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Brad Buxer and the S3 Mid Boss Theme

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by LOst, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. PhotonSeek

    PhotonSeek

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    my breakdown:

    01. Title Screen (Composer: Howard Drossin, Arranger: Masaru Setsumaru)
    01a. Title Screen (Sonic 3) (Composer and Arranger: Tomonori Sawada)
    01b. Title Screen Beta (Composer: Howard Drossin, Arranger: Masaru Setsumaru)

    02. File Select (Composer and Arranger: Tatsuyuki Maeda)
    03. Angel Island Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: Jun Senoue)
    04. Angel Island Zone 2 (Composer and Arranger: Jun Senoue)
    05. Hydrocity Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: Tatsuyuki Maeda)
    06. Hydrocity Zone 2 (Composer: Tatsuyuki Maeda, Arranger: Masayuki Nagao)
    07. Marble Gardens Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: Miyoko Takaoka)
    08. Marble Gardens Zone 2 (Composer and Arranger: Miyoko Takaoka)

    09. Flying Battery Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: Tatsuyuki Maeda)
    10. Flying Battery Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: Tatsuyuki Maeda)
    11. Carnival Night Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: MJ Crew - unknown)
    12. Carnival Night Zone 2 (Composer and Arranger: MJ Crew - unknown)
    13. Ice Cap Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: Brad Buxer)
    14. Ice Cap Zone 2 (Composer and Arranger: Brad Buxer)
    15. Launch Base Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: MJ Crew - unknown)
    16. Launch Base Zone 2 (Composer and Arranger: MJ Crew - unknown)
    17. Mushroom Hill Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: Sachio Ogawa)
    18. Mushroom Hill Zone 2 (Composer and Arranger: Sachio Ogawa)
    19. Sandopolis Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: Tatsuyuki Maeda)
    20. Sandopolis Zone 2 (Composer and Arranger: Tatsuyuki Maeda)
    21. Lava Reef Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: Sachio Ogawa)
    22. Lava Reef Zone 2 (Composer: Sachio Ogawa, Arranger: Masayuki Nagao)
    23. Sky Sanctuary Zone (Composer and Arranger: Tatsuyuki Maeda)
    24. Death Egg Zone 1 (Composer and Arranger: Sachio Ogawa)
    25. Death Egg Zone 2 (Composer and Arranger: Sachio Ogawa)
    26. The Doomsday Zone (Composer and Arranger: Sachio Ogawa)
    27. Azure Lake (Composer and Arranger: Sachio Ogawa)
    28. Balloon Park (Composer and Arranger: Jun Senoue)
    29. Chrome Gadget (Composer and Arranger: SEGA - maybe Sachio Ogawa?)
    30. Desert Palace (Composer and Arranger: Tatsuyuki Maeda)
    31. Endless Mine (Composer and Arranger: Jun Senoue)
    32. Robotnik 1 (Composer and Arranger: Sachio Ogawa)
    32a. Miniboss (Sonic 3) (Composer and Arranger: MJ Crew - unknown)
    33. Robotnik 2 (Composer and Arranger: Sachio Ogawa)
    34. Final Boss (Composer and Arranger: Sachio Ogawa)
    35. Bonus Stage 1 (Pinball Machine) (Composer and Arranger: Jun Senoue)
    36. Bonus Stage 2 (Slot Machine) (Composer and Arranger: Jun Senoue)
    37. Bonus Stage 3 (Gumball Machine) (Composer and Arranger: Jun Senoue)
    38. Special Stage (Composer and Arranger: Yoshiaki Kashima)
    39. Knuckles' Theme (Composer: Howard Drossin, Arranger: Masaru Setsumaru)

    39a. Knuckles' Theme (Sonic 3) (Composer and Arranger: MJ Crew - unknown)
    40. Competition (Composer and Arranger: MJ Crew - unknown)
    41. Results (Vs. Mode) (Composer and Arranger: Jun Senoue)
    42. Act Clear (Composer and Arranger: Jun Senoue)
    43. Extra Life (Composer: Howard Drossin, Arranger: Masaru Setsumaru)
    43a. Extra Life (Sonic 3) (Composer: Tomonori Sawada, Arranger: Masaru Setsumaru)
    44. Continue (Sonic 3) (Composer and Arranger: Yukifumi Makino)
    45. Emerald (Composer and Arranger: Yukifumi Makino)
    45a. All Emeralds (Sonic 3) (Composer and Arranger: Yukifumi Makino)
    46. Invincibility (Composer: Howard Drossin, Arranger: Masaru Setsumaru)
    46a. Invincibility (Sonic 3) (Composer: Tomonori Sawada
    , Arranger: SEGA - unknown)
    47. Running out of Air! (Composer: Yukifumi Makino)
    48. Game Complete (Composer: Howard Drossin, Arranger: Masaru Setsumaru)
    48a. Game Complete (Sonic 3) (Composer: Tomonori Sawada, Arranger: Masaru Setsumaru)
    48b. Game Complete (Beta) (Composer: Howard Drossin, Arranger: Masaru Setsumaru)
    49. Game Over: (Composer and Arranger: Jun Senoue)
    50. Credits (Sonic 3 & Knuckles) (Composer: Various, Arranger: Masaru Setsumaru)

    50a. Credits (Sonic 3) (Composer and Arranger: Michael Jackson, Brad Buxer)
    50b. Credits (Sonic 3 LE) (Composer: Various, Arranger: Masaru Setsumaru)

    I really hope we get to the bottom of this. Got any suggestions? Tell me, and I'll tweak the breakdown.
     
  2. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    I'm curious how you reached some of these.
     
  3. PhotonSeek

    PhotonSeek

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    What ones in particular are you curious about? Tell me and I'll explain.
     
  4. DSE

    DSE

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    Ha, I was right to think Senoue composed this music we will heard until Sonic 2006.
     
  5. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    Mostly the ones that are in bold, and the ones with Maeda.
     
  6. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    And any that wasn't well known already.
     
  7. Act Clear is credited to J.Seno in 3D Blast for sure.
     
  8. JaredAFX

    JaredAFX

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    I believe that Act Clear was composed by Jun Senoue considering it's been used to the present day, but I am also curious as to how you came up with some of these.
     
  9. PhotonSeek

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    The ones in bold are confirmed. The ones I put down as Maeda have similarities to his works in Sonic 3D Blast and Golden Axe III. Also, he composed many level themes in the former game, so I believe he done many in S3K too.
     
  10. I think I recall a few more tracks being confirmed. And yes, I agree that Maeda must've done a lot of S3K tracks, in fact I made a comparison between his work in S3K and 3D Blast and managed to pinpoint which track is similar to which and put it on my list I made back in December (I believe it's on page 10 of this thread). I'll put an updated breakdown here, so you can compare them.

    Angel Island Zone Act 1 ------- SEGA (Tatsuyuki Maeda?)
    Angel Island Zone Act 2 ------- SEGA (Tatsuyuki Maeda?)
    Hydrocity Zone Act 1 ----------- SEGA (Tatsuyuki Maeda?)
    Hydrocity Zone Act 2 ----------- SEGA (Tatsuyuki Maeda?) & Masayuki Nagao
    Marble Garden Zone Act 1 ----- Miyoko Takaoka (confirmed)
    Marble Garden Zone Act 2 ----- Miyoko Takaoka (confirmed)
    Carnival Night Zone Act 1 ------ MJ crew
    Carnival Night Zone Act 2 ------ MJ crew
    Icecap Zone Act 1 --------------- Brad Buxer (reworked version of The Jetzons' Hard Times)
    Icecap Zone Act 2 --------------- Brad Buxer (reworked version of The Jetzons' Hard Times)
    Launch Base Zone Act 1 -------- MJ crew
    Launch Base Zone Act 2 -------- MJ crew
    Mushroom Hill Zone Act 1 ------ SEGA (Masanori Hikichi?)
    Mushroom Hill Zone Act 2 ------ SEGA (Masanori Hikichi?)
    Flying Battery Zone Act 1 ------ Tatsuyuki Maeda (later reworked into Volcano Valley Zone from Sonic 3D Blast)
    Flying Battery Zone Act 2 ------ Tatsuyuki Maeda (later reworked into Volcano Valley Zone from Sonic 3D Blast)
    Sandopolis Zone Act 1 --------- Tatsuyuki Maeda (later reworked into Gene Gadget Zone from Sonic 3D Blast)
    Sandopolis Zone Act 2 --------- Tatsuyuki Maeda (later reworked into Gene Gadget Zone from Sonic 3D Blast)
    Lava Reef Zone Act 1 ---------- SEGA (Tatsuyuki Maeda?)
    Lava Reef Zone Act 2 ---------- SEGA (Tatsuyuki Maeda?) & Masayuki Nagao
    Sky Sanctuary Zone ------------ SEGA (Sachio Ogawa?)
    Death Egg Zone Act 1 ---------- Tatsuyuki Maeda (later reworked into Rusty Ruin Zone from Sonic 3D Blast)
    Death Egg Zone Act 2 ---------- Tatsuyuki Maeda (later reworked into Rusty Ruin Zone from Sonic 3D Blast)
    The Doomsday Zone ------------ Tatsuyuki Maeda (later reworked into Diamond Dust Zone from Sonic 3D Blast)
    Act 1 Boss (S3) ------------------ MJ crew
    Act 1 Boss (SK) ------------------ SEGA (Sachio Ogawa?)
    Act 2 Boss ------------------------ Tatsuyuki Maeda & Masayuki Nagao (later reworked into Panic Puppet Zone Act 2 from Sonic 3D Blast)
    Final Boss ------------------------- Tatsuyuki Maeda (later reworked into Boss Battle 1 from Sonic 3D Blast)
    Special Stage: Blue Spheres ---- Yoshiaki Kashima (Milpo) (confirmed)
    Bonus Stage: Glowball Machine - Jun Senoue (later used for Special Stage from Sonic 3D Blast, Windy Hill and Pleasure Castle from Sonic Adventure)
    Bonus Stage: Slot Machine ------ Jun Senoue (later used for Special Stage from Sonic 3D Blast, Windy Hill and Pleasure Castle from Sonic Adventure)
    Bonus Stage: Gumball Machine - Jun Senoue (later used for Special Stage from Sonic 3D Blast, Windy Hill and Pleasure Castle from Sonic Adventure)
    Knuckles' Theme (S3) ----------- MJ crew
    Knuckles' Theme (SK) ----------- Howard Drossin & Masaru Setsumaru (confirmed)
    Azure Lake Zone ----------------- SEGA (Sachio Ogawa?)
    Balloon Park Zone --------------- Jun Senoue (later used for Special Stage from Sonic 3D Blast, Windy Hill and Pleasure Castle from Sonic Adventure)
    Chrome Gadget Zone ----------- SEGA (Tatsuyuki Maeda?)
    Desert Palace Zone ------------- SEGA (Tatsuyuki Maeda?)
    Endless Mine Zone -------------- Jun Senoue (later reworked into City Escape from Sonic Adventure 2)
    Title Screen (S3) ---------------- Tomonori Sawada (confirmed)
    Title Screen (SK) ---------------- Howard Drossin & Masaru Setsumaru (confirmed)
    Staff Roll (S3) ------------------- Brad Buxer (confirmed)
    Staff Roll (SK) ------------------- Masaru Setsumaru (confirmed)
    Staff Roll (S3K) ----------------- Masaru Setsumaru (confirmed)
    Game Over ---------------------- Jun Senoue (confirmed)
    Continue? ------------------------ Jun Senoue (confirmed)
    Act Clear ------------------------- Jun Senoue (confirmed)
    1-Up (S3) ------------------------ Tomonori Sawada & Masaru Setsumaru (confirmed)
    1-Up (SK) ------------------------ Howard Drossin & Masaru Setsumaru (confirmed)
    Invincibility (S3) ---------------- Tomonori Sawada & Masayuki Nagao (confirmed)
    Invincibility (SK) ---------------- Howard Drossin & Masaru Setsumaru (confirmed)
    Competition --------------------- MJ crew
    Data Select Screen ------------- SEGA (Tatsuyuki Maeda?)
    Drowning ------------------------ Yukifumi Makino (confirmed)
    Chaos Emerald ----------------- Yukifumi Makino (confirmed)
    All Clear (S3) ------------------- Tomonori Sawada & Masaru Setsumaru (confirmed)
    All Clear (SK) ------------------- Howard Drossin & Masaru Setsumaru (confirmed)
     
  11. PhotonSeek

    PhotonSeek

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    Sawada told me in a Soundcloud message he only composed the S3 title screen music. Setsumaru was only involved with arranging the Sonic Jam version of "Data Select", I believe.

    Seriously, trying to work out some of the composers of each track can be awkward. For example, "Final Boss" is similar to S3D's "Boss Battle 1" by Maeda while it is also similar to Super Hang-On's "Hard Road" by Ogawa.
     
  12. Did he? Good to know. That means he did only the Sonic 3 title screen, invincibility, 1-Up and All Clear.
    I've just listened to Hard Road. I guess it sounds similar though it's kinda harder for me to hear.
     
  13. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    You'll have to walk me through how you came to these conclusions other than the man himself straight up saying it. The only identifiable trait I got from his compositions is they tend to run pretty long. That, and I can't hear how those songs were reworked into those 3D Blast ones.

    Also, it would not surprise me in the slightest if the ones you have labeled "MJ Crew" were Bobby Brooks' tracks.
     
  14. Like I said, I compared the selected S3 tracks to Maeda's work on 3D Blast by their structure, rhythm, tempo, bassline and such. I wouldn't be surprised if Maeda simply took his S3 tracks and tweaked them enough for 3D Blast so nobody would tell the difference.

    How can you be sure that Bobby Brooks did those tracks?
     
  15. rata

    rata

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    So, Flying Battery is Volcano Valley. Sorry, I don't buy that.
    Also, aren't the Drowning and Emerald tunes the same from Sonic 1? Isn't Masato the composer then? Or did Yukifumi composed them for Sonic 1?
     
  16. What significance does "confirmed" have without an explanation of why it is confirmed?

    I have seen several fan-made lists like this, but without a comprehensive set of evidence alongside it (without the need to search or dig through threads), they have no merit besides the amateur fun of trying to piece together a mystery.

    Here are examples of what I mean by evidence:

    • the Ice Cap-Hard Times connection via Brad Buxer
    • Brad Buxer's interview(s) concerning Stranger in Moscow and the Sonic 3 credits
    • Ben2k9's observation of a significant riff shared between Jam and Carnival Night
    • the music credits found in the Sonic 3D Blast ROM
    I suppose these fall into three categories: public declaration, concrete musical matches, and official documentation. I anticipate a fourth: private correspondence.

    I believe that information we get in this way can be useful if it comes with some indication of authenticity, including screenshots and direct quotes, but unlike the others there is always the potential for fake info, so it cannot be held to the same standard without further corroboration. (Note that in no way am I implying this toward Drdevilfx.)

    Similarities in style only may be reasonable heuristics to warrant further investigation, but are not evidence in their own right. Remember how Ice Cap Zone was once considered to be Smooth Criminal?

    Ideally, I envision this information in the form of an entry on the Retro wiki, in the same vein as the Sonic 3 & Knuckles chronology and endings page. However, such an article may not be encyclopedic to the wiki's standards, and I fear it would get defaced with baseless speculation and grasping at straws.

    I would help with this hypothetical wiki page, but I would like feedback from wiki veterans before getting my feet wet.
     
  17. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Remember how a bunch of us called bullshit on that and said that Marble Zone is just as close to Smooth Criminal?
     
  18. nineko

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    This guy seems to like to make music claims without references, see http://www.smspower.org/forums/post89088#89088. This doesn't mean they can't be right, but a source would be appreciated, otherwise I might just say that ICZ is ARZ's bad future.
     
  19. redhotsonic

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    I got the impression that Howard Drossin did all the music for Sonic and Knuckles (not involving S3). Only because at the end of S3, he isn't mentioned, but at the end of Sonic and Knuckles, the only composer in the credits is Howard Drossin (none of the otehrs are), then in S3K, he's been added with the other 6-7 composers.

    Also, even though ICZ is proven to be Hard Times be the Jetzons, I thought a part of smooth criminal is in it, and you could also hear MJ shouting "Hey" in it (you can't hear him in Act 2 though).


    These are my impressions though, not facts. Can someone clear my mind?
     
  20. It's been already said that Hard Times was actually used as a basis for not only Ice Cap but Smooth Criminal and Who Is It? and possibly other MJ songs as well.

    As for Howard Drossin - yes, he did music for the S&K part only, while the MJ crew worked only on the Sonic 3 part. The majority of the songs are actually done by the Sega Sound Team with a little help from Cube Corp. (who are present on both).