Chaotix 1207 discussion

Discussion in 'Prototype Discussion' started by drx, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. I never considered it a rumour because the similarities were blatantly obvious. Replace the Sonic and Tails sprites in "Sonic Crackers" with the idiots from Chaotix and there is your 32X game. I didn't need a line in a prototype header to tell me that.

    As for why they didn't put Sonic in it is obvious: the game sucked huge ass, and they didn't want to start ruining Sonic games until Sonic 3D Blast :lol:
     
  2. Rafalapso

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    Just a speculative timeline:

    sometime before April 1st, 1994: Hiroshi Fukutsu receives the task to create the proof-of-concept of his gameplay ideas (two characters connected via a elastic line)
    April, 1st 1994: The 04011994 - 1ST ROM "Sonic Crackers" game is built
    sometime before December 07, 1994: Sonic team refuses to allow Fukutsu to use the sonic games engine and main characters, but the other characters were created by other outside sonic team and got inserted in the game.
    December 07, 1994: The last Knuckles Chaotix prototype with traces of the Sonic Crackers code is built. (uses the Attraction Select screen similar of found in Sonic Crackers)

    Considering that Hiroshi Fukutsu only worked in Chaotix and then was never seen again in any game's credits, maybe if someone could find and interview him more details of the Sonic Crackers - Knuckles Chaotix transition could be discovered. (Probably he left sega after the game's launch)
     
  3. Fred

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    See, that's possibly a joke, though. April Fools' Day as a build date more or less usually means it's a fake date. This is what stemmed was generally thought way back in the early years when PACHUKA hadn't even been in jail yet, etc: that the whole title screen was a joke/fake, either a joke by the dev team or later added by hackers (the "sonic crackers"). Not that the whole game was a hack/fake. There's always been too many identifiable relations between Crackers and Chaotix, and the new protos even emphasise that relation with the ability to set the controls just like Crackers' and what not.

    Another thing that we took as 'proof' that the title was fake when we were so god damn dumb we didn't know better jesus christ it was like, 2001 was that it didn't match the ROM name, Sonic Studium. But seeing as we've seen stuff like Knuckles Ring Star and VOLT - THE VOLTAGE, we've wised up and know better now. :P

    EDIT:
    Code (Text):
    1. 22:04 <Tweaker> A joke title screen? Talk about clutching at straws
    2. 22:04 <Neo> That was the general idea when Crackers was found
    3. 22:04 <Tweaker> Well
    4. 22:04 <Neo> I KNOW it isn't a joke, thanks
    5. 22:05 <Tweaker> You said "That was possibly a joke, though" or something similar
    6. 22:05 <Neo> Jesus Christ, did I word it that badly?
    7. 22:05 <Tweaker> Yes
    8. 22:05 <Neo> I'll go ahead and edit it, god
     
  4. drx

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    :rolleyes:
    Your post is a joke, not the build date.
     
  5. Tweaker

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    No.
     
  6. Meat Miracle

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    wasn't it even pachuka who gave the first argument on why crackers is legit? and there has been tons of finds (palettes, sprite animation entries etc) that already proved that crackers is at least very closely related to chaotix.
     
  7. Tweaker

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    I don't think the argument was the connection between Crackers and Chaotix, but rather that the Crackers title screen was a joke. However, this is just as untrue, so... yeah.
     
  8. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Not to mention the Crackers palettes I found in the final Chaotix, a while ago (back in the Area51 days, I think).
     
  9. biggestsonicfan

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    While we're on the subject, and with a sense that a topic split may be imminent, how exactly is the Sonic Crackers title screen generated?
     
  10. Fred

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    Let me sum up a bit of my points before this topic gets split and trashed, because I'm obviously being misinterpreted here (and flamed, for that matter!)

    I know Crackers is a predecessor to Chaotix. It is in no way fake.

    I know the title screen for Crackers is legit. It was not made by any hackers or anything of the sort.

    I do not know, however, whether Crackers was in fact built on April Fools' or not. I see the obvious possibility of this single string of text being a joke. However, I do not defend that theory nor do I dismiss it. I'm just throwing it out there.

    Tweaker seems hell-bent on saying that I'm wrong wrong wrong and saying that the title screen isn't fake even though I KNOW it isn't. He then redirects me to drx for proof.

    drx seems awfully pissed at me even though I've done nothing wrong except asking him how he knows Crackers was built on April 1st, 1994, but doesn't give me any source either.

    I'd seriously just like to know what the hell I did wrong and why the hell is everyone bitching at me for (apparently) all the wrong reasons. Feedback from the rest of the shack?
     
  11. Tweaker

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    As I said in IRC, the burden of proof is on you to support the idea that the string of text is a joke; at the moment, nothing seems to explicitly imply that other than the fact that the game was built on April 1st—a date like any other unless you choose to explicitly associate it with April Fools. And even then, there's nothing joking about it—how the hell is having a build date of April 1st even remotely funny? This eludes me.
     
  12. Smindas

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    Forgive me, I know this doesn't entirely pertain to the discussion at hand, but I want to point this out;

    Please explain this. It has confused me greatly.
     
  13. Fred

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    But similarily, what proof have you that it is definately not a joke? It could be or it could, none of us apparently know (except drx, but he's not telling). As for it not being funny at all, I never said it was. I just pointed out that lots of times the date 04/01 is associated with a joke. Is this one of those cases? I don't know!

    May I point out that the reason for me posting this here was more that of hearing different opinions than continuing to hear yours: I've already got a pretty clear idea of what it is from IRC.

    EDIT:
    Well, arguably, S3&K was the last 'great' Sonic game, so if Sonic wasn't in Chaotix due to someone not wanting to give Sonic a bad name, his or her efforts were in vain, since Sonic games started to lose quality not much later.
     
  14. The question should be: does it really even matter? In the grand scheme of things, does that one line really matter in life? Does it change the game? Does it change the crappy game that Crackers became? There are more important things in life than this.

    Maybe it was a very inside joke, since April 1st was a Friday in 1994; maybe as a joke they said they built it on that day when they really skipped out and went to see some sluts take their clothes off for money at some filthy strip bar. Or maybe it wasn't a joke and it was actually built on that day, at the end of the week, before heading home for the weekend.

    Who knows, and who cares. It's insignificant and incredibly unimportant. Worry about other things that actually affect the games, if you must worry about something like these prototypes.
     
  15. Quexinos

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    And I want to step forward and say I always knew Chaotix was what became of Crackers. I don't think anyone with half a brain has ever argued that point. My concern was whether or not "Sonic Crackers" was ever it's real name (which was proven that it was), and I also wanted to know how far that name carried. I figured as soon as the jump to 32X happened, it immediately became Chaotix/Ring Star... this proves I was wrong. I'm just glad to be a little more clear on the time line of things.

    Than don't post here okay? A lot of us, at least I, want to learn more about the history and how Crackers became Chaotix and this has shined a lot of light on the subject. It's nice to know Tails was once in a 32X Build and so on. Honestly that makes all the prototypes worth it right there if you ask me.
     
  16. Tweaker

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    I think he was talking about the build date issue, not the connection between Crackers and Chaotix. :P
     
  17. Quexinos

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    OH well then yes, who cares about that? XD

    I thought he was just trying to troll.

    EDIT:
    Does April Fools day even exist in Japan? If not that might end the argument right here.
     
  18. JoseTB

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    The date at the title screen is simply an irrelevant detail. Live with it, seriously, it is not a fake title screen or something like that. And for the record and the skeptical, the title screen uses common subroutines used also anywhere else in the actual game. Not to mention the code itself is included as another gamemode in between the sega screen code and the actual gameplay code, so whoever coded it was indeed working with the source code.
     
  19. Snake

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    That doesn't actually prove anything, though. When a project gets canned it's often possible to find that one of the programmers kept a copy of the source code :)

    The thing is, it'd be much easier for somebody to slap in a title screen made in dpaint/photoshop/whatever with the game title written in a huge font than it would be to mess with ascii art. They already have all the tools and could have done it in 30 seconds. I've seen many alphas/betas/protos for many games on multiple platforms, from hundreds of different studios, and have never seen one that looks like this before. It just sticks out as being incredibly odd.

    Sure, it could have been done by the same team, but save talking to the guy that actually coded it, I don't see how anybody can say it was. drx even conceeded that he can't prove that.

    The thing is, though, that the 'dev system' is just a standard retail genesis with a cart plugged in. It's unusual to see code making it onto an EPROM while still being so obviously crashy.
     
  20. Rolken

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    Wait, wait, wait, guys, I've totally figured this out.

    OK, so Naka and Miyamoto had a bet over whether Sonic 3 would outsell Mario 3, and the loser would have to make a game for the winner. So when Naka lost he called his game "Sonic Crackers" because it was making fun of how Mario and Luigi are so white! LOL! And they are always held together by magical energy because Mario and Luigi are like totally gay!!! So that's why it has the 401 build date, because the whole game's a big joke on Miyamoto lol!!!!

    Yeah, that's right, prove me wrong. Oh wait, you can't. QED.