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Character Art

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Vincent, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. Volpino

    Volpino

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    I think one of the points of making something 'HD' is making the screen resolution wider anyway. Especially since most computers now actually have wider screens.
     
  2. nineko

    nineko

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    <!--quoteo(post=461173:date=May 30 2010, 10:42 AM:name=W.A.C.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (W.A.C. @ May 30 2010, 10:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=461173">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought the resolution was going to be the Genesis resolution but just four times larger.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's what I've been hoping for months :(
     
  3. Fred

    Fred

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    <!--quoteo(post=461162:date=May 30 2010, 08:35 AM:name=GerbilSoft)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GerbilSoft @ May 30 2010, 08:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=461162">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=461091:date=May 29 2010, 08:51 PM:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo @ May 29 2010, 08:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=461091">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->here I scaled it down to 224, maximum Genesis brightness<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is actually a common misconception. The Genesis doesn't use 24-bit RGB, it uses 9-bit RGB. An MD color value of 0xEEE, which is the maximum value that can be stored in the Color RAM, maps to pure white. (The R, G, and B output lines on the console are set to +1.0V.) Most emulators incorrectly scale this to 224 because they simply shift the 3-bit component values to the left by 5 bits.

    Hence, pure white should in fact be RGB(255,255,255) on the Genesis. (Incidentally, why are you attempting to limit yourself to the Genesis color palette in an "HD" remake?)

    *addendum: previously, it was thought that when Highlight was enabled, you'd end up with a color even brighter than regular white. This turned out to be false; highlighted 0xEEE is the same as normal 0xEEE.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I knew somebody would bitch, which is why I made the third version.

    The problem is, like I've said, white is 255,255,255, while all the other colors seem to have a maximum brightness of 231 in any channel. In the third example I simply dropped everything after 231 and mapped 0-231 to 0-255, fixing the brightness issue.

    When was it discovered that highlight doesn't affect pure white? There's always been a split over whether it should be 0-224, or 0-255, or even 0-238. It's cool that there's finally a definitive answer, I'm just curious.
     
  4. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=461215:date=May 30 2010, 03:27 PM:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo @ May 30 2010, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=461215">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When was it discovered that highlight doesn't affect pure white? There's always been a split over whether it should be 0-224, or 0-255, or even 0-238. It's cool that there's finally a definitive answer, I'm just curious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I've always used 238 as maximum brightness for SMD's normal palette, so I guess I should change my ways too. Not that it really matters that much.

    I like the third version of Sonic best. I think it'd help him stand out just a tiny bit more.
     
  5. <!--quoteo(post=461091:date=May 29 2010, 07:51 PM:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo @ May 29 2010, 07:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=461091">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All of Sonic's sprite seems to take 231 as the highest brightness possible, except (for some ballbrained reason) the eyes, which are pure white and thusly brighter than everything else. What this results is in Sonic's skin looking too dark. There are two possible solutions: darken the eyes to make them match the rest of the sprite (here I scaled it down to 224, maximum Genesis brightness):
    [​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Huh, I hadn't noticed this before but I do think the darkened eyes look better. Making everything else brighter makes it look like there's some weird light source that only affects white. My two cents, and since I'm contributing jack shit to the project I guess they don't really matter. =P
     
  6. LOst

    LOst

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    <!--quoteo(post=461162:date=May 30 2010, 11:35 AM:name=GerbilSoft)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GerbilSoft @ May 30 2010, 11:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=461162">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*addendum: previously, it was thought that when Highlight was enabled, you'd end up with a color even brighter than regular white. This turned out to be false; highlighted 0xEEE is the same as normal 0xEEE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I would love to have some proof of this!
     
  7. Ayu Tsukimiya

    Ayu Tsukimiya

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    <!--quoteo(post=461137:date=May 29 2010, 11:48 PM:name=Volpino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Volpino @ May 29 2010, 11:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=461137">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, he did darken the eyes. The skin is an optical illusion effect since you aren't getting the 'bright' effect from the eyes. Maybe just brighten up all the white parts on the sprite instead of darken the eyes?

    Edit: I also managed to find that concept I was going on about in Retro's wiki. I can't believe I didn't look there before...

    [​IMG]

    I'm still trying (key word: trying) to do Tails (the hold up is that I still have no clue how to effectively shade in Inkscape without creating 10,000 layers) and this is the concept I'm going off as a reference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's from Sonic Jam, correct?

    If you're going with that direction, maybe it would be a better idea to completely change his normal standing sprite to match that. His original genesis sprite doesn't seem to look very good in HD, unlike Sonic.

    It's probably a shitty suggestion, but maybe you guys could make a brand new standing sprite based off these two pictures, if you plan on using the concept artwork for reference on his running animations.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Maybe you can mishmash these (and the genesis sprite) to get a good look for Tails.
     
  8. Willie

    Willie

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    The S3&K sprites would make a good basis for HD Tails. It's mostly just an improved version of the Sonic 2 styled Tails sprites anyways.
     
  9. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Personally I think that the HD sprites for this game should all be inspired off the artwork, not imitations of the original sprites. I get the whole authenticity behind why you would try to get the HD sprites based off the old ones but if they had the option back in the day do you honestly think that they would have had Sonic look exactly like he does in the game or would they try to base him off the Sonic on the box art covers and stuff from Japan?
     
  10. SonarDragon

    SonarDragon

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    <!--quoteo(post=480394:date=Jul 16 2010, 06:49 PM:name=W.A.C.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (W.A.C. @ Jul 16 2010, 06:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=480394">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The S3&K sprites would make a good basis for HD Tails. It's mostly just an improved version of the Sonic 2 styled Tails sprites anyways.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They're exactly the same.

    Just the red shading on his fur is changed to brown.
     
  11. Willie

    Willie

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    Yeah, and the shading looks vastly better. That, and his flying animation was a huge improvement.
     
  12. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Which reminds me... Is Tails going to be able to swim?
     
  13. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    That's a pretty good question now that you mention it. We haven't given any consideration to it yet. I don't have anything against it, and I'll bring it up with the others to get their take on it.
     
  14. steveswede

    steveswede

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    I did ask ages ago. I thought you had already come to the conclusion that it was going to be done. Though I asked if the Sonic 3 abilities was going to be option in the option menu.

    <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=10489&hl=insta&st=630" target="_blank">http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?sho...nsta&st=630</a>
     
  15. Volpino

    Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    <!--quoteo(post=480394:date=Jul 16 2010, 06:49 PM:name=W.A.C.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (W.A.C. @ Jul 16 2010, 06:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=480394">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The S3&K sprites would make a good basis for HD Tails. It's mostly just an improved version of the Sonic 2 styled Tails sprites anyways.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I disagree. Tails' Sonic 3 sprites are missing the red shading on his fur, it's the same color as the brown shading which takes away a shade which makes parts of his fur lose detail. Basically, it's a result of Sega being lazy and, while they designed a new 3D model for Sonic's sprites, did fuck all with Tails and used a 3D model only where they needed to which doesn't match Tails' sprites at all and looks like a hot mess on steroids.

    I'm going off Sonic 2 for the shading since it's not off. And I liked Tails flying animation in Sonic 2. He looked cuter.

    Though my progress is slow... I'm having trouble shading in InkScape, not because I just can't do it but because it requires a ton of objects on screen at once and it makes my computer lag. Is there a way to use the gradient tool in Inkscape with custom shapes? So far the only ones I have available to me are lineat and sunburst, there is no option for, say, making the gradient conform to the shape of Tails' tails other than warping a circle slightly.
     
  16. Willie

    Willie

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    Personally, I think the colors look much worse in StH2 but oh well. We all have our own preferences. I liked Sth1&3's Sonic sprites better than the StH2 sprite. >_>
     
  17. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Why even base it on the sprites at all? Just use the concept art which already looks much more lovely than any upscaled sprite would look.
     
  18. Volpino

    Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    <!--quoteo(post=483135:date=Jul 24 2010, 05:39 AM:name=Chimpo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chimpo @ Jul 24 2010, 05:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=483135">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why even base it on the sprites at all? Just use the concept art which already looks much more lovely than any upscaled sprite would look.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    In part, to get the proportions right. But I do think the art, in this case, is probably a better reference.

    This is what I did at first, I've been using this as a base. It's not shaded and the colors are wrong but I've been doing the sprites off this concept. (and part of why it took me so long to even come up with the few that I have is because I constantly redo things and this is a rough idea)

    [​IMG]

    I have recently edited it a bit after realizing one of the sprites I was doing was off. This isn't really meant to be totally detailed, and I'm trying more to go with what the example mockup was showing on the actual sprites, but anything that anyone could toss out there that would be helpful would be appreciated. I was going off the official artwork when I made this base.

    Edit: And the image became warped when resized so I need to go fix that.
     
  19. steveswede

    steveswede

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    That's quite impressive Volpino. This is the only Tails mockup I've seen so far where the proportions are looking very tight. Only thing that I can really notice is that his head is a little too big and out of proportion at the back.
     
  20. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    This is why the game should use graphics based off official and concept art using the sprites as references rather than upscaled sprites. The head's too squished, the shoes are too long and pointy, and the eyes look weird. Of course you were basing this off the sprite and it does a good job of doing that, unfortunately the original sprite doesn't look that good. Granted, the poses are good, and those should be imitated as much as possible, but the proportions and the art should be based off artwork and concept art. Same goes for Sonic too.

    Like why can't the characters be based off these images?

    <a href="http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Sonic/Megadrive/sonic07_32.png" target="_blank">http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Sonic/.../sonic07_32.png</a>
    <a href="http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Tails/Megadrive/tails03_32.png" target="_blank">http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Tails/.../tails03_32.png</a>
    <a href="http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Knuckles/Megadrive/knuckles01_32.png" target="_blank">http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Knuckl...uckles01_32.png</a>
    <a href="http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Eggman/eggman01_32.png" target="_blank">http://sonicresearch.org/art/albums/Eggman/eggman01_32.png</a>

    The sprites may not come out as pixel perfect in the end but they'll look better because of it anyway
     
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