Characterization in the Sonic Franchise

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Beamer the Meep, Apr 2, 2021.

What style of characterization do you prefer?

  1. Classic Era Characterization

    57 vote(s)
    58.8%
  2. Adventure Era (SA1 - SH) Characterization

    51 vote(s)
    52.6%
  3. Dark Era (ShTH - SU) Characterization

    13 vote(s)
    13.4%
  4. Modern Era (SC - SF) Characterization

    13 vote(s)
    13.4%
  5. Other

    12 vote(s)
    12.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    Ok, but no, that 's not how I think they deal with rolling/spinning.

    Sonic's spin attack was a "technique" not because hedgehogs don't roll by default, but because thanks to his speed his rolling becomes a weapon, he's like a living chainsaw. More than Amy can or cannot spin, thing here is she wouldn't do it at supersonic speeds, less so if she's both young and untrained, but at some point she got a magical hammer and learned to use that instead in a better or worse way.

    Now yes, Tails and Ray spinning is stupid because they're so fluffy; even if rolling wasn't weird for foxes or squirrels, they have no natural weapon. It makes a lot more sense for Tails that said tails are dangerous during his propeller flight for the same reasons those tails allow him to somehow follow Sonic's speed; if we're gonna have impossible natural skills, better exploit the signature ones instead of cloning what the main character did first.

    But now that we are with impossible signature skills, fluffy animals rolling still make more sense than an echidna gliding, and we don't complain about that, do we? It must be some acquired chaos power, right? There's no other explanation for that.

    So yes, you can say real world species are not a factor in deciding this stuff, but Mighty is an armadillo with a hard shell and amradillos also roll in real life, so being that hard excuses him from becoming a wrecking ball, and Ray glides because he is, well, a flying squirrel; are you sure real world species is not a factor?

    Truth is, only convenience and cool design are factors. I always found brutal they removed back quills from Amy, brutal as in they mutilated her, but she had to look more like a girl and less like a Sonic, yes? Because there are a Sonic MkII (Shadow) and a Sonic MkIII (Silver) who retain enough of a hedgehog look, much like all the mecha doppelgangers. In all those cases, they're reinventing Sonic in some way, but that's not the case with Amy, so they demote her from being a hedgehog or make her a hedgehog again when they need to. Convenience and cool design, as I said.

    I mixed a couple of things here to both show there are explanations of all kinds for things you're asking them for, but also that this inconsistency and constant change of mind is deliberate and obeys to nothing but the development of each individual project as much as continuity does, so yes, Amy now rolls, now she doesn't, and only hedgehogs grind rails, and only male hedgehogs can become super in modern games.
     
  2. Trickster's Joke

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    I don't think calling it " Honor " is the correct call, I don't think eggman should have honor. But eggman being an egotistical weirdo who needs to see his opponent broken I feel is fitting depending on the interpretation. I do agree maekawa's eggman was weird, mainly because nothing was done with it. They give him a grandfather a cousin that should be some sort of influence on how he became the eggman, but after all of it doesn't seem like he cares. At this point you could reboot sonic adventure 2 and the connecting games to have Gerald and maria be unrelated to him and the story would play out exactly the same.

    And I think i'm ok with that? I don't know if I want my eggman having any real depth these days, i'm ok with him staying relatively simple


    We don't talk about how Blaze got stuffed with silver who was at the time and to many now, a giant looser to push him for summer slam. His push failed, and instead of just pushing blaze they just kept them together and gave up. There's a lot of things you can say about a lot of the sexism that has existed in a lot of this series, only male hedgehogs can go super is still a rule, but the thing that happened to blaze sums it up niceley.

    They created a cool character, didn't value you her because she was a woman and let a lot of her potential wash away into nothing. It sucks


    I feel like sega internalizing some of these surface level comparisons has actively made the material worse. I guess that is what happens when the people making the material or the company that owns the IP don't get why people ever enjoyed the material or what make sit good. And/or a lot of the people who made it good or either long gone, or are restricted by the IP holder who doesn't understand what makes it good
    I think shadow, at least written well at his core, wants to fufill maria's wish and help people where he can. I think the title of ultimate life form, didn't mean that much to him besides the last thing he has from the incident. Well untill recent character changes
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021 at 5:39 PM
  3. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    You're missing the context, which was that all the characters that are "Sonic's rivals" aren't actually his rivals. Besides Jet maybe.
     
  4. "rival" has always been really loose in this context; technically speaking, the context people use that term in when it comes to Sonic or other battle Shonen franchises is a "foil".

    But eh, rival is just a catch-all term I suppose.
     
  5. Laura

    Laura

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    Shadow and Metal Sonic are textbook rivals because they both want to be faster than Sonic. Knuckles wants the emeralds so he's a rival too. Not the most stellar motivations but we are talking about Sonic stories here.
     
  6. Zephyr

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    There's also Shadow's "I'm the coolest", line, which suggests that he also would like to be cooler than Sonic.
     
  7. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    I kinda disagreed with all of this in the post that was quoted in the one that the post you've quoted was in response to already, but I'll reiterate.

    Sonic doesn't really want the emeralds in general, so Knuckles isn't a classic rival.

    Shadow can teleport. I'd disagree that he really cares about being faster than Sonic anymore.

    And Metal wants to be the only Sonic. He'd be happy for Sonic to just be dead I'd think.

    As an aside: is Shadow's "I'm the coolest" line a mistranslation? It's so weird.
     
  8. Laura

    Laura

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    I agree in regards to Knuckles because he's most concerned about the Master Emerald. They were only rivals in Sonic 3 because Knuckles had been fooled about Sonic's intentions.

    But Shadow? I think you can definitely argue that he wants to be faster than Sonic. He can teleport but it's highly suggested in SA2 that even that advantage isn't so useful when he's up against Sonic. It's not explicit competition between Sonic and Shadow, but they clearly have banter around the fact that one is not as fast as the other. It's part of the reason their rivalry is as engaging as it is. Because they have a contest over something very tangible and core to the franchise.

    The same is the case for Metal Sonic, only it's far more explicit. Him wanting to be the real Sonic is only really a Sonic Heroes thing. In almost every other appearance he wants to be faster than Sonic which is why he chooses to race him all the time. In Sonic CD and Mania he even mocks Sonic by wagging his finger before the race starts. I think the fact he wants Sonic dead has no bearing on the fact they are rivals.
     
  9. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    I'm talking about now. Obviously all these characters are introduced as rivals but now? They're either antagonists or just supporting characters who are into their own things. They can be competitive in the way friends often are but it's not like a Gary/Ash situation.

    And Metal doesn't want much of anything anymore but to do whatever Eggman says. Like "kill Sonic"!
     
  10. Laura

    Laura

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    Oh yeah I agree with that. All three characters have definitely degraded over time.

    I think Metal Sonic probably holds up the best. You are right that he's basically just a murder robot but I think you can easily infer that he wants to be better than Sonic and that obviously involves being faster than him. Even in his appearances in weaker games (Sonic 4 Ep 2 for example).
     
  11. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    You're probably right about that, even though I disagree.
     
  12. More like characters who don't actually do anything relevant.


    But in general I agree; on paper, Sega probably does consider those characters are "rivals" to Sonic, but in practice they're just kind of wasting away on the sidelines because Sega have no idea what to do with the supporting cast in general.

    Its more of a marketing gimmick than anything.
     
  13. Boxer Hockey

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    Maybe it's semantics but when I think of a great rival character I think of someone that has the same goal as the protagonist, but is going about getting it in a different way.
    Sonic doesn't have a goal that he really shares with anyone. Game-to-game it's "stop Eggman", but generally that's circumstantial for any of Sonic's "rivals". Knuckles doesn't care if it doesn't involve his island, Shadow doesn't care if it doesn't involve his little crew. Even Sonic doesn't pro-actively go after Eggman unless Eggman starts shit first. It's kind of tough because Sonic's goal isn't even to go faster. He just goes his speed, and it's never been written that leveling up Goku-style is a goal either. Occasionally one might try to out race the other, but it's not a rivalry in that it's something these characters really seem to care about outside of the moment.
     
  14. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    They're semantics, but they're the ones I'm using so I'll allow it :eng99: