Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Vincent, Mar 22, 2010.
How do these badniks turn around (if they do, I think they do)? Is there a turning animation?
Neo, if you'd bothered to post intelligent criticism like you just did instead of telling us to 'not make shit up', you wouldn't have gotten a post trashed in the first place. Don't go blaming an admin for your not taking the time create a better post like you did on the second attempt.
So far most people are pleased with our decision to make the jets longers, and I think it's understood why we did it, as I outlined that in the description for it. Your going to lengths to describe the differences in the eyes is nothing short of confusing. First you ask which it's going to be, and then you make slight changes to the art which we've already demonstrated isn't going to be one thing or the other -- it's going to be menacing, not innocent.
As for saying it's what we presented as an upscale sprite, that's not accurate in the slightest. The second version we put up under uber was trying to recreate the original on a 4x scale, but I don't see that version anywhere in your post. We're not using upscales of sprites anywhere in the final game. This isn't new information, and it's one of the main reasons we're posting changelogs: for people to see the evolution of the various assets in the game. And yes, we will be adding some things along the way that we're present in the original game. We've shown this with just about everything we've put up so far, so it's not new, and it's part of our art direction for the game. It's blending the best of the artwork with what is artistically appropriate for the Sonic 2 world. Given how subjective art is, we don't expect everyone to agree 100% on us with that, but at least you're fully aware of our reasoning behind it now.
tl;dr - the jets are more than likely going to stay long, but we'll consider what you said about the eyes if there's a large number of other people who feel the same.
ICEknight, currently he doesn't have any wobble, but I like the idea you have there.
Sonica, we do have turning animations for those, and they've been extended with additional frames just like everything else.
I have to agree with the changes to the eyes Neo has done here. It's a small touch that does make a big difference.
I second that comment about the Buzzer's eyes being wrong. Seriously the artwork is probably based on earlier designs of the enemies and isn't completely reliable.
Badniks of that era ALWAYS look aimlessly into the middle distance. The ones which don't are those which act as an obstacle in Sonic's path. Ignoring the prototype badniks, the "angry" looking sprites include Clucker, Crawl, Crawlton, Grabber, Shellcracker, Slicer, Sol and Spiker (which recycles graphics and so doesn't count). Each of these enemies are either very slow or are static - they're the "avoid this you git"-style badniks. There's also few such as Chop Chop which mostly lack expressions. The same (mostly) applies to Sonic 3&K.
Buzzer isn't like that. Buzzer flies around stupidly aiming shots in the general direction of Sonic. It's stupid by design, and seeing as it's an early enemy, this makes perfect sense. It's not an angry enemy. Even in Sonic 4 Buzzer stares into the middle distance.
Later games messed this up a bit but that's because it's not immediately obvious what the "rules" are. Westerners like angry things for some reason - see Kirby for example.
Also I'd personally shorten the jets too, but that's so it looks less like a Sonic Advance badnik.
and for the record I don't believe the old Buzzers looked angry - I think they were just poorly sprited.
Yeah, I agree with the edited eyes too. I didn't think about it at first, but now I've seen it that way, I prefer it.
Keep the jets long (well, not as short as the uber ones, at least).
OK. Criticism is fine, but you're stepping over into bitching territory. Stop it.
I trashed your old post and the latest one because they were terrible. If you have actual criticism to give, then provide actual reasoning instead of "Some stuff is bad, stop making shit". A mile long post isn't necessary to give feedback. Just don't be a dick about it and maybe I won't trash your post.
I too agree, the eye-lids are shaped to look more synonymous to the official artworks and since it's a robot, it doesn't have that eye shine. Personally, it doesn't make sense for it to have a shiny eye since it's not a living thing and since it hurts my eyes with 'too much shiny'. And the barel jet is smaller (not too small like the uber) so it's better. I don't care what the admins say, I find it stupid to trash and troll his post. It's valid opinion and critic with reason.
But apart from that, I like what I see and I like this art direction so far. S2HD will blow my mind for sure :D
Thanks for the housecleaning Chimpo.
Retroman: That's why I said that if enough people have the same view on it and can bother to express themselves without a tantrum we'll take heed. Thanks for your support
The problem is that his previous post (the one that got trashed) wasn't valid criticism, it was outright bitching, I do agree with his opinion about the eye though, IMO the shine-less eye seems to fit better than the shiny one.
Let's move back on topic, please. For future suggestions, try to phrase them diplomatically. Regardless, legitimate concerns and suggestions should be treated as such without there being a tirade about it from either side. Thank you.
I like both of the changes to the eyes. I have to agree, the emotionless stare is so right for the game. The poor little animals have lost all their personality. They're acting against their will. It's just right (or wrong - whatever)... And if it has to be the other way (the angry way), I'd prefer the cleaner version Neo posted also.
Just putting in my support for a minor change (hopefully that's enough people now).
Jet barrels are fine though in my opinion.
I don't have a strong opinion for either eye style, but if you do keep the angry eyes, please darken the eyelids. I actually didn't notice them at first glance, so that should be a big clue-in about how easily people who just see them moving by at high speeds would notice.
Oh ok, sorry I kinda got confused about who Chimpo was talking about, I thought it was Neo :v:
But anyway, I was wondering if you are still accepting art submissions because I really want to start on some HDing of non-remastered sprites.
I also liked the first change to the eyes, as at first I couldn't tell if the original was meant to to be shading or eye-lid.
I don't agree with the proponents of dead look, though. That is up to the artistic vision of the team, and shouldn't be changed because others say so.
Not that it would be changed because of that, but wanted to say I support the set artistic vision.
We're always open to submissions for stuff whether it be a rough concept or a highly fleshed out piece. My only words of advice to you would be to label your work appropriately, put said work in the proper thread/s, and focus on things that aren't related to Emerald Hill or Hill Top.
It's not like changing the eyes a bit is a drastic change in direction... Personally I'm not too fussed either way (I can't imagine why anyone would be of course). They can stay the way they are for all I really care (they still look good)... Although I do prefer the two alternatives posted. Not quite the way the second was done, but it was obviously just a quick mock up. It's just one of those little things that stood out to me when I was a kid . Those dead eyes... creepy.
I personally think that having all the graphics based on the official artwork is giving the most consistent results so far.
If anything, some stuff in the new sprites still seems to be a little too based on the original sprites instead of the artwork (like Sonic's head and body shapes or Coconut's ear placement, as I've noted before).
ICEknight, that's the main reason we started using those as the primary reference! The artwork has far more character than the original sprites do. The final pieces are blends of the original artwork fitted to the size limitations of the sprites with artistic license used to balance out the two. I'm glad to see that most people appreciate how things are turning out; we fully expect to show off artwork and get diverse opinions on them, and when most people are pointing out the same thing then it becomes worthy of another look for future revision. But only when those suggestions are backed up with well thought out reasons behind them.
The set of the eyes looking downward/angry is part of that same artistic outlook we have for the badnik. That look won't change, but the adjustments to that (shading, pupil highlighting) certainly may.
I apologize for beating what may be a dead horse, but would there be any consideration for eyes looking "innocent" while flying and angry while shooting? It seemed to go over well as a good merger of the two back when I first started the buzzer and one could say it gives it a bit more life/expression.
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