Bashing Sonic Mania

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Chaos Rush, Jul 26, 2020.

  1. Chaos Rush

    Chaos Rush

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    Obviously Sonic Mania is the worst video game of all time and is the worst thing to ever happen to the Sonic franchise.

    let’s bash it

    here’s my gripes:
    • Knuckles is pink wtf he’s supposed to be red. Even his special stage model is pink like wutttt
    • Sonic is supposed to be blue not light blue oh wait that’s because SEGA wants “modern classic Sonic” to consistently be light blue because they did that in Generations or something
    • there’s this Phantom Infinity Stone thing that’s unneeded I mean like we already have the Chaos Emeralds and the Super Emeralds, obviously the next step is the long awaited Hyper Emeralds
    • what’s with the ending? Sonic goes into a portal? And then in Encore Mode immediately pops out? Wonder what he did in that portal. I guess he just went to another Special Stage or something

    On a more serious note:
    • the art style of the new levels feels a little off from the classic levels. I think it’s a combination of the usage of color contrast and also the limited palette of the MD (Yes I know Mania doesn’t limit itself to MD’s palette but the art design of the classic levels are still influenced by the MD palette limitations by nature of being edited MD art assets). That’s not to say the new levels look bad - they look great and I would totally love to see a Mania sequel with all new levels
    • Mighty and Ray are cool but would’ve preferred classic Amy with Sadv1 moveset (except maybe let her do a ball jump). She should also be able to use Sonic’s shield moves
    • Unlike S3&K, Mania doesn’t seem to be consistent with what boss themes go with what, and instead seems to use boss themes to match the fight itself, such as Studiopolis Act 2 having its own unique remix, Hydrocity Act 1 using the miniboss theme despite being Eggman (also why does Eggman appear as the Act 1 boss sometimes). At least the HBH themes are consistent. But I can kinda forgive this since it needed to fit in the HBH bosses and they are more than the “Act 1 miniboss machines” from S3&K. I guess I would just prefer if Eggman had a consistent theme like in other games.
    • Super Emeralds would’ve been perfect for Encore Mode

    Disclaimer: criticism & nitpicks =/= “I hate this game”. In all honesty I think Sonic Mania is the second best 2D platformer of all time, only behind S3&K.
     
  2. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    Apparently they did want to put the Super Emeralds in the game, but Iizuka shot them down.

    The overall story wonkiness I can forgive because they had to shoehorn old and new levels together when they weren't before. But that Hydrocity->Mirage Saloon transition still sucks. They should've had the camera follow Sonic out of the bowl, have Tails swoop in with the Tornado (have him stay in the bowl if playing Sonic & Tails to facilitate the scene), and fly off.

    I really wish & Knuckles mode let you jump on Knuckles back while he's climbing/gliding. That would make it more worth playing.

    ...that's all I got. I fucking love this game.
     
  3. Mana

    Mana

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    Oil Ocean isn't very fun and the gimmick where you lose rings if you don't clear the smoke out in the second act is annoying. Feel like it only gotten added so we could finally light the level on fire with the flame shield...

    But that's nothing in a game full of great like this. Wish the ending didn't tie to Forces I guess?
     
  4. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    Uff, I'm tired for doing this, I've already said a lot of times my gripes with this game. Yet, there's something I think I've never mentioned and good enough for this thread: the lotto gimmick in studiopolis, has you trapped for a while asking you to actually take part on it somehow, to rarely give you anything interesting and with little to no chance of retrying immediately if you ever wanted.
     
  5. Palas

    Palas

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    The level progression is near non-existent. I believe it's an even worse case than Sonic 2 because there's a complete disconnect between acts of a single stage. I like both acts of Press Garden, but they might as well be two completely different stages. It's not that important to Mania, in that it knows exactly what it's there for, and it surprises you every new stage with the fact that it simply exists and is a gift from the Gods that no Sonic fan would dream of happening years ago.

    But, exactly because it knows what it is, there are a few... weird things about it. Here is a quote from an earlier post I wrote:

    Also I will never forgive Mania for not going all in with the fire shield burning bridges. It should burn ALL wood and completely make you rethink how you go through the stage instead of serving a few set pieces.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
  6. Vanishing Vision

    Vanishing Vision

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    Forcing time attack as the only competitive option and continuing to neglect the score attack potential of classic Sonic. Mania would've been the perfect opportunity to balance the scoring system of classic Sonic, and they did add something new with the Cool Bonus, but all the other problems like the useless time bonus (now even worse because the sheer size of the zones means you can just grab 500+ rings, making any possible 30 second clears worthless) still remain, and best scores are never kept anywhere, not even locally.

    Sonic 4 of all games actually fixed the classic Sonic scoring system by dramatically re-balancing the time bonus. If Mania had 4's system (and kept best records) it would be the absolute best Sonic game by a long shot.
     
  7. kyasarintsu

    kyasarintsu

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    This has become my favorite "classic" game but I do have some problems with it:
    • The story is barely communicated, with random Egg Robos showing up for no apparent reason and a total-nonsense Super Sonic fight. The goofy miniboss and Heavies themes always deflate any tension. So many cutscenes consist of standing around like idiots and just letting the Ruby do its thing. Of course, I'm not happy of what that they pulled in the true ending. Encore's story feels even more contrived than 3&K's "a random Egg Robo leads you on a chase through the same zones as before with the Master Emerald inexplicably stolen again". I don't mind that zones aren't in any particular order, but having a big chaotic map like World of Light does, which shows everything mashed together, would have been really cool. It could have just been a visual indicator of progress, like the 8-bit Sonic 1's island map.
    • Some levels can be a bit too automated, with secrets and stuff just being a matter of knowing to stop dead in your tracks. There are thankfully a lot of better-designed versions, such as that ramp in Studiopolis that sends you into the air, requiring you to recognize and bounce on those lantern guys.
    • Flying Battery is a tiny bit too long. Press Garden 2 and Stardust Speedway 2 feel too cluttered and short. Mirage Saloon 1's plane segment is boring; the level would've been way cooler if you were hopping from train to train. In general I'd say the newer zones (minus Titanic Monarch, which I actually love) are the worst of the bunch. I suppose it's easy for the returning zones to be better when they had solid blueprints that are easy to look at and improve.
    • The bosses suck. I already hated that 3 bloated the experience with a boss at the end of the first act and I wasn't happy that that idea returned here, especially with how annoying the bosses are in this game. I just turn super or mindlessly damage boost through these stupid things.
    • The DLC pack might have been the most disappointing DLC ever. Ray's some nice dumb fun but Mighty feels like trash to use (would rather have had Amy). Most of the modified level designs and palettes aren't very interesting, and I don't think that the character swapping is an engaging mechanic. At least Encore gave us some new special stages and replaced the plane segment with something better.
    These complaints probably sound harsher than they are. I love this game a lot and it is indeed my favorite, but there are of course always things that could be better.
     
  8. Frostav

    Frostav

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    Oil Ocean, Lava Reef, and Flying Battery are just.....bleeeeegh. Something about this trio just absolutely bores me to death.
     
  9. Myles_Zadok

    Myles_Zadok

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    I love Ray, but I have to agree with you, Mighty feels kinda tacked on. The ground pound move is only really useful for a handful of bosses and some alternate paths specifically created for the move. But I do think it was cool that they brought both Ray and Mighty back since they hadn't been playable in a game this century before Mania Plus.

    I go back and forth over whether I like Mania or 3&K more, but the thing that 3&K will always have over Mania is the story. The story in 3&K motivates me to keep playing, especially towards the end. The rush of fighting Knuckles, Eggman stealing the Master Emerald, racing through a crumbling Sky Sanctuary, and jumping on to the Death Egg, hearing that music start, that motivates me to storm through the fortress and take back the Master Emerald. Nothing really motivates me to play through the next stage in Mania unless I just love the zone already (which, I mean, I usually do, but still). That's something I would like a brand new classic game to have, is a proper story, not just a rehash of old locales and characters, but new ones to further the series' lore (in the classic dimension, anyway).
     
  10. OrtengeSoda

    OrtengeSoda

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    * The final boss just sucks, not very fun and pretty simple to beat once you know what to do. OOZ Act 1 boss is also downright awful.
    * Way too many returning stages.
    * Some of the zones have very lopsided lengths, where the first act will double the length of the second (Mirage Saloon and Press Garden). The second acts of those two zones are some of my favorites in the game so having them be so short is a shame.
    * The Train Sequence in Mirage Saloon Zone should have been the entire stage, it's a neat idea but it lasts like 30 seconds.
    * Some of the Zone transitions are pretty lame with many resorting to "Le Phantom Ruby". Although the new transitions added in Plus are much more in line with what I wanted.
    * The "Third Party" nature of the Hard Boiled Heavys is not well showcased at all except for the super sonic boss.
    * Titanic Monarch is on Little Planet but isnt an alliteration (minor nitpick that bothers me)
    * The Encore palettes just suck, it makes everything so grey and brown.
    * The base-game special stages are way too easy (except for Special Stage 7 which is a nightmare)

    Still adore this game regardless, easily in the top 3 of the series.
     
  11. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    I have one complaint, and one complaint only: I want to play Mania, but it doesn't run on XP.
     
  12. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    I think you can generally derive the story from what's going on in Mania so I'm not really upset about that. I do agree that some stuff is simply not explained like the Titanic Monarch or what happened to the Hard Boiled Heavies, but the progression from zone to zone seems to make sense. A lot of this game takes place on Westside Island (Chemical Plant, Studiopolis, Flying Battery, Press Garden, Mirage Saloon, & Oil Ocean) with the Ruby sending Sonic & Co. to South Island once, Chemical Plant once, and Little Planet (Past) once before Eggman flings you back to Angel Island. From there, you pretty much work yourself back to Little Planet on your own. I will admit that storywise the transition from Oil Ocean to Lava Reef makes little sense since you just flew from Angel Island, but that's how I interpreted it.

    See, that baffles me as I can't control Ray to save my life, while Mighty has that extra layer of protection against spikes and projectiles. The character swapping mechanic isn't all that appealing to me either since by the end of the game i'm stuck with a character I don't want with little chance to get more back (In my case it was Ray in Lava Reef...).

    Honestly, my biggest gripe is that stupid spider boss. It has to be one of the most challenging bosses in the game and feels a little unfair with how you're supposed to damage it.
     
  13. Dissent

    Dissent

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    Ray makes the game satisfying yet easy once you learn how to control and abuse him. Flying Battery definitely goes on too long and doesn't have enough interesting new ideas. The game has a bit of a lull in the middle and is where my runs generally stop.
     
  14. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    The major flaw in Mania is that the game is tied with Forces.
     
  15. Wildcat

    Wildcat

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    I think it could have been bigger. Like a really epic classic adventure with more new and old stages. I thought being a tribute to the Genesis era they would have gone all out. I guess that would have ruined any sequels though.

    Super Sonic boss fight is not really exciting. Kind of like just keep going til you get it.
     
  16. kyasarintsu

    kyasarintsu

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    I don't really care about the sporadic zone order, as strange as it might sound. I always just took it as "the Ruby's throwing a whole bunch of places together" and just accepted the zones as they came.
    It's the other details, like the Heavies as a "third party", the random Heavy King return in the bonus boss, and what Titanic Monarch is even meant to be. Maybe I'm just inattentive but I needed it to be outright stated to me that I'm climbing and going aboard some giant robot that I was expecting to be the final boss.

    Mighty's shield is alright but I would have greatly preferred it not to have the recoil off enemies and projectiles and just give me invulnerability frames or something, letting me keep my speed. At some points, such as Metal Sonic's final phase, the current behavior can be outright disadvantageous. I don't like his slam move because it's ridiculously situational. If it didn't have that minor bounce I could at least feel good using it on a quarter pipe to gain speed or something. I don't remember ever finding a single reason to use it when it wasn't a shortcut that mandated it.
    I love Ray, though. He plays like a really ridiculous version of Super Mario World's cape and I feel clever for using it to gain height in even the most cramped areas. His sprites look incredibly strange to me, though.
     
  17. Laura

    Laura

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    I agree with @Palas that the two acts of Press Garden feel like completely different stages. I thought it was jarring the first time I played it and I wish the first act was more like the second.

    I also think there's a problem with level progression. It feels like a greatest hits album rather than a concept album is the way I would put it.

    The bosses, especially the mini-bosses, are a bit too elaborate for their own good. There's a lot of waiting around when I liked aggressively demolishing them quickly in the classics.

    But the game's main problem for me is that it really fails at the end. Titanic Monarch is a great concept but it's really badly communicated. I didn't even know I was outside it in Act 1 and then inside in Act 2 until months after finishing. The final boss is very weak, the Egg Reverie is kind of fun but also cumbersome to control and I dont really care that much because of how little Heavy King has been in the game. The ending is also very lacklustre.

    It's a real shame, because I think the other Sonic games absolutely nail the ending. Sonic CD has a rubbish final boss, but at least it has that cool ending cinematic.

    I also think the Encore Mode is a snore fest. Would have rather had one entirely new zone. I know Brad Flick was in charge of the design changes, and his levels are great in Mania, but I don't think he did enough chsnges to the levels. I do like the changes he did do.

    I think that otherwise though, Sonic Mania is the best Sonic game ever made and by a considerable margin.
     
  18. Fadaway

    Fadaway

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    No Amy & Ristar side quest. Booooooo.
     
  19. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    ...wait, for real? I had no idea lol.

    Anyway, as Laura said I think Sonic Mania is by far the best Sonic game ever made, and that's coming from an Adventure fanboy :V I can't even bring myself to nitpick about it, it's just...such a good game, hot damn.

    That being said, my one true complain about it would be that the stage selection is kinda lackluster. Green Hill and Chemical Plant were both in Gens, did we really need them again here? Green Hill especially, I was beyond done with it BEFORE Forces and Mania, so now I can safely say I don't want to see this stage ever again in a Sonic game. I mean we all know it's gonna be the first stage again in the 2021 game, but a man can dream right?
    Oil Ocean sucked in Sonic 2 and it's not amazing here either. I also don't know what compelled them to bring back the Sandopolis ghost gimmick in act 2, combining two annoying stages into one, for some reason?
    Metalic Madness is much better here than it was in CD, but still, having two final stages (counting Titanic Monarch) in one Sonic game is a bit too much I think. I'm happy they got to make a huge Sonic game and all, but one less zone would've helped to make the adventure feel a bit less tiring by the end.

    Still an amazing game.
     
  20. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    - Crushing happens too easily, where the classic Sonic games would push you out, Mania crushes you.
    - Level design is generally mediocre, although it has some standout moments and it's generally better than Sonic 2 at least. Levels aren't big, they're a bunch of short platforming sections interspersed with periods of just holding down.
    - Knuckles has barely any exclusive routes. Playing as Knuckles in S3K feels like new content. Playing as Knuckles in Mania feels like Mirage Saloon and Lava Reef have new content and that's it.
    - Bosses are awful. Very poor at conveying attacks and vulnerable periods, and generally just uninteresting. When can you hit the Flying Battery Zone boss, and when do you completely fly through him to your spiky death at the other side? Nothing tells you!
    - Sonic/Tails Mirage Saloon Act 1. Hey, remember the worst part of the classic games? Let's copy all of its flaws exactly! Autoscroller that goes on forever? Check! Running in place on a plane (what's wrong with just moving the plane?)? Check! Spindash or Drop Dash and die? Check! Sonic 4 did this better? Check!