Bashing Sonic 1

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64, Jul 16, 2020.

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  1. Sai Start Marker

    Sai Start Marker

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    Sonic the Hedgehog is my favourite Sonic game hands down. It has the most interesting development, the most charming sprite work, and the purest Sonic gameplay (rolling for life).

    I grant you that this is not a popular opinion, but it (and Sonic CD) is leagues above everything that came after it, to my mind. I also don’t believe all the levels were rushed after Green Hill Zone. It has a specific structure and it really works for me.
     
  2. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    Add me to the list of people who prefer Sonic 1 to Sonic 2.

    I still prefer Sonic 3 & Knuckles, though.
     
  3. Palas

    Palas

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    To add to this topic: good enemies aren't alone in how good they are. A stage has good enemies if there's a theme to them, if they make you change your strategy in a specific way. A good boss makes you use what you learned with the badniks and enemies. And while nobody really likes Labyrinth Zone, I think its enemies are fantastic down to the incredibly hard, but thematically perfect boss. All enemies in the stage force you to hone your reflexes and move around fast, which is harder underwater. The boss is exactly that.

    The same can't be said for Spring Yard, which is just all over the place. Bees have you understand trajectories and control jumps, but then there's the spike ball chains that have you time your moves and also that proto-Sonic-clone that... scares you to death I guess. And then the boss has nothing to do with whatever the stage "taught" you.
     
  4. If Sonic 1 ever got the full remake treatment, I’d love to see the 8-bit stages reimagined as if they were part of the Genesis game. Also stage transitions like 3K would be neat too.

    Anyway, a bit back on topic: one thing that bugs me about Sonic 1 is how the definitive way to play it is still largely locked on phones. The Retro Engine version really rectifies a lot of the issues I have with the game (ESPECIALLY because it supports widescreen) and adds neat bonuses like other characters and Super Sonic.
     
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  5. Lapper

    Lapper

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    I'm a big Sonic 1 defender I guess, Labyrinth is just missing some slopes. Nothing physically in it I actually find bad at all, its simply missing stuff. In my opinion.

    Oh yeah a nitpick thread um, so yeah Sonic is a bit too purple, yuck :thumbsup:
     
  6. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    Sonic 1 is a better game than 3&K. I said it. I think Sonic 2 is the best Sonic game, but Sonic 1 is almost as perfect, but in different ways. I'm surprised to see so many complaints about the Starlight bombs. They're a part of the general enemy progression throughout the game (enemies get more dangerous the further you go). Labyrinth Zone is a fantastic stage that challenges the player.

    If I had to nitpick Sonic 1, I'd say that the glitchy hitbox on the caterkillers can be annoying, but it's easy to work around regardless. And Sonic might be a bit too purple. :p
     
  7. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Sonic enemies where you have to wait for an open though are counter intuitive to Sonic at it's core. It's a game/series that encourages you to keep moving, waiting for bombs to explode isn't as much a challenge as it is an exercise in patience.

    Oddly though I think the bombs make sense in 3d games, you have more room to dodge so they're still obstacles but you have more opportunity to dodge it.
     
  8. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    I don't see it as counter intuitive to Sonic 1. I think there are a couple of places where you can jump between them, and a couple where you can avoid them by going a different way. Yeah, sometimes you have to wait for them, but it takes like, four seconds for them to explode. Not exactly a long wait, especially compared to the waiting in Spring Yard Zone, which can also be avoided in a few instances, or in Marble Zone. None of these bother me as much as they seem to bug other people (the blocks in Spring Yard are the only waiting obstacles that I actually disliked when I was a kid, and I don't mind them as much anymore).
     
  9. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    Labyrinth Zone Act 3 is probably one of the worst water levels I've ever played in a video game. And the boss literally defies the convention of the past three levels, but you won't find that out until you accidentally reach the end, meanwhile losing numerous lives trying to blow him up.
     
  10. All of my unfiltered hatred of this game is with Marble zone.

    Oh... Marble zone... where do i begin? First of all, the elephant in the room, this stage is BORING. Almost everything in this stage makes you wait. Want to get across this pool of lava? Wait. Want to raise this spike trap to get through? Wait. It’s truly bad game design. You don’t go from one of the most fun stages in the game and go into this. Even then, there’s some traps in place that can send you flying back into lava, like the red spring near the swings in act 2(?)

    Second of all is a less talked about gripe, the enemies. My god, the enemies here SUCK. They’re all either too easy to deal with for this point in the game or so obnoxious that even experienced players have a hard time dealing with.

    The arcade port of sonic 1 removes marble and labyrinth zone, and for that reason, that makes it one of my favorite sonic 1 ports. Yeah, the time mechanic sucks, but i’d rather lose something like a bit of time than deal with those stages anymore.

    God, I just fucking HATE marble zone.
     
  11. Wildcat

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    Labyrinth is annoying. Don’t really liked water levels and being able to drown makes that worse. Never enjoyed Hydro City either.

    Probably my only complaint. Not that it’s perfect otherwise. I’m just fine with the rest.

    I like water themes but typically water stages in games are not fun because of the altered control and limited air. It makes sense but they’re not fun.
     
  12. Gestalt

    Gestalt

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    Sonic 1, for me, has so much nostalgia attached to it that I find it hard to say something negative. The first game I have ever played was Sonic 1 on the Sonic Compilation (the one with Sonic 2 and Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine). I got it for my birthday. My father came for a visit and set up the console. Needless to say, my dad was the coolest dad on earth on that day. That's probably why it left such a strong impression on me. You can't beat that feeling.

    Years later, my only real criticism would be some sprites, but even they are top-notch and have evolved into something incredible. I'm afraid I'm of no use for you guys here. :V

    PS: I grew to love Labyrinth Zone over the years. It's a tough level (especially in Ring Keep mode), but an enjoyable one if you know what you're doing.

    Damn, I'm really of no use here. Sorry lol
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  13. Rudie Radio Waves

    Rudie Radio Waves

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    It's a little unnecessary, considering the TaxStealth port, but a Sonic 1 South Island Revisited with those stages would be nice.
    ...and a Sonic 2 West Side Island Revisited without the S2 SMS stages.

    EDIT: @heyjoeway on Twitter is working on a Widescreen Sonic 2 with a lot of toggleable features, and @Triangly also on Twitter is making a Sonic 1 remake, which is coming to SAGE. So, huzzah sort of!
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  14. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

    Scooty Puff Jr sucks! Member
    Bashing Sonic 1? Okay lets do this:

    The spike-instant death glitch in the original release is incredibly annoying (you know; if Sonic lands on spikes, loses his rings and then immediately lands on spikes again and dies). For inexperienced players this can easily lead to a game over in Green Hill zone act 1...

    Marble zone is my least favourite stage. I don't particularly like the aesthetic or the music. Whilst this zone is designed to be much slower than GH, very stop-start and teaches the importance of timing/precision movement (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), some of the sections; such as the tubes which move up and down forcing the player to wait or get crushed, or having to ride the small blocks over lava feels like such a chore.

    Whilst "act3's" are fine for zones such as Green Hill & Star Light, they really overstay their welcome in Marble zone & Labyrinth. Marble zone especially because progression feels slower (than Labyrinth) and also you're still collecting chaos emeralds at this point in-between acts so by the time I reach act3 I just want to move onto Spring Yard already.

    The sections in Spring Yard where you have to move carefully between the ascending and descending cylinders are such a momentum killer.

    It wasn't until I played the Sonic 1 Stealth/Taxman mobile remaster that I finally got to grips with Labyrinth zone. Definitely gets more hate than it deserves, but it's a slow-paced maze like water-filled stage so the general dislike it gets is not surprising. When chasing Eggman if you are near the top, and get hit you can sometimes fall all the way back down to the bottom meaning you can't get out of the water without drowning....

    Star Light; the lowest route surrounded by bottomless pits everywhere can be quite daunting, but once you master staying on the highest route this zone almost becomes too easy. You can beat the whole zone in like under five minutes. Kinda like Mirage Saloon in Mania when you get to act2, the zone is starting to get really good and then ends all too quickly. Doesn't make the slog through Labyrinth zone feel worth it when Star Light feels in comparison is too short and too easy.

    Scrap Brain act3 or should I say "Labyrinth zone act 4" can go fuck itself. Okay, yes it's possible to get through this stage taking the long route without taking damage, but honestly after discovering the short-cut does anyone bother taking the longer route anymore? Also, the re-use of the Labyrinth aesthetic feels so lazy.

    As for the special stages; the 3rd one can go fuck itself.

    I like Sonic 1 it's a good game, but I must admit after playing with the spin-dash (from the mobile remaster) and the drop-dash (in the recent SEGA Ages Switch release), I find it difficult going back to the original version which feels so slow without them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  15. XAndrew

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    Sonic 1? Well it's rough around the edge's. The game's speed is only a thing in what? Two zones? And over all is just not as polished as it's sequels. That said, I do love replaying it.
     
  16. Wildcat

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    Ya Scrap Brain 3 “Labyrinth 4” is just inexcusable imo. They knew it was the most annoying level in the game so that’s why they reused it. I don’t remember a shortcut but that’s where I got game over the last time I played it.

    Maybe I should have specified it but I think it’s clear SB3 is included when talking about Labyrinth...cause that’s what it is.
     
  17. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

    Scooty Puff Jr sucks! Member
    This is the short-cut in SB3 (from 46:35 in this video):



    The short-cut makes this act a breeze, but even if you take the short-cut you need be careful because if you fall down you will rejoin the normal-longer route.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  18. kyasarintsu

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    I find it oddly satisfying to dodge the Uniduses in Labyrinth and I find the end of the third act really thrilling. I never actually minded the zone very much at all, minus a few cramped spaces and some potentially-cheap ceiling spikes.

    There isn't really anything engaging about dodging them most of the time. It's just waiting a few seconds for it to blow up, which can feel pretty bad when they lag up the game while doing so.
    A hallway with bombs on a layer above, ready to drop shrapnel on you if you can't make it through in time, is a good use of the enemy. Areas like this just beg me to damage boost through, something that I actively avoid even against most bosses.
     
  19. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    OK, now that I'm awake, here goes:

    Marble Zone never bothered me the way it does some people, but I understand why they hate it. It is very slow-paced and blocky, with not much opportunity for shortcuts, or speed in general.

    Labyrinth Zone can go suck a dick. When I replay an old save on the remaster, I skip it. Even though I can deal with it now, it's just so tedious. At least Hydrocity was able to keep you moving at a decent pace despite the water.

    Scrap Brain 3, now that I now the shortcut, is fine. It's literally under a minute this way. I do wonder, though: Sonic Team apparently said that they wanted it to have unique graphics. If they'd had time to do it, would the level be as hated? Unlike Sonic 2's reuse of assets (Hill Top and Death Egg), Labyrinth Zone's background are extremely distinctive, to the point that they're immediately recognized for what they are. How much of the hate for SB3 is spillover hate from Labyrinth?

    Even Spring Yard and Star Light come across as amateurish in their design. Star Light, much as it's a fun breeze, is so easy that they put exactly ONE lamppost in it (right before the boss), and Spring Yard has too many pace-breaking column platform sections, and not enough of the toys that later levels of its archetype would later be known and loved for.

    I mean I'm glad it eventually led to 3K and Mania, but yeah, it's VERY rough. I won't quite say Sonic Team hadn't figured out what they were doing, though, because Green Hill shows they could make it work.
     
  20. Gestalt

    Gestalt

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    In its defense, those few times that I managed to make it through Marble Zone were always the best. Spring Yard Zone just blew my mind, really. Like, what is this place? How do you get there? What's up with that music? After Green Hill and a rather stressful Marble Zone it made for a nice change of pace. But I agree that they're the weakest of the bunch design-wise, even though I never made it past Labyrinth Zone! As a kid, at least.
     
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