Chaotix Hacking (formerly Chaotix Level Editing)

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Andlabs, Jan 29, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SGR

    SGR

    Give me the gams. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=419431:date=Mar 2 2010, 07:00 PM:name=Master Emerald)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Emerald @ Mar 2 2010, 07:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419431">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. andlabs told me this was discovered in the final. How come we weren't able to find it in the 1207 proto?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    NOW That makes sense to me. That's is simply the proto art for the credits, on which, Tails appears on a plane.

    Anyway =P. If that is true, I'm glad they replaced it, 'cause the final is much more detailed.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No, what I'm saying is it's not in the earliest dated proto we have of Chaotix. What I'm getting at is that it was possibly added after 1207, but the Chaotix teams would have no reason for its inclusion because by that point Sonic and Tails were cut. It could very well be in 1207, but compressed in the same format. If andlabs would be willing to check we could find out.
     
  2. Overbound

    Overbound

    Member
    605
    18
    18
    Iowa
    Sonic Time Twisted Creator
    He's in a plane so maybe he was meant to make a cameo.
     
  3. Mercury

    Mercury

    His Name Is Sonic Tech Member
    This is an awesome find! I love the old Tornado design.

    I notice that it reads "Sonic" forwards, even though the Tornado is facing left. This might mean that the Tornado was intended to always face left for its original purpose in the game. Maybe that means it was only going to be for a cinema (such as the ending), not gameplay?
     
  4. Andlabs

    Andlabs

    「いっきまーす」 Wiki Sysop
    2,175
    1
    0
    Writing my own MD/Genesis sound driver :D
    <a href="http://idisk.mac.com/pietro10-Public/chaoview.zip&quot;" target="_blank">Here's the .net 2.0-tastic Chaotix art viewer, showing both types of art. Usage should be pretty straightforward. You can save the current frame to PNG or GIF; both will produce transparent images. Apologies for whatever bad programming may be seen here; I originally did not intend to release this; but if you have Visual Studio 2005 or newer, feel free to hack this if you like (just credit me if you do).</a>










    [​IMG]
    ...?
     
  5. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    Yeah that Super Sonic is not on his gameplay sprite form, so he was just making a cameo with Tails probably..
     
  6. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester

    A D V A N C E Resident Jester
    2,101
    230
    43
    Japan
    That sprite is missing an arm, the arms are seperate object sprites so they can be changed depending on the combi's position, without changing the main character sprite (Or having multiple main sprites for one simple arm change), surely this "could" have been in game as playable?
     
  7. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    2,272
    437
    63
    <!--quoteo(post=419685:date=Mar 3 2010, 09:14 AM:name=Master Emerald)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Emerald @ Mar 3 2010, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419685">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah that Super Sonic is not on his gameplay sprite form, so he was just making a cameo with Tails probably..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    None of the sprites used for Knuckles resemble his S+K ones anyway, so it would make sense if they remade Sonic, though it seems odd this would still be in the memory and no normal Sonic stuff (yet?). The lack of a front arm suggests it was intended for the combi gameplay or some sort of intricate cutscene involving the gameplay sprites (a unique Advance 3-style final boss perhaps).
     
  8. Andlabs

    Andlabs

    「いっきまーす」 Wiki Sysop
    2,175
    1
    0
    Writing my own MD/Genesis sound driver :D
    <!--quoteo(post=419701:date=Mar 3 2010, 10:59 AM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Mar 3 2010, 10:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419701">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=419685:date=Mar 3 2010, 09:14 AM:name=Master Emerald)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Emerald @ Mar 3 2010, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419685">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah that Super Sonic is not on his gameplay sprite form, so he was just making a cameo with Tails probably..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    None of the sprites used for Knuckles resemble his S+K ones anyway, so it would make sense if they remade Sonic, though it seems odd this would still be in the memory and no normal Sonic stuff (yet?). The lack of a front arm suggests it was intended for the combi gameplay or some sort of intricate cutscene involving the gameplay sprites (a unique Advance 3-style final boss perhaps).
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If Sonic is still in the game, his art isn't stored along with the other art in the master pointer list. In fact, it might even just be stuck somewhere in the ROM but never referenced — unlikely because the design of the 32X constrains the code 68000-side, where most of the game logic is. Basically you're limited to access to 1MB of the cart at a time, plus the first 512KB as a constant code block, so maximizing free space was a necessity. I think (I'm not sure) that the reason they didn't just compress all the art is because uncompressing everything would've slowed the game down.

    Also I should note that I have not found a palette that is a better fit for Sonic in this screenshot; in fact, I doubt one is still in the ROM.
     
  9. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    I'm suspecting he was using his blue color scheme. Can you find a pallet that makes him blue?
     
  10. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

    Oldbie
    1,240
    247
    43
    Hmm, in the pointer list it seems both Tails in the Tornado and Super Sonic are grouped right next to the large picture of Sonic & Tails in the Tornado that's used in the good ending. = ) Looking more and more like these were graphics intended for an ending sequence at some point. Also, for those saying Super Sonic's missing his arm, it's a separate sprite grouped in the same set. There's four frames total - two of the body with the quills moving, one of the hand flung out backwards like it is when Super Sonic's running, and one of the hand clenched more like when Sonic's running in the MD games.

    Tried checking out the 1207 proto with this program, but it doesn't work! I assume it reads the pointer list for art from a specific location in the ROM, which would be different in a prototype version... (correct me if I'm talking bollocks, I have no idea how you've put this program together. = P) I seem to remember the old Chaotix Character Art Viewer from a while back had a version released that worked with at least one of the protos - any chance of a similar release here? I'd be surprised if there wasn't anything we haven't seen before hidden in there...
     
  11. SGR

    SGR

    Give me the gams. Member
    Made some mockups:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Most of the coloring was guesswork using mostly existing Chaotix colors. Only two custom colors had to be used, one for the bright whites and one for the coloring on the shoes. I'm uncertain about those white splotches, but I had to improvise. Also the arm positioning, again, was improvised.
     
  12. Dehry

    Dehry

    Member
    92
    1
    8
    Ohio
    This viewer works through prototype 0202. Those sprites exist in all February prototypes leading up to the final. I suspect that 0202 is the first one on final hardware.
    This is the error I got opening Prototype 119
    Code (Text):
    1. System.IndexOutOfRangeException: Index was outside the bounds of the array.
    2. &nbsp;&nbsp; at Chaotix32XSideArtAndPaletteViewer.Form1.readbyte()
    3. &nbsp;&nbsp; at Chaotix32XSideArtAndPaletteViewer.Form1.readlong()
    4. &nbsp;&nbsp; at Chaotix32XSideArtAndPaletteViewer.Form1.readartaddr()
    5. &nbsp;&nbsp; at Chaotix32XSideArtAndPaletteViewer.Form1.button1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
    6. &nbsp;&nbsp; at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
    7. &nbsp;&nbsp; at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
    8. &nbsp;&nbsp; at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
    9. &nbsp;&nbsp; at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
    10. &nbsp;&nbsp; at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
    11. &nbsp;&nbsp; at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
    12. &nbsp;&nbsp; at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
    13. &nbsp;&nbsp; at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
     
  13. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Member
    14,019
    1,153
    93
    Working on my art!
    <!--quoteo(post=419717:date=Mar 3 2010, 09:23 AM:name=SGR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SGR @ Mar 3 2010, 09:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419717">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Made some mockups:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Most of the coloring was guesswork using mostly existing Chaotix colors. Only two custom colors had to be used, one for the bright whites and one for the coloring on the shoes. I'm uncertain about those white splotches, but I had to improvise. Also the arm positioning, again, was improvised.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wow that's actually kind of cool, an original genesis styled Super Sonic. But you have to wonder, seeing as how they just based the sprites for Sonic off those from Sonic 1, why wouldn't they have just used Sonic 2 Super Sonic?
     
  14. SGR

    SGR

    Give me the gams. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=419755:date=Mar 3 2010, 02:06 PM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Mar 3 2010, 02:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419755">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=419717:date=Mar 3 2010, 09:23 AM:name=SGR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SGR @ Mar 3 2010, 09:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419717">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Made some mockups:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Most of the coloring was guesswork using mostly existing Chaotix colors. Only two custom colors had to be used, one for the bright whites and one for the coloring on the shoes. I'm uncertain about those white splotches, but I had to improvise. Also the arm positioning, again, was improvised.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wow that's actually kind of cool, an original genesis styled Super Sonic. But you have to wonder, seeing as how they just based the sprites for Sonic off those from Sonic 1, why wouldn't they have just used Sonic 2 Super Sonic?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The main theory that's going around right now is that these specific sprites are leftovers from a potential alternate ending. Seeing as how they redrew Tails for the biplane, I'm guessing they just wanted to make different sprites for it, that's all. v :) v
     
  15. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

    Arriving four years late. Member
    5,130
    274
    63
    Lincs, UK
    TurBoa, S1RL
    <!--quoteo(post=419755:date=Mar 3 2010, 07:06 PM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Mar 3 2010, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419755">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow that's actually kind of cool, an original genesis styled Super Sonic. But you have to wonder, seeing as how they just based the sprites for Sonic off those from Sonic 1, why wouldn't they have just used Sonic 2 Super Sonic?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There were sprites for Sonic in Chaotix? Even if so, they were probably just ripped from Crackers, which was for standalone MegaDrive. They'd want to rework the sprites to take full advantage of the improved graphics the 32X offers.
     
  16. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Member
    14,019
    1,153
    93
    Working on my art!
    <!--quoteo(post=419764:date=Mar 3 2010, 11:15 AM:name=DigitalDuck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DigitalDuck @ Mar 3 2010, 11:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419764">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=419755:date=Mar 3 2010, 07:06 PM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Mar 3 2010, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419755">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow that's actually kind of cool, an original genesis styled Super Sonic. But you have to wonder, seeing as how they just based the sprites for Sonic off those from Sonic 1, why wouldn't they have just used Sonic 2 Super Sonic?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There were sprites for Sonic in Chaotix? Even if so, they were probably just ripped from Crackers, which was for standalone MegaDrive. They'd want to rework the sprites to take full advantage of the improved graphics the 32X offers.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well Crackers, Chaotix, whatever. Either way when Sonic was in that game a lot of his sprites were based off his Sonic 1 sprites, with a different palette however.
     
  17. Overlord

    Overlord

    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
    18,663
    614
    93
    Berkshire, England
    Learning Cymraeg
    <!--quoteo(post=419759:date=Mar 3 2010, 07:11 PM:name=SGR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SGR @ Mar 3 2010, 07:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419759">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=419755:date=Mar 3 2010, 02:06 PM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Mar 3 2010, 02:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419755">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=419717:date=Mar 3 2010, 09:23 AM:name=SGR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SGR @ Mar 3 2010, 09:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=419717">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Made some mockups:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Most of the coloring was guesswork using mostly existing Chaotix colors. Only two custom colors had to be used, one for the bright whites and one for the coloring on the shoes. I'm uncertain about those white splotches, but I had to improvise. Also the arm positioning, again, was improvised.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wow that's actually kind of cool, an original genesis styled Super Sonic. But you have to wonder, seeing as how they just based the sprites for Sonic off those from Sonic 1, why wouldn't they have just used Sonic 2 Super Sonic?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The main theory that's going around right now is that these specific sprites are leftovers from a potential alternate ending. Seeing as how they redrew Tails for the biplane, I'm guessing they just wanted to make different sprites for it, that's all. v :) v
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Makes sense, yeah.


    These are still pretty damn awesome though! Are these the last made official classic Sonic sprites, do you think? SPA had green eyes, so doesn't count...
     
  18. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->SPA had green eyes, so doesn't count...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    SPA is just classics+green eyes+strong belly =P.
     
  19. Diablohead

    Diablohead

    Indie dev Oldbie
    1,836
    45
    28
    Near London
    games
    I like how the 32x super sonic looks, rather slick.

    *edit* what sonic 4 should have been like...
     
  20. Heran Bago

    Heran Bago

    Ah! It's Puyo battle then. Tech Member
    Stuff is still being discovered hidden in Chaotix. Amazing.

    These sprites would make sense for a prototype ending but also make sense as protos from a proposed/scrapped proper intro. Intro comes to mind because they're 32X remakes of the Sonic 3 intro sprites. It would have been a good starting plot point to say or show why Sonic, Tails, and "Going Super" aren't in the game. If it were to be practically a repeat of the Sonic 3 intro or difficult to implement than it would be first in line to the cutting board.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.