Bashing Sonic CD

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by JustAMotobug, May 6, 2020.

  1. I get the issue with how people say “speed is a reward” hell, i say it too. But what we mean isn’t just a quick burst of speed that ends after aa second, but a long burst of speed that can cut significant time from the level. However most of CD’s levels don’t allow that.

    Most of the speed sections are either two springs placed in a crevasse or a loop that goes nowhere only to go to the future. I’M LOOKING AT YOU, COLLISION CHAOS.

    Imagine all of the sonic CD levels without the timeposts or time mechanics, but with the same level design. It just isn’t good nor does it make sense with all of the spring and endless loops. Most of the levels are a slog to play through and complete, especially with Tidal Tempest, Wacky Workbench and Collision Chaos. While it is faster than sonic 1, that’s all you can really say about it.
     
  2. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    That was exactly what I had been thinking of at the time too when I had complained about that, Spring Yard and Star Light Zone were the two stages where I noticed it very hardcore - the other non-GHZ stages not having any opportunities to be quick enough to hit the cap. IIRC the screencap of the incorrect slope angle for Sonic's sprite I had seen was even in Spring Yard.
     
  3. Palas

    Palas

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    You don't have to imagine it -- that's what the time attack mode is. And you'd be surprised how fast it can be. There's even some control and physics shenanigans you can pull off that seem to be exclusive to Sonic CD somehow, but that I could never understand so here goes an example. Plus, the level design shouldn't be analyzed without the time mechanics because that's what the level design is there for in this game. And once again, while there are levels with quick and easy ways to time travel (Quartz Quadrant Act 1 itself), that's not true of all stages and, interestingly, it's not true of the slowest stages. Tidal Tempest -- Act 2, I think? -- only really has these long but open platforming sections that you have to use, bouncing off badniks and whatnot, to gather enough speed for enough time. You have to plan ahead somewhat, but it's worth it. It really feels like you have to understand the level's geometry, advantages and disadvantages.
     
  4. BlueFrenzy

    BlueFrenzy

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    I think Sonic CD would have been better as a sandbox game rather than a platform level based game. Level design is quite different from other Sonic games, and focuses too much in workshops that are cool to interact, but goes completely against the flow of the game that has a beginning and an end.

    No imagine something in the direction of a metroidvania, where levels have no start or end but are a composition of workshops tied together in a giant playground. Add on top of that the timetravel in a non-consumable way and figure out your way forward to find the timestones, defeat bosses and cross through long sections using the higher speeds.

    But we are talking about 1993. Probably that kind of game was impossible at that moment. But, who is up to a fangame? :P
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  5. My problem is that, well, what you said is for any platformer. The more skilled you are, the faster you can beat it. But the thing about sonic is that the levels are set up in such a way that you can go fast regardless of skill and able to go EVEN FASTER with skill. Sonic CD takes that formula and throws it out the window.

    Almost every location in the game is a maze and has many parts that lead to walls that you almost can’t avoid. The bouncy floor in wacky workbench is a good example, as it launches you to the top of the level where you have to get back down, with a high chance to just land on the ground again. This isn’t good design, as the platforms you use to get across safely and fast are bouncing too fast for you to react, and you basically jump under the platform to, of course, be launched up to the heavens.

    Collision Chaos is also very similar with this, With endless bumpers that spring you to the exact opposite location you WANT TO land or jump.
     
  6. Palas

    Palas

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    That's almost true, but while in every platformer (and indeed in every game that demands you to go from A to B) you complete stages faster the more skilled you are, games usually don't get easier the more skilled you are. Not just because you're more skilled, but because the threats are incapable of threatening you the faster you're able to run. In Sonic, however, being capable of using the level in your favor nullifies the level's hazards. So you can't really go fast regardless of skill, because you'll just die. But you must go fast in one way or another.

    Take how, in Sonic CD, you get invincible while almost-time-traveling, or how spindash+jumping is often at the same time the best way to cross a section and to remain invulnerable. But, even while going fast, you have to stop, look around, assess the risks etc. You have to go slower before going fast and throwing yourself at the level. Sonic CD is just so much more in your face about it.

    While I can agree they overdid it in both stages, I love the concepts. I think they're wonderful design because controlling a speedy ball of blue fur is part of learning how to go fast. Wacky Workbench is probably the stage in which I enjoy time traveling the most because you benefit so much from controling your landing to hit a badnik and keep your momentum. It's a lot of fun. Still, the stages can't possibly be mazes. You already know the way out. It's to the right. The only time when I really thought "right, how the FUCK am I supposed to get out" were in Quartz Quadrant, I think act 2? that was full of dead ends, and goddamn Metallic Madness Act 2.

    But, right, I should stop defending Sonic CD so much. To keep on topic, I'll just say: fuck the Collision Chaos boss. I really like the idea of a pinball boss, but the random ass balls that make you bounce are hell. And the field even has its own bounces, so I don't think they were needed. I got so many Time Overs in that trainwreck of a boss.
     
  7. Honestly though. If they wanted to make a pinball boss, they should’ve waited until pinball physics were actually better and not feel like a chore.
     
  8. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    ???? Sonic 1 is absolutely slow for like 75% of its runtime. CD is the same way. It was only from 2 onwards that they started to focus more on speed and even then that's the game that had the latter half of the levels punish you hard for dashing too quickly through the level.
     
  9. Which is half of the reason people are being more open about bashing sonic 1 now. The level design was unfair, too slow, and wasn’t that fun after green hill.

    Sonic CD has only like 2 good levels and, like i said, is all I can say about it. Sonic 3 and 2 are fun because it actually feels like how sonic was meant to be. High-speed action, but with a few platforming sections. Sonic 1 was just a puzzle platformer and not what truly made sonic fast. Sonic CD didn’t help that case either.
     
  10. Nova

    Nova

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    CDs levels are way, way more conducive to speedrunning than Sonic 1's ever were.
     
  11. TheJart

    TheJart

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    I understand this is a bit of a bump, and for that I apologize, but I thought it would be pretty bad if I made a new post for this video. If this breaks any rule, I apologize and i’ll take it down. I made a video trying to talk about this controversial game, and I used some thoughts from this very board (with permission from everyone) to help make it. So i’m hoping it’s okay.
     
  12. gold lightning

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    Personally, I don't like the game in its original form. Load times ruin the pace, the level design cries for widescreen more than any other 2D Sonic game (imo), the spindash sucks, and the special stages just aren't fun.
    That said, if I'm playing the 2011 version, I always have a good time. All the aforementioned issues were addressed and it allows all the game's good qualities to shine through for me. Save for Wacky Workbench, I really don't find the levels to be any more cumbersome than pretty much all of Sonic 1 except for GHZ and SLZ. The only issue I have with the level design is that some of the paths to the robot generators are quite honestly bullshit. But since those generators are optional in more ways than one, that's not a deal breaker. One thing I like about CD is that it gives you more freeflow control over Sonic in mid-air than any other 2D Sonic game and it allows you to go ham with it in the level design to find insane skips and oddball paths in ways the other games don't. And that JP soundtrack is still my favorite after all these years.