern Sonic's Engrish is a charm as well, but I guess no dialog fits the games' serial aesthetic.
     
  7. Nova

    Nova

    オ カ エ リ ナ サ λ Site Staff
    3,695
    125
    43
    Uh, not really, no? And if he does, it never sticks. Sonic hasn't ever had a consistently-written story all the way through so it just isn't possible in the same way.

    Ok so you have totally the wrong impression of Goku. Goku will always try to save people, especially his friends. He is also battle hungry. You can be both and I hate this 'one or the other' most fans seem to have these days. In literally chapter 3 of the manga, Goku can jump on and ride Kinto'un around. Something only able to be done by the pure of heart. In the most recent anime arc, he gets a massive power up and gives a huge speech about saving his friends and he throws himself in harm's way to do so. This is absolute nonsense. Just because he's not a righteous hero, doesn't mean he isn't 'pure of heart'.

    I don't give a fuck what English Dragon Ball fans are arguing about because, for the most part, they have no idea what Toriyama's intent is and have never read the manga.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  8. Forte

    Forte

    I speak better after three beers Member
    31
    28
    18
    Poland
    Goku always seemed a bit more selfish in the manga, as Toriyama intended. Anime made him a bit more heroic, because it's an adaptation. I think the first time Its really evident in Anime, is during Cell Games.

    And then we have Super!Goku which is a totally different character from either original manga or Anime he acts like a selfish child all the time.

    By the way, Nova - I didn't attach any images to my previous post, and I don't see anything attached there :O
     
  9. Ah yes, Goku. My favorite Sonic character
     
  10. Tails, Amy, and Blaze are characters that immediately come to mind. The former two's stories in Sonic Adventure are directly a result of their relationship with Sonic, and the latter's story is about her opening him to him. That's the kind of influence Sonic's presence has in the series.


    This is literally a quote from an Interview from Akira Toriyama in 2015 around the time with Resurrection of F came out about Goku's personality.

    And here's the source in case you think I'm bullshitting.

    https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/wired-japan-1997-akira-toriyama-interview/

    Not that I want this to be some "Gotcha" moment, but I don't know why you would assume that "nobody knows what they're talking about" when this is literally been public information for over five years dude :\
     
  11. Nova

    Nova

    オ カ エ リ ナ サ λ Site Staff
    3,695
    125
    43
    Refrain from being a smartass. Conversation moves and it's tangentially related to the topic. Deal with it.

    He was barely ever selfish in the manga. I think so many people seem to mix this up and think it's anime = heroic, manga = selfish/impure. Things aren't so cut and dry. Yes, he has moments where his passion for training and fighting overcome his other traits but he's very rarely straight-up selfish or anything.

    I think many people confuse 'pure' with 'heroic'. They aren't the same thing. At all. Goku is a pure character in the same way Luffy is. Sometimes they get angry, sometimes their priorities are wrong but they are essentially as pure as a character can be. I repeat again, in literally Chapter 4, Goku acquires a magic cloud that can only be ridden by somebody with a pure heart. You literally can't get any clearer than that.

    As for how this relates to Sonic because apparently some jackass can't take the fact that discussions are organic, Sonic doesn't really need to be 'pure of heart' (at least not in the same way), nor do I think that's as interesting for his character. I prefer a wise-cracking Sonic that has banter with his friends. That's kind of what the character was originally supposed to be as evidenced by his characterization in practically any media prior to Sonic Adventure.

    EDIT: AGAIN @Sonic5993 you are mixing up 'heroic' with 'pure'. Goku cares about two things. Getting stronger, and his friends/family. That's it. What I mean is he isn't a very flawed character, and that's fine for him because his story supports that and makes use of it. Sonic's does not. Also, Toriyama is notoriously fickle in interviews - I've already read through practically everything on Kanzenshuu and own the entire physical run of the manga myself and if you can point me to one part in it where Goku acts in an impure way, I'll concede you may have a point.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021

  12. This is just my personal opinion now, but how are you defining "pure" here? Yes, Goku is defined as "pure", but pure of what? Pure of goodness, or what have you. He's very clearly framed as a heroic and inspiring figure in his story, but his obsession with fighting is noted to be a strength as much as it is a weakness. Vegeta's been described as "Pure Evil" as a justification for his ascension to Super Saiyan, so what's the "pure" qualification for Goku?

    Yes Toriyama is fickle, but that doesn't mean his words have no merit. Personally speaking, I feel the "poison" Toriyama speaks about are very much the cracks in Goku's "pure" image, but the story acknowledges that.
     
  13. Aerosol

    Aerosol

    FML and FU2 Moderator
    10,696
    119
    43
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    "Pure" as in he has no character arc. He never changes. He is who he is from day dot. He changes the people around him, not vice versa.
     
  14. Nova

    Nova

    オ カ エ リ ナ サ λ Site Staff
    3,695
    125
    43
    He is pure of heart. He never has ill intentions. The 'poison' Toriyama speaks of isn't there in the manga at all. Fuck knows where he's pulling that from. Again, it would not be the first time Toriyama has flat out contradicted himself in an interview. Maybe he means Goku's habit of making bad calls and allowing things to go from bad to worse - but even those never stem from ill intentions, just bad judgement. If there was any flaw to Goku's character, it's that he doesn't think things through all the time.

    I can guarantee if I was so inclined I could spend a while picking through Toriyama interviews over the years and find one that supports exactly what I'm saying. My point is that the man is, as I said, notoriously fickle with his own material. For the third time, Goku literally has a magic cloud that will NOT LET YOU ON if you have an impure heart and it is one of the first things to happen in the series and a huge part in establishing Goku's character early on, especially by frequently comparing the inability of the other characters to ride it throughout the story from then on.

    Either way, this has run it's course. Let's get back on track. If you have anything to add, feel free to DM me about it but let's not shit this up any more than it already has been.
     
  15. Aerosol

    Aerosol

    FML and FU2 Moderator
    10,696
    119
    43
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    I don't have a favorite characterization of Sonic from the games. I unironically think Sonic X had the best characterization for the rat.

    Why? Cause he's a bit of an asshole. Not a whole lot, but just a little bit. I find it endearing when he's like that. The games only have moments like this, like for example Sonic's look of complete apathy while Tails is getting all excited over the Egg Carrier transforming. Straight side-eyes the hell out of the boy and completely ignores what he said. Classic. He's like that basically all the time in Sonic X and I'm here for it.

    EDIT: Also "Dark Era" lmao what?
     
  16. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

    Better than Sonic Genesis... Member
    220
    63
    28
    Eh, these are just the names that people have given to the different eras of the franchise in general.

    I personally wouldn't say Sonic was a jerk in Sonic X, but I do agree his characterization was fairly spot-on. Take his interactions with Chris for example (please don't get into a diatribe on him please, let's not beat another dead horse), when he shuts down the portal back to Sonic's world and runs off with Chris, Sonic's first reaction is "ok cool, we'll run as long as you want to buddy" as opposed to outright anger. He knows the kid is afraid of going back into a situation where his parents are gone all the time and he's truly alone and his running off is just a knee-jerk reaction. He waits for Chris to be bothered by his own selfish behavior and realize on his own that he can't hold onto Sonic forever. Plus he loves adventure, so why not one last adventure with the kid before he has to go? Sonic's really quite gentle honestly, he knows when to give people space to work out their problems. IDW likewise shows off this trait in his early interactions with Whisper.

    I am curious what you're seeing though Aerosol.
     
  17. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    Cranky Cynic Member
    When it comes to Sonic having an attitude, don't forget "I'm outta here!" in Sonic CD.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  18. I'm... fully aware. Sonic has dragon ball influences- am I not allowed to laugh about it?
    Are we really taking this discussion this seriously? Because frankly I thought the rest of us were having a good time examining these comparisons.

    And yes, discussions are very organic, and fluctuate constantly. You should see my discord logs ;)
     
  19. Nova

    Nova

    オ カ エ リ ナ サ λ Site Staff
    3,695
    125
    43
    Your post contributed nothing to the discussion and you came across like a smartass. I'm not the only one who thought so.
     
  20. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

    I like Sonic Advance Member
    1,123
    168
    43
    Lyon, France
    Drawing, studying Japanese
    If we're not allowed being smartasses anymore then we might as well close the whole place down lol