Bashing Sonic 2: Electric Boogaloo

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Dek Rollins, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    Sky Chase’s music never really felt... right to me. I mean, it’s a decent track and I guess it works, but it’s so obvious it wasn’t intended for that level which just sort of distracts me.
     
  2. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    I have to disagree on this, Sky Chase's music is spot on, in my opinion, it's slow and calm, and what's slower and more boring than an autoscroller? With that kind of pace you really can't expect any different music, try to imagine that stage with (say) the Athletic music from Super Mario Bros 3, which often occurs above the clouds as well, it would completely be out of place.
     
  3. kyasarintsu

    kyasarintsu

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    I like Sky Chase a lot thematically. Gameplay-wise I don't mind it and I'm always fine with the breather.
    Mirage Saloon 1 always annoys me. It might be the upbeat music making me impatient.
     
  4. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

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    I like Sky Chase. It's a relaxing easy stage after frustrating Metropolis. Doesn't overstay it's welcome. It's also "the calm before the storm" story-wise. The progression; sky - battleship - then space station finale is kind of exciting, and appreciated since there's no story between Emerald Hill and Metropolis and the zone progression between EH & Metropolis makes no sense.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  5. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    I have a great fondness for Mystic Cave Zone honestly, probably my first introduction to a "cave level" in video games. I wouldn't have minded that showing up in Mania alongside Lava Reef even (god knows we have several silverish metallic zones in that game, so why not another cave level?).
     
  6. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    I tend to lose steam around Mystic Cave and Oil Ocean on a light play, which is odd because, besides maybe OOZ's boss, neither of those levels are particularly tedious, just I think the first five levels are the highlight (yes, I love Hill Top).
     
  7. Only for viewing

    Only for viewing

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    I'm pretty sure datamines found Hidden Palace Zone (the Sonic 2 one) was considered for Mania, so, that.
     
  8. Mana

    Mana

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    never heard this and need proof
     
  9. Only for viewing

    Only for viewing

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    assumption was that both scrap brain and hidden palace were considered for mania as they had their spritesheets ported from their respective remakes, separate from the blueprints sheet
     
  10. Mana

    Mana

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    I'm thinking they were just ported over because they found other weird stuff from the remakes in Mania that weren't used either.
     
  11. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    Sky chase is a great zone, and putting it before Wing Fortress was definitely a good move. Even on repeat playthroughs it both acts as a breather after Metropolis and a build up to Wing Fortress and the ultimate finale of the game. And the music is perfect. I actually don't like Mirage Saloon in comparison, partly because of those stupid twirling birds that never let up.

    I always refer to the Metropolis-Death Egg sequence as "the story levels" for fairly obvious reasons, though it's true that it does sort of start with Oil Ocean. I would argue that, while the previous zones have a rather wacky progression, I don't think it's all that bad. Moving Chemical Plant would help.

    I think it's worth considering that, aside from the sheer ambition behind the game's development, Sonic 2 has more zones than Sonic 1. It was maybe difficult to juggle everything into a coherent thematic narrative once the time travel plot and the unfinished zones were scrapped. It looks like they were mainly trying to keep each new zone fresh and interesting, rather than putting all the grassy zones next to each other and risk the locales becoming a bit monotonous. That said, something should be judged for what it is.

    It doesn't bother me that much, because the story elements that are in Sonic 2 are wonderful, along with all the little things that make it special. I love that silver Mecha Sonic is a perfect antithesis to Sonic; a lifeless industrial recreation (and he looks cool as heck). I love that you can see the Hill Top mountains in Emerald Hill.

    I also think that the art style inconsistencies, while present, are sometimes blown out of proportion. Aquatic Ruin is the only zone that feels particularly out of place, since of the grass zones, it's the most detailed and realism-driven. Hill Top was meant to capture the polygonal style they used in Green Hill (I think Yuji Naka said this), and of course it shares assets with Emerald Hill. I actually remember noticing the inconsistent mountains in Green Hill and Marble Zone in Sonic 1 as a kid. But every location feels unique, and I like that. I really wish Hidden Palace made it in, because that's some pretty level art.

    I can't remember if anyone mentioned it in this thread, but I've seen a misconception pop up every once in a while that the sprite in Sonic 2 follows the mohawk design, when in fact it does not. All his proper spikes are visible in his '3D' animations, like the corkscrew in Emerald Hill, and his idle animation shares the correct shape from the Sonic 1 sprite. I just wanted to bring it up since I was thinking about it.
     
  12. Aesculapius Piranha

    Aesculapius Piranha

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    Oh man. Unpopular opinion time. Finding the bashing threads was a mistake. Even back in the day though there was a lot that didn't feel right about 2 to me after 1. This will be a bit cathartic since I never got to complain about the things wrong with 2 since back in the day I was just happy there was a 2.
    • 2 acts. What the fuck?
    • Soundtrack nowhere near as good as 1's. There are some great tracks, of course but I mean ffs what is the deal with Oil Ocean Zone? Wasn't that good at all in places. Don't get me wrong. Chemical Plant is amazing among others.
    • On that note: Death Egg had a decent track that was just thrown away. It was a short loop, but that eerie buildup didn't even have time to happen.
    • Death Egg in general could have been more fleshed out. Great bosses, though.
    • Small nitpick but the spike feature was fine.
    • Hill Top.
    • Super Sonic was a mistake. Fun but very few games have used him well. Really cool reward to discover but he is game breaking. Also that one spike pit you have to wait to die if you fall into if you are Super Sonic in Mystic Cave.
    • Overall art style just isn't as nice looking.
    • Didn't like the half-pipe special stage, especially after the freaking awesome dreamlike special stage of 1
    • Metropolis zone was somehow both better designed and more boring than Scrap Brain. Also one of the tracks I wasn't a fan of.
    • Tails. Literally. Why? I mean okay P2 but just no. My friends and I would joke Tails was an annoying curse that Sonic had to run away from.
    • Edit: Nearly forgot, never liked the spin dash animation and I've always had mixed feelings about its addition. On one hand it is great to have a way to shoot to top speed from the get go. On the other hand there is a lot of fun in the feel of mastering the spin attack and learning to use momentum to your favor with it, and this takes away the necessity of that. In general I think Sonic Team typically goes to extremes with mechanics that make things easier. Homing attack much later on being the worst culprit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  13. Ashura96

    Ashura96

    HEROIC VERSE Oldbie
    All the shit that was cut from the game. All of it.

    If Sonic 2 even remotely resembled what it was supposed to be, it would give S3&K a run for its money.

    At least we have Hidden Palace back.
     
  14. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    gonna be honest, I feel that would've made it even more uneven than the final product. Wood Zone is fugly, for instance.
     
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  15. Bryn2k

    Bryn2k

    Still a thing. Oldbie
    Once I grew up past the age of 7 and could get past Chemical Plant Act 2 I never really had any issues with Sonic 2 until Metropolis. Then oh boy...

    The absolute worst bit of Sonic 2 hands down for me are the enemy placements in Metropolis Zone. I get it's the penultimate "real" zone, and the difficulty should be high as a result, but this is *cheap* difficulty and therefore there is no reward in overcoming the challenge. You have to crawl at an absolute snail-pace because there *will* be an Asteron adjacent to the screw lift, and if you dodge that kamikaze you *will* get knocked back by a Slicer. Shellcrackers next to lava pits can get in the sea as well.

    Another annoying part of Metropolis Zone is the crush-piston on the conveyor belt in Act 2. It took me ages to work out you're supposed to jump *over* the piston and not try to go under it. Always used to take alternative paths to avoid that trap. The boss is just drawn out, not difficult. Time your jumps, or damage boost to win.

    Wing Fortress has some mercy in its otherwise unforgiving design - imagine if the flames from the rocket boosters in the background between the circular platforms and grab rails actually harmed you. You'd be knocked back to death every. single. time. In fact I used to think these could harm you and did the most pathetic of jumps to make sure I avoided contact. I've never been killed by the launcher before the pit, mind, nor have I been launched back by its twin on the other side of the pit. The damage boost shortcut is worth it. The funniest thing you can do in Wing Fortress is get crushed by the 1up monitor if you knock it off the perch. In fact, why has Wing Fortress got those three 10 ring monitors floating as if we've gone Mario all of a sudden? Was a platform supposed to be there? This level has caused me many bottomless pit deaths.

    I think what I hate most about Wing Fortress is the entire structure is held together by the non-functioning conveyor belt. Look at the level map and ask how that thing hasn't broken in two? Those two hook and platform areas look as if they were designed to be indoors like the boss arena is but they'd not worked out how to program the transition (would the switch to enter the boss arena not be workable here?)

    Still at least you get the 1up after the boss. You'll need it.

    The pit in Mystic Cave Zone? I first discovered that in 2P mode because of the CONSTANT FRAMERATE LOSS which threw my momentum and down I went. Never once fell in it on a 1P playthrough, and I'd have never have in a million years thought to deliberately fall in it to access Hidden Palace as per the remake.
     
  16. Ashura96

    Ashura96

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    This is also assuming the cut content was going to get polished up to standard with the levels that are still in the game. Wood Zone obviously needed a lot more work besides a full level layout.
     
  17. Bryn2k

    Bryn2k

    Still a thing. Oldbie
    Wood Zone feels very 8-bit and like it would have been at home there instead of the Mega Drive. The artwork was bland, the background was clearly a placeholder too given the lack of layers. I don't think it would have brought much to the table. The Wai prototype level layout feels very much like an asset test than anything to be developed further as well.
     
  18. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    For me my issue with it is the godawful foreground art and aesthetic. The wood isn't Sonic-like at all, the "floor"/"platform" tiles don't fit together well in a way that feels coherent, and the colors are ugly. I also feel that the art wouldn't have been polished up to release, as literally only one zone got its aesthetic overhauled in development (Casino Night); everything else had smaller changes than what would be required to make Wood Zone up to par, and this is very likely why it was cut to begin with.