Bashing Sonic 2: Electric Boogaloo

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Dek Rollins, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    Just filling the obvious gap.

    As someone who loves Sonic 2 and considers it the best of the classics, followed closely by Sonic 1, here goes...
    • The zone progression is kind of weird. It doesn't build a strong narrative through-line. I think the difficulty curve is good though.
    • Some of the water-filled bottom paths in Aquatic Ruin Zone are a bit too punishing IMO. Since they made it fairly easy to avoid the water entirely, it seems they took a different approach to the lower route than Labyrinth Zone. I just think the level design in those spots could be better, so the player doesn't feel totally screwed when they fall down. Otherwise it's a great zone, and not every underwater area is bad.
    • In Oil Ocean Zone, there is one instance where the seahorses fire at you from just off screen, making it difficult to avoid without knowing when it's coming.
    • Grievances with Metropolis Zone: The crabs have a messed up hitbox and it's a tad annoying. There are three instances where a slicer is placed badly. One in a fairly enclosed area, where avoiding his attack is made extremely difficult, especially since there's just enough empty running space to be full speed by the time you reach him. Another that walks inside the entrance to one of the transportation tubes, so he's hardly visible and you'll just run into him without realizing he was there. Finally, the guy who looms overhead when you go up a particular vertical spring gimmick. You have to get hit by him and be launched up to the opposite ledge to continue on that route. You can avoid this one by taking the opposite route through the stage, but he resides in the more obvious direction. Other than those, I absolutely love Metropolis Zone as a whole. Three acts and all. Slicers, under most circumstances, can be easily dealt with by jumping over their attack, and the starfish attacks can be avoided as well. Having to run backwards to reset the screw lift if you get knocked off is annoying, but I don't consider it that big of an issue honestly.
    • The bad ending is better than the good ending.
    • You can't fly as Tails.
     
  2. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    Oil Ocean Zone sucks ass. I remember when I got to it in Mania I actually went "Aw fuck! Why did they pick this one?" The fact that they actually made the damn thing fun goes to show Evening Star's level of talent.

    While the 2P mode is fun, I don't like the stretched visuals. It's just ugly. I really would rather the ends of the screen be black.

    Having to transform into Super Sonic sucks. I always liked to save Super mode for boss fights. At least the StealthTax version fixed that.
     
  3. Palas

    Palas

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    See, Sonic music always sounded better than the average Mega Drive music to me. I have no idea what they did that was so superior. Maybe they tweaked with the soundchip a bit -- I really have no clue. Sonic music has this mellow, full quality to it, especially in the bass, the makes it very pleasant to hear, whereas other games sound like every instrument had a slap effect.

    And Sonic 2, weirdly, sounds like the average Mega Drive game.

    The composition is great, of course, but the instruments sound thinner and brighter than in Sonic 1 and S3&K. It's not that I dislike the sound of Sonic 2, but it sounds less special than the other games somehow. Sonic 2 soundtrack sounds like a Genesis Remix of itself.

    It's as if Marble Zone sounded like this.
     
  4. Billy

    Billy

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  5. Laura

    Laura

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    I just completed the special stages for the first time today. All seven of them. I had to use save states extensively because of how incredibly difficult and unfair the patterns get. There's hardly any margin for error. Did anyone actually do this legitimately on the Mega Drive/Genesis?
     
  6. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    I did, but it was the last one I did (yes, even after Sonic 1).
     
  7. Mana

    Mana

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    Difficulty gap between Emerald Hill Zone and Chemical Plant Zone should not exist. I know a lot of people who never even got past the CPZ when they were younger because of how much harder the game got on that level out of nowhere.
     
  8. Swifthom

    Swifthom

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    Yes.

    But i can't now. And never on the first attempt - you have to replay them dozens of time to get them down, for the last 2 stages its a memory challenge far more than a skill/reflex test. You can 'sort' of get the pattern but mess up even once and you are out.

    I'd say my biggest problem with Sonic 2 (that I dont think anyone has put here yet) is that theres no rings for the final boss, and that you have to re fight silver sonic each time you want another go at the egg robo. 24 lives later finally got them both down in the same attempt and get the credits. Just feels like time wasting by this point.
     
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  9. Mana

    Mana

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    I don't know how I managed to beat the final boss for Sonic 2 on my iPad in 2016 but I'm never going to do that again. Like you said the no rings thing really hurts, so imagine that super precise final boss on an iPad's digital controls. I must have been in a phase of self hatred or something to even attempt it in the first place...
     
  10. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    I used to dislike Sonic 2 because my first playtrough was a frustrating dumpster fire, something that didn't happen to me with 1 and 3...and CD. Sonic 2 is a hard fucking game.

    Now that I've gotten better at it, I can comfortably beat the game without dying, as long as I focus during the final boss. Still, I think Sonic 2 is the most "90's platformer" of the classic trilogy, for better or for worse. Its got a lot of notoriously cheap moments that bring the whole thing down imo, not enough for me to consider it bad, but still... a very flawed game overall.
    But it also got a lot of amazing moments as well. Sonic 2, at its best, is an amazing game. And it's at its best most of the time, I'll give it that.
    But, still...of the Classic trilogy, it's the one I find myself replaying the least.

    Overall, my opinions on the Classic game are Mania>3&K>1=2>CD. But really, I love them all, even CD. There's very few platformers out there like Sonic, and I'm happy the little guy got such a good run on his debut generation.
     
  11. Starduster

    Starduster

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    • Specials Stages are a crime against humanity and while Taxman improved them they have not been redeemed by any rerelease. Accessing them is a pain in the ass too, especially in the later levels.
    • Level layouts don’t feel as adventurous/explorative as 3&K with a few exceptions (such as Acquatic Ruins).
    • Fighting Silver Sonic and the Death Egg Robot back to back without a checkpoint is some bullshit fake difficulty clearly there to pad out play time when you inevitably game over.
    • 2P VS. looks abysmal. I understand they were limited by the tech of the time and vertical split screen would be just as dreadful or more so but seeing that stretched aspect ratio brings me pain.
     
  12. TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

    TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

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    The only “Electric Boogaloo” in the Sonic franchise is Adventure 2. Sonic 2 is great except for the fact there are three acts of Metropolis. Also it's not Sonic 3.
     
  13. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    My three biggest gripes with Sonic 2 are:

    - Too many slow zones. After I clear CNZ, the game becomes a complete slog. From HTZ on, the zones are made up of boring slow-paced layouts with generic platforming and little to no speed. That's over half the game. At least in Sonic 1, they slow zones made up "only" half the game, and weren't all lumped together.

    - The wildly inconsistent art style. For instance, the clouds in EHZ look extremely different from those in OOZ or SCZ. The mountains in the BGs of ARZ and HTZ have hilariously clashing art styles. And don't even get me started on the lava in HTZ and MZ, or the rocks in MCZ and HTZ. I know that multiple artists worked on the game, but you'd expect some coordination between them to ensure that the different zones actually look like they belong to the same game.

    - The inability to disable teleport monitors in 2p vs mode, turning races into broken hax-fests where skill doesn't really matter. It's even worse when you set all items to teleport monitors. In that instance, all you have to do is stand next to a monitor near the beginning, wait until the other player is about to reach the goal post and break it. There, your opponent did all the work and you got the win.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
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  14. Xilla

    Xilla

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    Personally I just don't feel it looks as nice as Sonic 1. The art style just seems inconsistent to me, even Sonic's new set piece animations stick out a bit compared to the original set.

    That section near the end of Metropolis Act 3 can eat my shite too.
     
  15. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

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    I get bored more quickly playing Sonic 2 than any of the other classic games. Level design is all over the place; either too easy-hold right to win, boring layouts or bullshit enemy placement-looking at you Metropolis.

    The more slippery controls (compared to Sonic 1, CD & 3K) make some of the platforming segments which require precision movement more cumbersome than they should be.

    Hill Top is a boring stage which is of course aesthetically too similar to Emerald Hill.

    Tails (AI) is a pain in the Special stages because of how late he reacts to Sonic's movement.

    Super Sonic is horrible to control-so slippery. As a result I always avoid getting the emeralds until later in the game. I also avoid the route to the bottomless pit in Mystic Cave...

    Has a fun 2-player vs mode, although the slowdown in Mystic Cave sucks.

    The level order doesn't feel right and asthetically this game doesn't look as nice compared to the other classics.

    All the scrapped zones and scrapped time-travel gimmick makes it seem like Sonic 2 had a lot more untapped potential.

    Sonic 2 is a decent enough game, but definitely gets more praise than it deserves.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  16. kyasarintsu

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    It's a bit simple and easy but I don't consider it a flaw. If I want a breezy game to spend an hour on, it's this game that I pick. There's a flow to it that I like a lot.
    The special stages are pretty weak, Metropolis starts to suck around halfway through, and there are some annoying enemies and placements like the seahorse, mantis, and firefly. I don't have any other major problems with this game.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  17. Wildcat

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    So I understand Sonic 2 is considered the best of the Genesis era. Even by general gamers. I personally think it’s Sonic3&K but I think I know why Sonic 2 is regarded as superior.

    It introduced 3 big standard...spindash, tails, super sonic, and it was coming off the success of the first game instead of being more down the line which meant most would try it out.

    The biggest reason I think though is it’s difficultly. It’s the easiest and most approachable imo. All the levels have a certain flow that allows pretty much anyone to progress with decent effort.

    It was always the one I could get the furthest in before having any real trouble. I think Sky Chase and Winged Fortress are probably the hardest because they operate differently and of course the ringless final battles. The game just gives the players a sense of accomplishment.

    As for complaints. The 1 hit kill final battles. 1 hit kills are always really unfair no matter what. I know Sonic 1s final boss was like that but the fight is oddly very easy and it’s just 1 phase.

    Some cheap shots from certain enemies and that one spike pit in Mystic Cave that you can’t escape if you’re not careful. More of a nitpick but kinda weird.
     
  18. Xilla

    Xilla

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    Another one:

    Special Stage being one of the "Zones" in 2P Mode. Whenever I play it with my bro we usually just play the 3 normal zones and leave Special out. It's just not that fun as a competition as it basically amounts of trying to jump in front of the other player rather than collecting rings.

    Good to see a project in the Reverse Engineering forum rectifying that though :p
     
  19. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    This talk about the special stages reminded me that those are another thing I dislike about Sonic 2. I mean, I appreciate how impressive they were for their time, but they're still the most frustrating and boring SS in the classic games IMO. I enjoy most SS in the series (some I hate at first, but I usually start enjoying them once I get the hang of them), but the ones from Sonic 2 are a rare exception. Even today, I still find them awfully repetitive, tedious, and needlessly hard. I think great part of the reason lies in that the way they work doesn't allow for as much variety in the layouts as other SS, being the most basic implementation of the half-pipe format; combined with the fact they're some of the hardest in the series (at least to me).
     
  20. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Glad to help. :D

    I didn't hate the special stages, though I admit they were my last choice and after the tie breakers I was kinda bored of them. The whole layering of the two characters is big hinderance competitively.

    It's such a shame they didn't quite think over the level design work when split screen was being made so there might have been more actual levels to choose from.

    Also would have been cool if they found a way to keep it and normal options in Knuckles lock-on mode.


    Also a big one, Tails not being able to fly, his debut appearance and they shilled his flying ability like crazy....but you can't use it yourself. Even that however is more forgivable than the fact that even long after they finally figured how to implement it into later titles, out of all of Sonic 2's rereleases, only ONE version has rectified this. Even the SEGA AGES and Jam versions didn't add flying in, despite adding spin dash in Sonic 1.

    Metropolis isn't as unbearable to me as others say, but the 3 acts is a bit of dull after a while. Being the final 'conventional' level in the game, I can see why they did it, though it's still a bit monotonous with no change ups.


    Besides that and the clear rough edges from being rushed to shelves, it's hard to knock Sonic 2. It was my first game on the Megadrive and I love it so.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020