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Celeste captured the appeal of Modern Sonic for me

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Technically Inept, Feb 3, 2022.

  1. …And I no longer feel I need Modern Sonic. I’m fine with them abandoning the boost formula in it’s entirety now in favor of just “Adventure” styled games or the Classics.

    The subject is probably a bit off the wall. Or maybe it has been discussed here before, as maybe I’m not as crazy as I think and others feel similarly. I don’t know. I don’t have that much experience with video games in general.

    It has been my perception for some time now that most in the fandom I have run into view the appeal of the modern boost formula game as purely power fantasy. It is not hard to see why with the extreme speeds and focus on spectacle/automation that comes in these games. And I think I used to agree as I experienced my first taste of it, playing Unleashed PS2 as a younger child.

    But there then followed a period in my life when I lost access to my PlayStation 2, 3, and most of my games, one of which was Generations. During that time, one of the things I took up was watching Generations speed runs.

    Nothing crazy. Not breaking the game or glitches or anything. Just basically completing the levels and taking the faster paths naturally designed into them. But when I got my stuff back and started trying my hands at what I saw, I found a new second favorite Sonic game, and a new appeal of the boost formula:

    Put simply, it is chaining together moves with good timing, moves that feel good to use as they are explosive burst of momentum in new directions. It’s not about maintaining momentum, but redirecting it.

    Stomp is such a burst downward. Notice it’s timed usage around 0:16 here to correct.

    Air boost is such a boost forward, the directional change especially noticeable if you are falling. Notice it’s timed usage around 0:26 here to redirect.

    Blast off mechanic is something else I enjoy, and something I wish they could incorporate into more than just the star of tbe level. Timing a boost in sync with some sort of countdown or something which allows a bigger boost, and much crazier jump height. (0:09)




    And so on.

    Fast forward to now, and I’ve become a bit more jaded and critical of Sonic in general. I don’t even enjoy all of Generations like I used to. I fact I think I only enjoyed 2 or 3 levels in the game last time I played, such as Crisis City Modern and Planet Wisp modern last time I played.

    I felt that these levels focused more on this move chaining, and less the power fantasy of boosting forward or what I would later term “subway surfer’s gameplay” (That’s derogatory, btw) I don’t like the quickstep or slide mechanics at all, as I feel nothing interesting has been done with them.

    I don’t even like the ground boost as it is. I like it in circumstances where you tap it for a burst of momentum, momentum that can be used for increased jump distance and height much like the spin dash. (Except imo, better. You have to line yourself up and point yourself in the right direction before even activating the movie, where as the spin dash as implemented in 3D has been much more forgiving) But the holding aspect of the ground boost, is just not something I enjoy.

    But I do still like the air boost, stomp, and other moves that fall in line with what I mentioned earlier, when implemented well in the game’s level design. And want levels that focus on moves such as that, the greatest example I can think of is action master.



    Btw, for the longest time action master was basically the pinnacle I thought a boost level should be, only detractors being I wished the level pieces you interacted with looked more naturally integrated into the environment visually, less “mario-maker-y” (Yeah, that’s a word. Cuz I said so.)

    Anyways, I preferred the Boost games to the Adventure games because they didn’t have as many of these mechanics. And also, because of the lack of weight in the Adventure games.

    Like, if you hold back on the stick while traveling forward in the air in a boost game, you’re going to have a much harder time slowing down and stopping than in the Adventure games. Many regard this as a negative against the boost games, saying they aren’t responsive enough. I just view it as something that encouraged you to rely on the stomp, having to time it when you came over the platform you want to land on. In other words, just a part of the gameplay that I had come to enjoy.

    With the lack of gaming experiencej expressed at the beginning, I felt such things couldn’t really work in the adventure games. I felt that in order for such timing challenges to happen in a game, an object (you the player) needed to be traveling in a direction, a line. And then you have to make an input when you get a certain point on that line. In this case, you are traveling forward in the air, and have to press the stomp input when you get to a specific point, that point being directly over the platform.

    With generous air control, such timing was not really neeeded I felt. At least, not with as much precision….

    …and then recently I played Celeste.

    And I found it. I found the game that captured the appeal of tbe boost games I valued most, while having better, more responsive controls.



    As far as how it feels to use, I love the air dash mechanic for the same reason I love the air boost, stomp, light speed dash and etc. it is more expressive and deep than these moves, being able to done in any direction.

    And notice here how it is used when you make it certain points of the x and y axis on the screen to accomplish the platforming challenge.

    No “just boost forward” sections of pure boredom. There are level gimmicks and other things that allow for levels to feel more distinct than in the boost games. More responsive controls. A higher difficulty level. The works.

    I still truly believe that the boost games capture a unique appeal that no other gameplays style in the quite does as well or as often. But I don’t think it captured that appeal very well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
  2. penBorefield

    penBorefield

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    What does this have to do with Modern Sonic? Pure speculation and unnecessary.
     
  3. Wraith

    Wraith

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    Modern Sonic has always just kind of been a weaker version of of twitch platformers like Meat Boy, N+, Dustforce and now Celeste for me. Ever since Unleashed got pushback for it's difficulty they focused more on the power fantasy than the mechanics, so it only got worse over time.

    Those games have a lot of answers re: how to make the boost formula less shallow, but you'd have to give up on a lot of the stuff that makes it so appealing to casual players and reviewers so I'm not sure if it's worth it for them.
     
  4. I am a bit confused as to what part of this is speculation
     
  5. penBorefield

    penBorefield

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    I meant you are comparing apples and oranges. They are different games from different studios.
     
  6. I think they are similar in at least one way. That way they are similar is why I liked modern Sonic.

    Celeste does it better, though
     
  7. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Well I love Celeste to death, with all the strawberries and all the B-sides completed (not the C-sides because I just can't). And I simply don't see the connection here.

    If you were talking about Spark the Electric Jester 2, I might see the resemblance. Maybe it's just me though.
     
  8. MykonosFan

    MykonosFan

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    Just for your reference, we have an Edit feature for posts that will let you adjust them. Please avoid double posting in the future.
     
  9. Okay. I will make sure to avoid that
     
  10. Frostav

    Frostav

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    Eh, I'm playing through Celeste for the first time right now and definitely get what OP is saying. Celeste has a lot of sections focused on fluidly chaining Madeline's moveset and burst movement options into a beautifully fluid way, almost like the boost games. Her dash is a very satisfying move to use in the same way things like the air boost and stomp are, with the way it effortlessly propels you in whatever direction you wish. I'd say Celeste is a lot better at designing creative ways to use said burst movement options, though.
     
  11. Thanks for the assurance that I am not completely insane lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
  12. penBorefield

    penBorefield

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    Still not comparable to Modern Sonic though.
     
  13. I’m guessing you don’t like modern Sonic. Possibly a firm believer in all the boost to win stuff?
     
  14. penBorefield

    penBorefield

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    Yeah that's right! I wasn't a fan of the boost move anyway.
     
  15. Yep. That explains it.