Badniks & Bosses

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Canned Karma, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. Gambit

    Gambit

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    I already tried doing a 20 frame animation and it still looks funky. I'll prolly just have to rework the spikes somehow.
     
  2. <!--quoteo(post=463339:date=Jun 4 2010, 08:08 PM:name=Gambit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gambit @ Jun 4 2010, 08:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463339"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I already tried doing a 20 frame animation and it still looks funky. I'll prolly just have to rework the spikes somehow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Maybe try colouring the spikes first? I think at the moment it looks like a white silhouette, and it's a little hard to see what's going on - having white-on-white spinning around.

    Just make them a grey colour for now, and I think that'll help.
     
  3. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    I'm pretty sure Gambit is just looking to get it functional so that it can be traced, colored, and shaded in vector.
    I think you need to either line them up the spikes or displace them more to make them seem more random.

    When using the spiral design I look at the placement from the official artwork and then went in and thought about balance of spikes on a 3D level. And it never looked all that uniform because you had to follow the spiral and put the spikes in the middle everytime. With some resizing going toward the top it made it seem almost random.

    I don't know if it should be random though. I'd assume its supposed to be similar to a conch shell (pretty random by nature). But since its clearly made of metal and likely manufactured in some factory it could just be uniform.

    Either way, you need to pick a side because right now the spike/shell looks confused.
     
  4. Gambit

    Gambit

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    Yeah, that's pretty much it. Then I can have it ready if we decide to use it.
     
  5. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Perhaps you could try re-making the same shape MaximusDM made? I like your spike shape and deeper engraved lines better, but I think Maximus nailed the spike positioning and the engraved <I>spiral </I>shape. I mean, it would only make sense to make it look spiral since both the seashells and the drills it's based on feature that shape. The lines going different ways in the original sprite were in there just so it wouldn't look so odd when flipping the sprite, as seen in the official artwork.



    <!--quoteo(post=462011:date=Jun 1 2010, 11:51 AM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jun 1 2010, 11:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462011"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's see the results!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sure, <I>please </I>do show us an example of a 3D render succesfully turned a vector-based animation without losing its fluidity. I'd love to be proven that manually converting them is really worth it, seriously.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Still waiting for those results. We need to compare an original animated render with its vectorized result to see if it's really possible to make it animate fluidly enough, and if the difference is big enough to be worth the hard work and loss of time.
     
  6. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    <img src="http://i47.tinypic.com/wwnmeb.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    I put more emphasis on the groove channels of the drill and lowered the angle of the spikes a bit. Being 3D, changes are easily made of course. When I get back from work tonight I'll render out a full sequence to set up an animation. I'm thinking 12 frames @ 24fps for the motion test of it.
     
  7. steveswede

    steveswede

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    <img src="http://i47.tinypic.com/wwnmeb.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Sexy. Look forward to the animated one. The groove at the bottom bothers me a bit. I think it would look better if the groove down there could gradually blend in with the surface.
     
  8. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    This one looks like it has the best of both versions. Very nice.
     
  9. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    Alright then, here's the animation:

    <img src="http://i48.tinypic.com/a5huzo.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    This one may actually need 16 frames, if not more, and a bit more tweaking on the timing to come out smoothly.
     
  10. MaximusDM

    MaximusDM

    Sonic 2HD - Concept Artist Member
    I really like the pattern and flow of it in the animation. I don't know how well you thought it out or it just worked itself out, but it is really awesome. I do think it can go slightly faster than that.
    But looking at it outside of the pattern, I don't like the spikes and how they all angle up to what appears to be a perfect horizontal line. Starting to angle them upwards could break your already awesome pattern. I don't really know. I'm not saying copy mine.

    But mine had spikes angling more upward gradually as it got higher. However this might make a wave effect, when in an animation with would be very distracting visually. But again, I'm not even sure of that, but it would be something you would want to stay away from. To clarify, the animatilon you have now is a semi-subtle wave (very awesome) But I would stay away from in your face waves with different sizes or angles to create a wave that is obnoxiously obvious.
     
  11. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    The spike wave pattern was intentional. I couldn't come up with a 'random' placement of the spikes that read well visually when animated. I considered angling the spikes more like you did, but we've already seen an example that you so generously provided us with, and I wanted to display another option to give variety to the mix. I probably wouldn't have done this one had you not posted yours honestly; the 'wrinkling' at the edges of the grooves in yours was driving me nuts ;)
     
  12. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    The only thing I would do is take that animation and reverse the order of the frames, so that the spiral grooves give the illusion they're moving downwards. Currently they give the illusion of moving upwards, which could look a bit strange when the cone itself is *actually* moving upwards in-game.

    Other than that, I love it - the spike positioning and groove placement all look fantastic. Should be a solid base proportion and placement-wise for a finished version. = )
     
  13. <!--quoteo(post=463912:date=Jun 6 2010, 12:19 PM:name=McAleeCh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McAleeCh @ Jun 6 2010, 12:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463912"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only thing I would do is take that animation and reverse the order of the frames, so that the spiral grooves give the illusion they're moving downwards. Currently they give the illusion of moving upwards, which could look a bit strange when the cone itself is *actually* moving upwards in-game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But if you look at the direction of the grooves, you can tell it's drilling upwards. ;)
     
  14. steveswede

    steveswede

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    <!--quoteo(post=463940:date=Jun 6 2010, 02:45 PM:name=Meph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Meph @ Jun 6 2010, 02:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463940"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=463912:date=Jun 6 2010, 12:19 PM:name=McAleeCh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McAleeCh @ Jun 6 2010, 12:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463912"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only thing I would do is take that animation and reverse the order of the frames, so that the spiral grooves give the illusion they're moving downwards. Currently they give the illusion of moving upwards, which could look a bit strange when the cone itself is *actually* moving upwards in-game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But if you look at the direction of the grooves, you can tell it's drilling upwards. ;)
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The point McAleeCh is making is that the drill is in reverse. The whole point of those groves in a drill bit is to transport the grinded dust out so you can drill deeper. So the spiral effect should always look as if it's going down from the tip.
     
  15. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Yeah, that sounds right.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz_JIM8Iv_g" target="_blank">Here's an example</a>, notice how the drill goes downwards while the groves go the opposite way.
     
  16. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    <img src="http://imgur.com/qoQMB.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Timing changed from 100ms frame delay to 90ms.
     
  17. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    Ah, perfect - now that that animation gripe has been fixed, it's looking very saucy. = ) Excellent work! I think we may have a winner here, folks!

    Now all we need is a nice metallic-looking version that sits well with the hand-drawn badnik art. Any ideas as to how this might be accomplished? = S I know some people were suggesting vector art using this render as a base - is it worth looking into purely 3D options too, or would it be too difficult to get it to mesh well with the vector-art elements?
     
  18. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=464026:date=Jun 6 2010, 03:57 PM:name=McAleeCh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McAleeCh @ Jun 6 2010, 03:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=464026"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ah, perfect - now that that animation gripe has been fixed, it's looking very saucy. = ) Excellent work! I think we may have a winner here, folks!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Hold on there, trigger. Both the bottom and top ends of the groove need to be fixed so they don't end so abruptly.
     
  19. I do like it, but I sure did like the look of the spikes which angled upwards also.
     
  20. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

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    So far the method I'm using to cut the groove channels into the geometry of the cone isn't liking having the spiral extend beyond the cone to make the bottom part of the channel flush with the cone's bottom. I'll post up a single render if I find a good workaround for it. As for the suggestion of having it shaded like metal, I've done some experimenting around that. Part of the art direction we've set up is to have metal reflections show sharp divisions between where the light hits and where the standard shading for the surface color is. That's been the key clash on all the 3D models so far. 3Ds Max has an option to set a number of divisions in its toon shader, so I may import the model to that program and play around with it to see how things turn out there. For reference, I've been using a composite of constant shader base plus ambient occlusion and a blinn shader overlaid in Photoshop to create what you've seen so far.

    MDM, have you done any more tweaking to your version?
     
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