Badniks & Bosses Art

Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Vincent, Apr 24, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. synchronizer

    synchronizer

    Member
    1,940
    5
    18
    ...the perspective kind of messes with my eyes though. Isn't an HD remake SUPPOSED to pay attention to detail? Perspective issues are bad to have in drawings, despite how "cool" it looks. At least that is what I think.
     
  2. Blanche Hodapp

    Blanche Hodapp

    *urp* Eternal Queen
    <!--quoteo(post=321735:date=Jun 20 2009, 11:29 PM:name=Elratauru)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Elratauru @ Jun 20 2009, 11:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321735">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->CK said the same about the perspective, but the perspective is ok<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sorry, but I really don't think it is. If you don't want the cylinder to look flat, then it should have the same downward curve at the bottom than the top, I would suppose, but having it curve down at the top yet up at the bottom makes it look like it was rendered by a seven year old.

    I don't mean to sound harsh, but you've done such a good job on the rest of the design that you stand to ruin it with that one element.

    And what's wrong with using shading to imply three dimensions on a flat image, anyway? That's what the rest of the art is doing.
     
  3. Elratauru

    Elratauru

    Little Shiny Emurralds Member
    [​IMG]

    You guys don't even know how hard is to edit something that is finished to me...
     
  4. DragonsTrap

    DragonsTrap

    AP:100 DP:55 CP:56 Member
    24
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=321753:date=Jun 21 2009, 07:16 AM:name=Elratauru)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Elratauru @ Jun 21 2009, 07:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321753">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys don't even know how hard is to edit something that is finished to me...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The whole point of these forums is to get feedback, isn't that why you posted to begin with? Everyone is being picky, but that's because everyone here wants it to be perfect. You are obviously talented at vector art, but the perspective problems really ruin an otherwise perfect work. Perspective is not something I consider to be minor, it stands out as a negative much more than fine details stand out as positives.

    The cylinder looks better the way it is now .. the curve is still wrong. It's going in the wrong direction. It is also bit steep considering the straight horizontal lines on the egg-o-matic, but it is definitely a lot better than it was before.

    The second problem is that the perspectives of the cylinder needs to match the perspective of the glass which is at the same height. The glass is from a "straight on" perspective, which clashes with the cylinder.
    EDIT: I think the perspective of the glass is actually fine, it's the cylinder that should be made to match the glass.

    The lighting on the base of the glass isn't too much of an issue, especially since the ooze is glowing. I just thought the dark shading on the right should be complemented with some similar shading on the bottom of the base.
     
  5. DragonsTrap

    DragonsTrap

    AP:100 DP:55 CP:56 Member
    24
    0
    0
    here's what I mean, described with a picture of a cylinder in 3D perspective for example.
    EDIT: This is not how art for Sonic 2 should be done though as it uses parallel perspective as Master Emerald mentions below.
    [​IMG]

    Since we are viewing the screen from far back, then there should probably be virtually NO CURVATURE AT ALL.

    If ANYTHING, it should be in the other direction. Since your line of sight is in line with the egg-o-matic, then there should be curvature for anything above the egg in the UPWARD direction (not downward as you have drawn it).
     
  6. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    This is my suggestion about how to fix the perspective:

    [​IMG]

    And no, Sonic 2 doesn't use 3D perspective as shown:

    [​IMG]

    It uses paralell perspective so it looks like this (as CPZ black cilynders on BG!):

    [​IMG]
     
  7. DragonsTrap

    DragonsTrap

    AP:100 DP:55 CP:56 Member
    24
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=321763:date=Jun 21 2009, 07:56 AM:name=Master Emerald)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Emerald @ Jun 21 2009, 07:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321763">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And no, Sonic 2 doesn't use 3D perspective as shown:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo(post=321762:date=Jun 21 2009, 07:55 AM:name=DragonsTrap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DragonsTrap @ Jun 21 2009, 07:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321762">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since we are viewing the screen from far back, then there should probably be virtually NO CURVATURE AT ALL.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree. My picture was for perspective in general, since there seems to be some misunderstanding concerning it for the cylinder (where perspective is backwards). I do actually agree that there should be no perspective as you mention.
     
  8. Elratauru

    Elratauru

    Little Shiny Emurralds Member
    <!--quoteo(post=321759:date=Jun 20 2009, 08:28 PM:name=DragonsTrap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DragonsTrap @ Jun 20 2009, 08:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321759">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because everyone here wants it to be perfect. You are obviously talented at vector art, but the perspective problems really ruin an otherwise perfect work.

    The lighting on the base of the glass isn't too much of an issue, especially since the ooze is glowing. I just thought the dark shading on the right should be complemented with some similar shading on the bottom of the base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ...Actually, Im not a vector artist xD...this is all raster, I work in 5000 x 5000 at 300dpi however xD

    oh, about the glass, lets wait for that thing, first, is the perspective as Its the damn error here... so, I need to redraw the whole pump...after that...I fix the other things, I got time for that, since we didnt even start CPZ so, don't worry that much xD

    <!--quoteo(post=321762:date=Jun 20 2009, 08:55 PM:name=DragonsTrap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DragonsTrap @ Jun 20 2009, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321762">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since we are viewing the screen from far back, then there should probably be virtually NO CURVATURE AT ALL.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Actually that's what Im gonna do.
     
  9. DragonsTrap

    DragonsTrap

    AP:100 DP:55 CP:56 Member
    24
    0
    0
    [​IMG]

    Here's my WIP for the ShellCracker badnik.
    I have made each side of the image with varying legs on purpose - so I can get your opinion on which is better.

    The left side shows the crab with an additional leg (crabs have 8 legs.. 6 of which are usually for walking, with the rear set often being smaller and more like fins for swimming). This way, I'm assuming the rear leg is too small to be seen. I tried having all 8 legs visible but it just looked like a mess.

    I've gone away from the concept art and I've made the area under the 'teeth' to be like a layered inlet.. which I think matches the original sprite a lot more anyway.

    Comments?
     
  10. Canned Karma

    Canned Karma

    S2HD Project Manager Member
    806
    0
    0
    Sonic 2 HD, various 3D work
    I believe this is what Tweaker and a few others have pointed out as relying far too much on gradients when doing remasters. The current WIP is definitely a step in the right direction, but mainly because of the additional details like the screws that were put in. I know it can be a tedious process, but using basic color steps at first, and overlaying them on the original, is probably the best way to go about this. Vincent has put up multiple tutorials to that end. Once you've got the basic steps in place, then coming back and increasing the number of shades will produce a much better remaster. The current shading on it still feels very flat over all. Check out <a href="http://sanik.hacking-cult.org/inker/inking.php?section=Badniks&entity=Balkiry&inking=1243299725" target="_blank">Philosoraptor's recent Balkiry</a> for inspiration, as he absolutely nailed the style we're looking for in S2HD.
     
  11. DragonsTrap

    DragonsTrap

    AP:100 DP:55 CP:56 Member
    24
    0
    0
    Thanks for the feedback, I'll post my next update with a shading scheme more similar to the Balkiry. It probably won't be too much work, because I already have layed out numerous shapes from which I then built up the gradients from. I'll try to get that done before moving on to the claw / chain etc.
     
  12. DragonsTrap

    DragonsTrap

    AP:100 DP:55 CP:56 Member
    24
    0
    0
    attempt at different shading style. EDIT : unnecessarily large image removed, see post below
     
  13. Gambit

    Gambit

    Sonic 2 HD Staff - Level Artist Member
    711
    0
    0
    Sonic 2 HD
    Something you might want to do is post the images at exactly 4x resolution. If it's zoomed in any farther we can see all the color steps and whatnot. It's not always a bad thing to see where one color ends and another begins, but it looks better if you show it off at the exact size it's meant to be. Aside from that, I'm too tired to come up with anything else. Perhaps El can give you some ideas later.
     
  14. DragonsTrap

    DragonsTrap

    AP:100 DP:55 CP:56 Member
    24
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=321827:date=Jun 21 2009, 02:39 PM:name=Gambit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gambit @ Jun 21 2009, 02:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321827">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Something you might want to do is post the images at exactly 4x resolution. If it's zoomed in any farther we can see all the color steps and whatnot. It's not always a bad thing to see where one color ends and another begins, but it looks better if you show it off at the exact size it's meant to be. Aside from that, I'm too tired to come up with anything else. Perhaps El can give you some ideas later.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    okay.
    [​IMG]
    I just made a quick change after posting this image.. the furthest leg was not touching the floor - this is now fixed.
     
  15. Gambit

    Gambit

    Sonic 2 HD Staff - Level Artist Member
    711
    0
    0
    Sonic 2 HD
    <!--quoteo(post=321829:date=Jun 21 2009, 01:45 AM:name=DragonsTrap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DragonsTrap @ Jun 21 2009, 01:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321829">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=321827:date=Jun 21 2009, 02:39 PM:name=Gambit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gambit @ Jun 21 2009, 02:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321827">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Something you might want to do is post the images at exactly 4x resolution. If it's zoomed in any farther we can see all the color steps and whatnot. It's not always a bad thing to see where one color ends and another begins, but it looks better if you show it off at the exact size it's meant to be. Aside from that, I'm too tired to come up with anything else. Perhaps El can give you some ideas later.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    okay.
    [​IMG]
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Much better. Yeah, posting stuff big like that is fine to show people how you made something, but it shouldn't be what you do to show something off. Unless there's something really cool that you did, of course. :P
     
  16. Elratauru

    Elratauru

    Little Shiny Emurralds Member
    <!--quoteo(post=321827:date=Jun 21 2009, 03:39 AM:name=Gambit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gambit @ Jun 21 2009, 03:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321827">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Something you might want to do is post the images at exactly 4x resolution. If it's zoomed in any farther we can see all the color steps and whatnot. It's not always a bad thing to see where one color ends and another begins, but it looks better if you show it off at the exact size it's meant to be. Aside from that, I'm too tired to come up with anything else. Perhaps El can give you some ideas later.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Actually...

    I would add some contrast, glow on the legs, and some little shade on the red part...

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    Having distinct light shapes on the metal, does not help at all (the part in the center).
     
  18. Overlord

    Overlord

    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
    18,314
    409
    63
    Berkshire, England
    Learning Cymraeg
    As a sidenote, I love the glowing effect you've put into the Mega Mack for that boss art. Very nice =P
     
  19. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=321895:date=Jun 21 2009, 12:34 PM:name=Overlord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Overlord @ Jun 21 2009, 12:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321895">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As a sidenote, I love the glowing effect you've put into the Mega Mack for that boss art. Very nice =P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I thought the pink stuff was the Mega Mack.
     
  20. Overlord

    Overlord

    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
    18,314
    409
    63
    Berkshire, England
    Learning Cymraeg
    The stuff he's sucking up from the liquid Sonic's been swimming around in, yes =P
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.