Badniks & Bosses

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Canned Karma, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. steveswede

    steveswede

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    It looks a bit odd to have it smaller at the back. The front and the back should be the same size. It makes the hat look awkward like it is now. You probably need to add a bit back to the back and bring in the front a little.
     
  2. Sonuw

    Sonuw

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    How's this?

    <img src="http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1563/nebulareboot18.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
     
  3. steveswede

    steveswede

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    What I think would work it to just make the inner body smaller. If you can take you original one, which I thought was fine by the way....

    <img src="http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1535/nebulashade1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    And just make the inner body smaller all together, like this rough edit. Try and get the proportions right so he doesn't look cramped inside. If you have a look at his back. It almost goes straight down so he doesn't look cramped.

    <img src="http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/slightlytwisted/nebulanedit.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Hope that make sense. And hopefully please most people here.
     
  4. Sonuw

    Sonuw

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    Okay well, made the original Nebula (or close to the original) smaller.

    <img src="http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/5737/nebulareboot19.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
     
  5. steveswede

    steveswede

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    Try and get the body central of the shell so the space between the edges and the body are equal in size. I also feel that you still need to make him less cramped in the shell. Making him a little smaller will do that.
     
  6. zemulii

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    <!--quoteo(post=440658:date=Apr 11 2010, 09:38 AM:name=Sonuw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sonuw @ Apr 11 2010, 09:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440658"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was never using the sprite as a reference to begin with. Everyone keeps having me edit the Nebula to the point where it looks like the sprite. The thick yellow border wasn't on the official art, the cannon thing wasn't so thin in the official art, and Nebula wasn't small enough where it looked like the hat would wobble all over the place as much in the official art.

    My point is, every time I try to make it look more and more like the official art, mainly with the base, the majority keeps telling me to keep it close to the original sprite as possible. I finally just said "fuck it" and made the colors like the sprite because that sprite is apparently what the majority wants me to follow. At least, that's what it SEEMS like anyway...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't think the point is to keep it looking <I>exactly</I> the same as the official art. If there are little subtleties that work better in the sprite, then by all means use them! I think there's better balance in colour when the top remains yellow though. It's all about getting the right balance. Following either one (sprite or art) religously will be limiting in the end. It's best to use multiple references if you can and take what works from each. The reason more weight is generally put on the official art I think, is because it gives a far better idea of what the artists may have originally intended than a very resolution limited sprite possibly can. We're still basing our <I>frames</I> off the sprite though, so you can't completely ignore that either of course!

    For now, I don't think the colours need any changing at all. The latest one is definitely looking better proportionally! There's still room for a little adjustment. I thought ICEknight's was pretty close to spot on:

    <img src="http://i41.tinypic.com/w0tf8m.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    The proportions seem overall more balanced (to me at least). With the angle of the back, slightly smaller body and higher base (less open gap between top and bottom). Don't worry about the shine or anything right now.

    Oh, and also the position of the screws, lowering them a little just spreads things out a bit.

    On second thoughts, maybe not <I>quite</I> as angled as the back in the picture. Something in between? Whatever looks best.
     
  7. HeartAttack

    HeartAttack

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    <!--quoteo(post=440198:date=Apr 9 2010, 03:46 PM:name=steveswede)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steveswede @ Apr 9 2010, 03:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440198"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=440174:date=Apr 9 2010, 11:08 PM:name=Cracker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cracker @ Apr 9 2010, 11:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440174"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->^ I'll admit I was thinking the same thing about the proportions, and I have to say I prefer your photoshop job.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't. I've been lovin Hamneggs concept over the original.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Agreed. I think it's genius, FWIW.
     
  8. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    <!--quoteo(post=440198:date=Apr 9 2010, 05:46 PM:name=steveswede)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steveswede @ Apr 9 2010, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440198"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't. I've been lovin Hamneggs concept over the original.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Uh, what? That's Sonuw's. I've just been giving lots of feedback....?
     
  9. steveswede

    steveswede

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    <!--quoteo(post=440852:date=Apr 11 2010, 06:36 AM:name=Hamneggs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamneggs @ Apr 11 2010, 06:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440852"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=440198:date=Apr 9 2010, 05:46 PM:name=steveswede)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steveswede @ Apr 9 2010, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440198"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't. I've been lovin Hamneggs concept over the original.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Uh, what? That's Sonuw's. I've just been giving lots of feedback....?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    O dear. I must have looked at the names quickly and put down Hamneggs accidentally. Sorry Sonuw.
     
  10. Sonuw

    Sonuw

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    Don't worry about it.

    <img src="http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/18/nebulareboot20.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Nebula's just a LITTLE smaller, the bottom base is heightened a bit, and the screws are lowered.
     
  11. steveswede

    steveswede

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    <!--quoteo(post=440937:date=Apr 11 2010, 02:51 PM:name=Sonuw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sonuw @ Apr 11 2010, 02:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440937"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't worry about it.

    <img src="http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/18/nebulareboot20.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Nebula's just a LITTLE smaller, the bottom base is heightened a bit, and the screws are lowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's a lot better. For some creative flare. You could put some kind of Robotnik tattoo on the green area of the Nebula. Or some form of banner. Whatever you think looks best. It just look like an area that could be filled.
     
  12. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    <!--quoteo(post=440937:date=Apr 11 2010, 08:51 AM:name=Sonuw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sonuw @ Apr 11 2010, 08:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440937"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't worry about it.

    <img src="http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/18/nebulareboot20.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Nebula's just a LITTLE smaller, the bottom base is heightened a bit, and the screws are lowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What ever happened to the silver band above the yellow stripe on the bottom portion of the Nebula's shell? Just curious...
     
  13. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Looks much better now, congrats.


    <!--quoteo(post=441018:date=Apr 11 2010, 01:34 PM:name=Hamneggs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamneggs @ Apr 11 2010, 01:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441018"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What ever happened to the silver band above the yellow stripe on the bottom portion of the Nebula's shell? Just curious...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ask the Sonic 2 artists:
    <img src="http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4307/nebulaartwork.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    =P




    <!--quoteo(post=440955:date=Apr 11 2010, 10:40 AM:name=steveswede)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steveswede @ Apr 11 2010, 10:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440955"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For some creative flare. You could put some kind of Robotnik tattoo on the green area of the Nebula. Or some form of banner. Whatever you think looks best. It just look like an area that could be filled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I seriously hope you're either kidding or trolling.
     
  14. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    <!--quoteo(post=441034:date=Apr 11 2010, 12:59 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Apr 11 2010, 12:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441034"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ask the Sonic 2 artists:
    <img src="http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4307/nebulaartwork.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    =P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So then why is the yellow band so thick in the remakes? The Sonic 2 artists said they liked the idea of a thinner yellow band whilst we were talking about this over lunch. They eat a lot!
     
  15. steveswede

    steveswede

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    <!--quoteo(post=441034:date=Apr 11 2010, 06:59 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Apr 11 2010, 06:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441034"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I seriously hope you're either kidding or trolling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Why? I think it's an interesting idea to at least try. If it looks crap, then it's fair enough not to add anything. There is no harm with trying out new things.
     
  16. <!--quoteo(post=441018:date=Apr 11 2010, 01:34 PM:name=Hamneggs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamneggs @ Apr 11 2010, 01:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441018"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=440937:date=Apr 11 2010, 08:51 AM:name=Sonuw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sonuw @ Apr 11 2010, 08:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=440937"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't worry about it.

    <img src="http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/18/nebulareboot20.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Nebula's just a LITTLE smaller, the bottom base is heightened a bit, and the screws are lowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What ever happened to the silver band above the yellow stripe on the bottom portion of the Nebula's shell? Just curious...
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I've always thought the "silver band" was meant to illustrate the volume of the black dome bottom, as it curved in and was highlighted by light, just before the second yellow band pertruded and also had its upper lip curve and was also highlighted in the same manner. That is generally what I've been trying to get across for a while now, when I say that this sprite lacks volume. I have also always said that the circle on the bottom half was meant to be a burst of light, even when others tried to argue it was a light or button or whatnot. I believe this sprite is meant to be reflective like a black marble, and it was made curvey to add highlights from the brilliant blue sky its surrounded by. Currently the sprite is too sharp and lacks finer details and "volume". But I know it's a work in progress.
    Keep it up!

    Anyway, I threw together this as an overly exaggerated example, the yellow is supposed to be light reflection.
    <img src="http://i41.tinypic.com/28jb8us.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
     
  17. zemulii

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    That's what I thought the silver bit was too. Just a way of getting around pixel constraints without losing it's shape completely. Seeing as it's so reflective... shouldn't the shading have a <!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->blueish<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> tint? Being in Shy Chase and all? May as well consider the environment, we're not limited by colour!

    Anyway it's hard to tell whether or not the HD sprite should incorporate these "lips", as while they occur in the sprite, they don't in the official art. I kind of think they'd ruin the look in this particular version but I could be wrong. I'm not so keen on it being too curvy around the edges. Could start to look less like a <I>bad</I>nik, and more like a child's play toy.
     
  18. Cerulean Nights

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    <b>*Badnik Creation Process Guide*</b>

    I thought it would be worthwhile to give you all a little direction on the method that will be used to create ALL of the new Badniks. This guide is not just a suggestion, but is the definitive process and should be followed as close as possible in order to get the best results.

    I will be using the first Badnik I created, the Whisp, as an example throughout the guide, to give you a better understanding of each step.

    <b>1. Main shapes</b>

    This is just a bare-bones design of the body, with little to no shading involved. The point of this step is to get the proportions and perspectives absolutely perfect. You may not move to the next step until this one is completely fulfilled. You will need to consider all of the ways the Badnik will need to be animated, and add that into your design decisions.

    Take a look at the initial Whisp. His shading is done with very few color steps, but you can get the idea of where I was going with it.
    <img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/nights0223/S2HD/whispraster.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Post as many revisions of your Badnik as possible on the forums, you will get invaluable help from the others and there will almost certainly be little things you may have overlooked, that should be fixed as early as possible.

    At this point, the body shapes are perfected, so it is ready to go to the next step. I'll stress this again, do <I>not </I>move on until the shapes and proportions are perfect!


    <b>2. Details and shading</b>

    Now that you have the perfect shapes for you Badnik, it is time to tone it and make it look nice. This is anything from adding in finer details to basic shadings. It is in this step that you will want to make sure you are keeping the same art style we have set for the Badniks. Take a look at the next revision of the Whisp:

    <img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/nights0223/S2HD/whispvectormetal_01.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    You will notice there are many differences. The legs have been slightly modified to fit with the concept art and have metal tones added, the eyes have a glassy-like reflection, shadows have been added, and the all around shading is starting to come together. Once your basic shadings are done, you can move on to more complex details

    <img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/nights0223/S2HD/whispvectormetalsm_01.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Now you will notice things have been taken even further. A hexagon pattern has been added to the eyes, the stripes to the nose, as well as the reflections on his body. Final shadings have also been applied. Have fun with it, but make sure it is still going along with our set art style.

    <img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/nights0223/S2HD/whispvectormetalsm_up.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    The finishing touches have been added, and now that you are absolutely sure that your Badnik is perfected, you can move on to the next step. It is essential that before moving on to the final step, you get a final approval from me or another staff member, otherwise and further time spent on it will be wasted.

    <b>3. Animation</b>

    Now it is time to bring your Badnik to life! At this point the shading will be finalized, so all that is left is to give it the finishing touches to get it ready to be used in game. For the Whisp, there really isn't a lot to animate, but for most badniks, it will take a little bit of work and thinking.

    <img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/nights0223/S2HD/whispvectormetalsmflap3.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    You have seen how Sonic's new running animation is fluid and beautiful. That is the style that we want to see on all Badniks from now on. I will use the Spiker as an example. The drill and his legs are the main things that will need to be animated. Those legs are going to have to move fluidly, and each individual frame of animation on them will have to be shaded to perfection. This includes how the shadows move, and how the light reflections will change according to the position of each leg. It is not something that can be half-baked, we want to make sure people know how much care went in to each and every frame for our Badniks. This goes for all steps, actually.

    Once your Badnik has been approved by the staff, you can pat yourself on the back for a job well done, then get to work on the next one!

    As always, the staff is here to help. If you have a problem with anything, PM me and I will get back to you as soon as I can. The staff has the final say on what goes in the game and what doesn't, so it is highly advised you follow this guide as closely as possible. In the long run you will be glad you did.
     
  19. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    I've linked CN's guide to the OP. His method is the official process we want to see used on every badnik, and he's more than happy to elaborate further if anyone still has questions around it.
     
  20. Volpino

    Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    I know this will probably not be considered since everyone working on the project is very much concerned with quality and recycling can take away quality on some levels, which isn't a bad thing, but anyway...

    ...I was looking at the Spiker because I thought I could help by drawing it, but I realized something.

    You can use the ghora's head and Grounder's drill for the spiker just find with minor edits to the drill to create the spikes. Would that be an idea or has it never been brought up because it recycles an object?
     
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