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Badniks & Bosses

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Canned Karma, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    We haven't given much thought to including a hard mode as of this point. It's not a bad idea by any means. I like the ideas Test-Object put out for them. Keep throwing them up, they'll be good material to work with when we get to the deciding point of what additional should be added in.
     
  2. Andeed

    Andeed

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    In terms of level layout, for a 'Hard Mode' (rather than just bosses), it shouldn't require any extra graphics:
    The levels should be pretty much the same stage layout, since this is not a 'hack' but a remake, however objects could be easily added, moved, or taken away to make play more difficult without changing the feel of the game by having completely new structures.
     
  3. Hamneggs

    Hamneggs

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    The levels should be pretty much the same stage layout, since this is not a 'hack' but a remake, however objects could be easily added, moved, or taken away to make play more difficult without changing the feel of the game by having completely new structures.
    [/quote]

    Perhaps a minimalistic approach of significantly fewer rings and lightposts, and a shorter timer? Or how about just taking out all the shields and invincibility monitors?
     
  4. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    That doesn't make the fight any easier. To be honest, this boss in particular would be difficult to pull off a decent hard mode because of how it comes in from the right and the height. You'll have to really change it up.

    Making Robotnik come in higher than the player is capable of jumping on top of it and a faster refill time might do the trick.

    Or if you want to be a total asshole, make the entire floor have the rotating floor.

    This is a fucking terrible way to do a "Hard Mode". You should add things to make it difficult, not take things away from the player.
     
  5. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    If we do end up including a hard mode, it won't be artificially harder because of nonsense like making enemies take more hits or taking away items. The idea of making the stage more challenging is where the appeal is at. Chimpo's suggestion to have all the floor tiles be rotating tiles is a good example of this. Having the clone bubbles around Robotnik regenerate or move in more than one pattern set at the same time is another concept that interests me.
     
  6. Kirinja

    Kirinja

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    Remove all rings and powerups from every stage. Increase enemies. Harder, no?
    Sure for people that know Sonic 2 inside out it might not be harder, but I think it would be a fun challenge. Not sure how you guys feel about it but I would try it out.

    Edit: Didnt see the other posts. Seems like you are against it, nevermind then.
     
  7. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
    Here is the HTZ boss pattern. In all the other videos, the players destroyed him before he could even do his first attack. How can we fix this? (5:03)

    I suggested a longer invulnerability already, so when you try this, you drop in lava. However, this shit should get tightened up even more. I really want this guy to be Megaman-hard.
     
  8. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    I think it's best to observe the videos where he gets destroyed instantly. So for the sake of analyzing it, here's one of those videos.



    This one, much like the CPZ one, would be tricky to redo for a hard mode. It's already got a huge disadvantage with its entrance. It leaves itself exposed long enough to get blown up within seconds.

    One thing I am completely against is increasing its invulnerability time. This isn't Sonic Rush. If the player manages to find a way to score some multiple hits in, he should be able to get them.
     
  9. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
    Maybe turn his machine into a big Sol? You know, making flames slowly spinning around him and fire them at you, leaving him exposed for a shorter while AND we added an attack not too different.
     
  10. zemulii

    zemulii

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    Maybe his flamethrower thing goes red hot as it "warms up" until it's fired. Then you've got a small space of time to attack. Or maybe his whole machine just comes up out of the lava red hot, and you've got to wait for him to "cool off".
     
  11. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
    I don't like this.

    But I do like this.
     
  12. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    That's an idea I had in mind, but it alone doesn't really increase the difficulty. All it does is just make the fight much slower.

    Perhaps making the machine visually too hot to damage and with a combination of moving around faster might help.
     
  13. Andeed

    Andeed

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    Actually, watching that video, I realise that that's exactly what happens when Robotnik submerges in the lava! Hence the graphics will need to be created anyway and so one platform on each side of the lava could be randomly set alight.

    I love the red hot idea! There should be just enough time as he re-submerges for skilled players to get two hits in, otherwise it would take forever...
     
  14. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
    You're right, my bad, guess I spazzed out. Well, cool-off timer and increased speed it is then.

    The DEZ bosses are quite the opposite of the Hill Top Zone boss. They're so bloody open for difficulty additions, we can do almost anything.


    EDIT: If we should add more badniks for difficulty purposes, shall we use scrapped badniks, and if so, which ones?

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    and the other scrapped Sonic 2 enemies.
     
  15. Gambit

    Gambit

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    Some of those belong to Hidden Palace, so we can't really use those in another zone if we wanted to. I would love to use the bee that can burn bridges in Emerald Hill, but it seems most areas it wouldn't work out too well simply because there's no path below most of the bridges to fall onto, and I don't want shit making massive bottomless pits everywhere. I may still examine putting those in, but I'm not too sure about it right now. I do like the idea of adding the bubbler and its mother back in, but I'd have to see what everyone else says.

    As for the Hill Top boss, we could make him rise out of random sides instead of just right left right left. Could also make it possible for him to rise up different heights and fire at angles, kinda like this.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. test-object

    test-object

    By Torm, no! This is terrible! I... I had no idea Member
    Personally, I would love seeing the crocodile badnik but in Aquatic Ruin. Perhaps I'd also like the snail sticking to the wall that rolls after you in Emerald Hill. EDIT: Oh, and the vulture in Sky Chase.

    Not completely sold on the flamethrower idea, maybe if you could explain it more clearly.
     
  17. Gambit

    Gambit

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    Really just consists of him shooting at you from different angles instead of straight on all the time, and making it more difficult for you to hit him sometimes.
     
  18. Maybe for making zones hareder, the deleted badniks would appear, so that way the normal levels can be the same as always. EHZ was waaaay harder with those Slug badniks on the ground, and Bubbler (and corresponding bubble badniks) would be cool for CPZ. Another example, those jumping fish badniks in ARZ. I'm sure a few original badniks (gasp) could appear in levels too.
     
  19. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Before anything created outside the game is added, and that's a huge if mind you, we'll be exploring any and all other options for using the original, remade assets intelligently. Adding badniks in appropriate locations to prevent players from just flying through a zone like EHZ is a decent example of this, if only because there's a very limited number of ways to make the first level more difficult without doing so artificially.
     
  20. Arcane

    Arcane

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    For Chemical Plant Zone, I would suggest make the boss higher, so Sonic is able to hit him only from the bottom, where the pipe come from. Something like this: [​IMG]
     
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