Brad Buxer and the S3 Mid Boss Theme

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by LOst, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. I have to agree. Though we should also look at what we know so far. We definitely know what Miyoko Takaoka, Tomonori Sawada, Yoshiaki Kashima, Brad Buxer and Howard Drossin did as they confirmed it themselves. We more or less know what Jun Senoue and Michael Jackson did (some of it was confirmed, some of it not but it's clear enough that it was made by them) and then there's Masanori Hikichi, Sachio Ogawa and Tatsuyuki Maeda and this is where everything comes to a halt. We still know nothing about Ogawa and as far as Hikichi goes, we can say he did ONE song for the game but the question still is which one (my money's still on Mushroom Hill btw). As for Maeda, it's pretty much the same as Ogawa and I'll admit that after listening to Sandopolis, Death Egg and Doomsday once more, I wasn't as sure about him making that as I was before, though I'm still standing by what I've said about Flying Battery, Act 2 Boss and Big Arms, those definitely must be his work.
     
  2. amphobius

    amphobius

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    I'm going to repeat myself.

    Most of this is guesswork. Stop guessing and actually do some analysis, and even then you're still only speculating.

    And by analysis, I mean transcribing and noting composer tendencies, like I said before, not comparing instrumentation (especially not on limited systems; Noriyuki Iwadare used the same instrument set that was used for the Phoenix Wright games before he stepped in and it still sounded like him) or saying basic things like "the bass is the same so this must be a reworked track". I want solid evidence, not some weak flimsy circumstance.
     
  3. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    Right there. Stop that.

    EVIDENCE, Mr. Wright. Your ears are not evidence. Either back it up or stop talking at this stage.
     
  4. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Guys, all those composers might have been given the same guidelines and song examples before they made any of those tracks, not to mention that they may be occasionally using the same instruments due to sharing dev kits and sound engine.

    Some tracks sounding similar means nothing.
     
  5. Overlord

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    Like Gene said.

    [​IMG]

    Evidence, please. =P
     
  6. Laura

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    To be honest, I find the proof that Michael Jackson's music made it into the game is incredibly weak. There's enough evidence to say that he was at once point going to make the music but there's only the word of Buxer that he got some through and that GT interviewee who was anonymous and could be someone in STI.

    The only concrete proof that sounds like Jackson's music is that one beat in Jam and Carnival Night, and honestly that could have been Buxer. I mean, Buxer's credited and Ice Cap is based off his past music. It's way more likely Buxer wrote Carnival Night and he put the beat in Jam.

    As for the Credits music, that could have been Buxer too. The two pieces aren't even that similar so it's totally imaginable that Buxer wrote it and he and MJ unofficially transformed it.

    I find this whole Michael Jackson conspiracy really stretched.
     
  7. PhotonSeek

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    Sometimes, I have a feeling that the Competition theme may be a Japanese compisition, due to using the normal drum kit and its reuse in S3K. It may have been possible that the sound director of S3K Collection just decided to get that track replaced for some reason. Who knows, though.

    Also, to let you all know, I usually judge by compositional style and similarities to previous tracks, not by instruments (I'm only talking about chiptune tracks).
     
  8. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    As long as there's no proof behind, it's next to irrelevant.
     
  9. Hold up for a moment.

    Someone that used to work for SEGA made music for the first SmackDown! game? Do you have concrete evidence of this? What other games have they done?
     
  10. PhotonSeek

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    I am referring to Masafumi Ogata. His name appears in the credits, and for more works look at his Sega Retro page. His style is easily identifiable on many tracks; some even reference material from Sonic CD.
     
  11. redhotsonic

    redhotsonic

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    Don't forget he did "Smackdown 2: Know your role" as well!
     
  12. That's pretty cool! I'm looking at his credits and he seems to have disappeared around 2003 or so, does anyone know if he went on to do other work after that?
     
  13. PhotonSeek

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    He actually disappeared in 2006 after Summon Night 4. It's likely he retired, though it could also be possible (though unlikely) that he died. I wished he was still around, as he is a very underrated composer.
     
  14. PhotonSeek

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    Speaking of Masafumi Ogata, does anyone know anything at all about Masanori Nakayama and Studio Who? I can't find anything on Google. In addition, I'm starting to believe Nakayama may have contributed a track or two, as he is listed in Sound Special Thanks.
     
  15. LOst

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    That's a very good find/work Dissident93! Awesome research and smart thinking :)/>

    Just proves the Sonic 3 composer list is going to be a mess in the end. I think this quote by Takashi Iizuka is interesting:
    "With Sonic 1 and 2, we were working with Nakamura-san, so we couldn't get any extra music, but since with 3 we had the music done in-house, we were able to have a whole lot of music made up for us. We picked out from that selection the music that fit each zone best." (Source: http://info.sonicretro.org/Flying_Battery_Zone).
    And he was talking about Flying Battery, which is still a unknown composer. If anyone meets Iizuka, they should ask him about Flying Battery music specifically and if he did choose it to be in the game.

    Only way to know is to get another source to confirm it. Ogata would be the best source of course.

    Angel Island theme has a specific 1993 techno beat to it (the bass and drums in act 1), and I haven't hear it in any other levels or Sonic games. Maybe that could have been yet another uncredited composer?

    It makes very much sense. Balloon Park sounds like his style in so many ways... But when I asked him in early 2000, he was pretty much dead clear ONLY the bonus stages were his. This was at a time when he was allowed to speak. Maybe today he would remember more.
    Still, he could just have been the arranger of Balloon Park?


    And about Endless Mine. This is a reply to multiple people who thinks Senoue did it. Maybe after he made Seaside Hill, and went back through time... Endless Mine is simple, yet so powerful that it stands out. A true piece of artwork. Again, the facts state than anyone could have made it, including Senoue. I just don't want to give him too much credits just because he is allowed by Sega to do remixes for many Sonic games that he did and did not make. Taking the true composer's glory without credits is not nice.

    But if you said Senoue made the overworld music to Super Mario 3D World's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI8slLrX0kA&feature=player_detailpage#t=1 , and it sure sounds like an Endless Mine copy to me. And then pointed out that this is indeed Senoue's work right here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI8slLrX0kA&feature=player_detailpage#t=36
    Then I would 100% believe that Senoue did Endless Mine.

    Point is, anyone could have done it. Too much good music in Sonic 3, and too many composers, and too many uncredited sources. Still, we know more now than ever before, so we must keep looking, and keep asking :)/>
     
  16. Overlord

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    Endless Mine has a very good chance of being in-house rather than MJ's studio simply because it was remixed in Generations...
     
  17. PhotonSeek

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    Endless Mine is definitely not an MJ composition, as it was reused in the S3K compilation.

    If there's anyone who was an uncredited composer, it's most likely Masafumi Ogata, due to Masayuki Nagao saying Ogata may have composed the title music (though Tomonori Sawada confirmed it as his). It's likely that when he said it was a rearrangement of the S1/2 title music, he was mistaken for SCD. Angel Island Zone MAY have been an Ogata composition, as he does seem to enjoy making techno (like in S2, SCD, Wedding Peach, WWF). Though, I can't really hear his style in the track as of yet. I'll need to study his style in a bit more detail, I think.

    And as for Jun Senoue not talking about it...maybe he'll actually be allowed to talk about it now? Or has someone already asked him this year?
     
  18. Highly doubt that. If he (or Naofumi Hataya) worked on the game, I don't see why they wouldn't be credited, as they were Sega employees. And I think Nagao is just confusing his Sonic games, honestly. I asked him some questions a few years ago and almost every one of his answers was "maybe" and "I think", so you can't take everything he said as 100% truth. As for Senoue, he would just say Sega composed it, as he's not supposed to talk to the fans about the game. The fact that Sega still hasn't addressed that Sonic 3 remastered petition proves to me that any legal troubles surrounding the game haven't fully gone away yet, as there is really no other reason why they can't at least comment on it.
     
  19. muteKi

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    I wonder if, in fact, the 2-player mode is being thought of by some of these composers as a set of "bonus stages". They are, after all, a bit of an afterthought and certainly not connected to the main game's story in any way.

    EDIT: To be clear, this is coming from the same sort of reasoning where I consider, say, everything in Mario 3D World past World 8 to be "bonus stages" as well. It certainly doesn't help that "bonus stage" is a technical term in the game.
     
  20. Yuzoboy

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    No wonder I enjoyed the music for Smackdown 2 so much:) It has some pretty catchy rock music.