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Best format for a 3D Sonic game?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Aerosol, Mar 4, 2011.

Which 3D Sonic game came closest to what is ideal for you in a Sonic game?

  1. Sonic Jam

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  2. Sonic R

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  3. Sonic Adventure/Adventure 2/Heroes etc

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  4. Sonic Unleashed/Colors

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  1. Retroman

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    I'd say that a camera system that follows Sonic and has a rectile like Grand Theft Auto 4 that you move the character and whatever direction the rectile is positioned, the head would follow so you would see what Sonic sees and it will greatly enhance visibility and flow with the levels, fixing the issues that has greatly affected later 3D sonic games.

    Sonic Adventure was great because it gave you freedom to explore and see things, so that is a big point that needs to be reviewed and expanded upon. Mainly because it's a game that nearly nails presentation except the slightly complicated storyline. (But stories like Robotnik = evil = finds thing = releases beast = beast goes against him = epic zomg boss battle shouldn't be followed)

    Experimentations must be made for a Sonic game that has a easy, but awesome feel to it. Systems should be revised and considered if they want to improve the Sonic franchise. I would like sonic to have:

    1. A flexible, fluid animation system
    2. A more classic/adventure-esque 3D model with a short but sweet art design
    3. A slope detection animation
    4. A hang on ledges system when you approach a seperated platform so you can reach to grab and climb it (Improved from Sonic Adventure to Adventure 2).
    5. A progressive, simple storyline.
    6. 3D Super Peel-out with cartoon-style smoke and a slight blur under the shoes (like car smoke) would be awesome, as-well as charging up spindash making a return.
    7. Simple storyline where Robotnik will be the villian ala Sonic Colors

    Multiplayer should be done, and custom characters be made to race, trade chao, battle, racing. It should support up to 32 players and you have a vast ammount of modes to choose from and you can access online Sega websites for chao's and sync to 3DS etc.

    -An Unlocks, score-based system that improves abilities.
    -The old TV Monitor from S1+2+3&K
    -Classic remastered levels (unlockable) in 3D and a few other things should be implemented
    -Classic Pinball-like Physics implanted (like jumping from one robot to another will make sonic jump higher)
    -Gameplay/Level design from Sonic Colours/Unleashed
    -Graphics to be lushious, nostalgic, pretty, fantasy-cartoon like (Twilight Princess from Legend of Zelda maybe)
    -Sonic using his fists against robots

    I want more emotions from the Sonic characters (like humour, the ear drop emotion you see in animations etc), like in Sonic Colours. See the pokemon anime series, It strikes that pretty well when there's a villian like Team Rocket who aim to steal pokemon and capture pikachu, but time and time they fail humourously.

    Music would have to be retro, 80's like and Crush-40 ish (Rock, Orchestra, Piano Synth). But styles of music should be expanded and new styles should be tried.

    I'd like to dream what would happen if Sonic was taken over by nintendo. It would be interesting though, oh and please no 12 characters fit in a game like 06 plz.
     
  2. Ritz

    Ritz

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    Voted Sonic Jam on principle before I even realized what the thread was about. Wasn't much of a game, but it could've been something really cool, I guess!

    <!--quoteo(post=565395:date=Mar 4 2011, 03:48 PM:name=jasonchrist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jasonchrist @ Mar 4 2011, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=565395">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, for my perfect 3D Sonic. I say combine Sonic's SA1 gameplay with Colors look, feel, music and atmosphere and everything else. Oh, and the rock music with silly faggots singing has to go because it really is wank! So far that's Colors biggest downfall for me, that fuck-awful theme song!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Nailed it.
     
  3. LockOnTommy11

    LockOnTommy11

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    I'd have to say that Sonic Adventure 2 had perfect physics and an amazing game engine. Sonic Heroes was basically the same, except that as the speed character accelerated a tiny bit quicker. I don't understand how someone said that Heroes felt like the chars were on ice, it's the opposite- they stop quicker and can turn a bit more sharply. Shadow The Hedgehog had 'ice', that was awful sometimes. Colours is the closest to A2/Heroes we've gotten since those games in terms of physics. It's fantasy setting also fits in with the Sonic world perfectly. You can totally imagine that it's set in the same world as the other 3D games and the classics, unlike 2006 and Shadow, where I could just not believe that it was set on the same planet as GHZ, Oil Ocean, Angel Island, Flickies Island or for example, Music Plant.

    I actually had hoped that when SEGA got back on track, they'd expand this Black Alien thing more, mix it in with some classic scenery, have the Death Egg fire at them and destory them- anything to link the games, because it just feels like another world.
     
  4. Ross-Irving

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    I don't know why people like Sonic Adventure's gameplay so much. Even if you're talking about just Sonic/Tails related gameplay, it honestly doesn't have a noticeable level of depth up from Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors 3d segments. Adventure certainly didn't do anything to make it feel like an actual action based experience. I'm not seeing how a player has more freedom because they can run off the side of the level and accomplish nothing than invisible barriers or walls guiding you. I like the idea Unleashed brought to the table of flipping the gameplay back and forth from 2D to 3D because I feel that with some gameplay scenarios and algorithms, 2D just works better. For example, loops! That doesn't excuse the 3D segments, they still have a long way to go. The nice thing to do here is explain what exactly could make 3D segments better, but I'm hard-pressed to come up with anything substantial as I'm still chewing on 2D Sonic level design.

    Basically, I'll go with Sonic Unleashed's daytime level gameplay and level design, the stages being rethought in Colors thanks to the Wisp powers can fuck off.
     
  5. Indigo Rush

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    I figured that it would be best to combine the speeds of Sonic Adventure with the speeds of Unleashed (or Colors)... the thing with Adventure is that it was easier to turn Sonic at sharper angles, which is something that the latest 3D Sonic games have been lacking. It's difficult to platform carefully with the kind of acceleration rate that Unleashed has, but that sort of control was necessary to reach some pretty thrilling and fun speeds. Turning is harder in Unleashed with running fast because, well, if the sensitivity of the analog stick was increased to that of what it is in most 360-degree minded platformers, you're going to overshoot your angles at insane speeds, running into everything. There has to be some sort of marriage between the styles, without sacrificing the best of both.

    I proposed on another forum that as Sonic's speed increases, his turning radius decreases, effectively blurring the lines between the best of Adventure with the best of Unleashed. I would take about 3 seconds consistently pushing the analog stick in one particular direction to reach a speed where control starts to stiffen (not so much that you can't turn from side-to-side, and once you reach that level of speed, for those who want this move, you would be able to boost, stiffening controls even more, but giving you that rush of speed that everyone likes now and then. The quickstep and drift would then be necessary for those levels of speed.
    Standing still or when travelling at a moderate speed will exchange the boost for a regular attack, say, the somersault or something melee-specific. This keeps players from spamming the boost button and reaching your top speed instantaneously; you gotta work to get that speed!


    Also, replacing the slide maneuver with the rolling mechanics is a must. The roll can do everything the slide can do (attack + way to get through tight spaces) and then some. (spinball physics, etc)

    I had more ideas, but I don't want to turn this into a wishlist. So, yeah, that's what I thought would work, at the base of it all, anyway.
     
  6. MegaDash

    MegaDash

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    <!--quoteo(post=565553:date=Mar 5 2011, 06:23 AM:name=Ross-Irving)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ross-Irving @ Mar 5 2011, 06:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=565553">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know why people like Sonic Adventure's gameplay so much. Even if you're talking about just Sonic/Tails related gameplay, it honestly doesn't have a noticeable level of depth up from Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors 3d segments.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm not sure what you mean by level of depth. Could you clarify?

    <!--quoteo(post=565553:date=Mar 5 2011, 06:23 AM:name=Ross-Irving)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ross-Irving @ Mar 5 2011, 06:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=565553">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adventure certainly didn't do anything to make it feel like an actual action based experience. I'm not seeing how a player has more freedom because they can run off the side of the level and accomplish nothing than invisible barriers or walls guiding you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Leaving out the Adventure Fields for a moment, there were simply more instances in the Action stages that had more lateral depth (or spread) that made the levels feel much less like a linear race track and much more like a 3D adventure game. This was a factor of the way the camera behaved and the way the levels were designed. That was part of what contributed to the player's sense of freedom. It's something that I found lacking in Heroes because the stage designs were attempting to be like a 2D Genesis Sonic game when it simply wasn't.

    The other contributing factor to the sense of freedom was the degree of control a player had when navigating the stages at an easily adjustable pace. This control, however, does become jittery during some of the "running track" sections, like in Windy Valley after you break the false wall with a spindash and go running down the track. Here, the camera underwent a smooth but dramatic behind-the-player POV, but having Sonic turn while going so fast caused him to veer in very sharp, awkward angles, causing the zig-zag. I never considered this a huge problem in-game, but it's something that Unleashed and Colors handled better at the sacrifice of more player control and more open, less linear stages.

    Lastly, I really wouldn't characterize the invisible barriers as guiding so much as prohibiting. It's another symptom of relying on a too-linear level design, and while there were defined action/speed transitions in SA1 that marked where you couldn't backtrack (like Speed Highway's running down the building section or Metal Harbour's rocket sequence), they were at least much more interesting and natural than an arbitrary invisible force field that denied your desire to backtrack and explore a bit.

    <!--quoteo(post=565553:date=Mar 5 2011, 06:23 AM:name=Ross-Irving)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ross-Irving @ Mar 5 2011, 06:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=565553">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the idea Unleashed brought to the table of flipping the gameplay back and forth from 2D to 3D because I feel that with some gameplay scenarios and algorithms, 2D just works better. For example, loops! That doesn't excuse the 3D segments, they still have a long way to go. The nice thing to do here is explain what exactly could make 3D segments better, but I'm hard-pressed to come up with anything substantial as I'm still chewing on 2D Sonic level design.

    Basically, I'll go with Sonic Unleashed's daytime level gameplay and level design, the stages being rethought in Colors thanks to the Wisp powers can fuck off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'd ask for either the reverse or just something like SA1's stages graced with more thrilling, but more player-controlled Unleashed-style speed sections. Other than that, I agree that certain things worked better in 2D than 3D, and that that's no excuse for bad 3D design.
     
  7. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    Well this is my poll, but lemme throw my opinion out there anyway.

    I've always thought that a merger between Sonic Adventure and Sonic Unleashed would involve Sonic Adventure controls and speeds normally, but pulling/pressing a boost button would enable non-boost Sonic Unleashed speeds. To that end, I voted Sonic Adventure, since my ideal game would be most like it, with Sonic Unleashed elements as a feature of a predominantly Sonic Adventure styled game.
     
  8. Overbound

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    My ideal 3D Sonic game (since that seems to be the way this thread is moving) would actually be a consistent with the 2D Sonic games. Spin Dash, Rolling Physics, and Insta Shield. The spin dash would be cool for flying into pin ball physics, and the physics would be there to back in up, and we already know the insta-shield works. After all what good 3D platformer doesn't have an attack move that widens his attack radius SMG Star Spin, Crash's spin attack, etc.
     
  9. SteelBrush

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    The if they did use the insta-shield, it would remove the need for the fucking awful homing attack. Attack radius would be increased, so it would remove the need for total accuracy.
     
  10. I liked the homing attack in SA2, they should also bring back that "vending-machine-outside-the-super-market-bouncy-ball" move that you learn in the Pyramid level in SA2
     
  11. trakker

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    For 3d 3d controls for Sonic, Sonic R (with a couple of refinements) is by far the best, with the turning and banking mechanic, you could thread the character through the eye of a needle at speed, the'd just need to make it abit easyer to perform for the casual people.

    Its even better with modern controls, because we have pressure sensitive triggers, so we could bank light or hard, depending on the corner, none of this asshat drifting crap.
     
  12. DigitalDuck

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    Unleashed/Colours formula all the way. It's more-or-less perfect in my opinion - there's only a few things I'd change:

    - Slide --> Roll.
    - Crouch + Jump = Spindash.
    - No more run in a straight line Interceptor shit.

    That's pretty much it. Adventure was too slow, too forced, and too linear for me, Sonic Jam didn't really have any gameplay, and I haven't played Sonic R enough to judge.
     
  13. Namo

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    <!--quoteo(post=566534:date=Mar 8 2011, 05:40 AM:name=DigitalDuck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DigitalDuck @ Mar 8 2011, 05:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=566534">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unleashed/Colours formula all the way. It's more-or-less perfect in my opinion - there's only a few things I'd change:

    - Slide --> Roll.
    - Crouch + Jump = Spindash.
    - No more run in a straight line Interceptor shit.

    That's pretty much it. Adventure was too slow, too forced, and too linear for me, Sonic Jam didn't really have any gameplay, and I haven't played Sonic R enough to judge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Crouch and jump would replace the boost button, right? Sounds good.

    I'd definitely keep drifting the way it is, though. I love the drifting. Although I'd definitely make it just a smidge tighter.

    Only changes I'd make is I'd add in adventure fields similar to Unleashed - a town area where your speed is limited, and a hub area for choosing levels. For the levels themselves, a combination of (improved) Adventure-style levels, mixed in with the 2.5D in Colors, with some of the straight-shot super-fast areas. It'd be like what some of the levels in Sonic Colors did, but adding in more free-form areas as seen in Adventure and Adventure 2. An example level would be: Straight-shot to Adventure-style to 2.5D.

    DigitalDuck's changes along with my suggestions would be pretty damn good, as far as I see it.
     
  14. TmEE

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  15. I'd say they need to build upon the groundwork that colours set down with some better level design.

    If anything as far as Sonic Adventure/Adventure 2/2006 had the idea half-right (glitches aside), in that the levels could be explored and had multiple paths to completion.
    I'd say in visual style the levels should look as much like the first 3 levels of Heroes / the classics / hell, Sonic Riders (Sonic is Sci-Fi Fantasy right?) as they can, and look as little like Shadow the Hedgehog as possible.

    I'm happy the enemy robots life bars and only losing 10 rings a hit are gone. Those were stupid ideas, and shouldn't return.

    Colours and Unleashed don't play very-alike at all, which is what confuses me when people say they do.

    Colours had almost context sensitive drifting and sidestepping, but Sonic moved properly, and not like a sports car/bag of cement. By that I mean that in Sonic Unleashed if you press left or right while in stages, Sonic strafes, he doesn't turn. It feels less like you're controlling a character, and more like you're controlling a vehicle. It seems like SEGA restricted Sonic's movements in that game because they were scared we'd break their level design. Thankfully in colours, you can make Sonic run in a circle (much more important than it sounds, with freedom of movement being important to gameplay and all that)

    I think if they perfected the level design, keeping the overall feel of colours/the classics and did the controls something like this, we'd have another decent 3D title. For the purposes of this post, I'll be using the DualShock buttons, but it should be easy to understand what I mean.

    Control Stick: Full 360 Degree Movement (like Colours)
    X; Jump / Homing Attack
    Triangle; Slide
    Circle; Spindash
    Square; Boost
    L1 - Quick-Step Left
    R1 - Quick-Step Right
    R2 - Drift

    Ever since Sonic Heroes, I've thought that SEGA didn't really pay attention to how many buttons is on the average pad, I mean can you imagine how much more complex gameplay in heroes could have been if all 3 characters had had a full control pad and L + R were used to switch character?

    As far as overall tone of the games go, I'd like to see something like Colours, which was hilarious. Basically I want my Sonic to have the sort of humor Ratchet and Clank does.
     
  16. Hodgy

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    im pretty sure sonic can run in a circle in unleashed :)
     
  17. <!--quoteo(post=566562:date=Mar 8 2011, 02:11 PM:name=Hodgy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hodgy @ Mar 8 2011, 02:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=566562">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->im pretty sure sonic can run in a circle in unleashed :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Maybe the 360 version. I never checked. He can't on the wii, though.
     
  18. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

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    <!--quoteo(post=566540:date=Mar 8 2011, 03:08 AM:name=Namo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namo @ Mar 8 2011, 03:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=566540">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd definitely keep drifting the way it is, though. I love the drifting. Although I'd definitely make it just a smidge tighter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I love drifting too. My only opinion would be to map drifting to the second analog stick (on 360/PS3) instead of a button combined with the moving analog stick. I always thought this would feel more natural.
     
  19. Ross-Irving

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    <!--quoteo(post=566561:date=Mar 8 2011, 08:03 AM:name=Limey Otoko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Limey Otoko @ Mar 8 2011, 08:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=566561">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Control Stick: Full 360 Degree Movement (like Colours)
    X; Jump / Homing Attack
    Triangle; Slide
    Circle; Spindash
    Square; Boost
    L1 - Quick-Step Left
    R1 - Quick-Step Right
    R2 - Drift<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Why do you have the spindash and the slide? In Sonic 3D Blast, if you held any of the buttons when running, you'd roll along the ground and be able to attack that way. In Unleashed's case, the roll would help you be small enough to get through those low gaps. The slide move is the only move I see as useless. If you guys are going to get on level design, it would be awesome if you'd said something other than make it better. Even then, some users actually have explained, very specifically, what makes the level designs interesting and how they work. I'm pretty sure we've even had threads where this poll led to the discussion going on now. So why are we doing this?

    This is now a "how to fix Sonic thread" <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->I[/COLOR]<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->N[/COLOR]<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->C[/COLOR]<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->O[/COLOR]<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->G[/COLOR]<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->N[/COLOR]<!--coloro:#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF"><!--/coloro-->I[/COLOR]<!--coloro:#483D8B--><span style="color:#483D8B"><!--/coloro-->T[/COLOR]<!--coloro:#4B0082--><span style="color:#4B0082"><!--/coloro-->O[/COLOR].
     
  20. OSM

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    Undecided, but I really did enjoy Colors. If they polish it up even further then I think we'll have a winner. They just need to put more emphasis on the spin dash/rolling in the levels. They have the platforming down perfectly, so I'm not worried about that.
     
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