Archie Sonic Comic Megathread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Dark Sonic, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. Dan Genesis

    Dan Genesis

    As it was predicted. Plus, this is like some cute Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=571849:date=Mar 23 2011, 11:40 AM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Mar 23 2011, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=571849">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=571815:date=Mar 23 2011, 12:14 PM:name=Enzo Aquarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enzo Aquarius @ Mar 23 2011, 12:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=571815">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They have to, it's the alternate reality, so there has to be alternate characters for each character. It's like the alternate reality stories in Star Trek, where every character is shown to have an alternate ego (even Vic Fontaine, a holosuite character). To keep with the alternate reality theme, it is only natural that alternate egos would have to be made for each character.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    But how is this any different than what they've done in the past? It isn't. The comic has had so many alternate reality stories, they're just adding more wood to the fire.

    I guess it's just Archie's way of doing what everyone else is doing and playing it safe. Nega is just more of an excuse to keep doing it.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The only alternate universes that are in any way consistent are Moebius, Blaze's Dimension, and the No Zone. All the others that have appeared were simple one-offs, really.

    And there's even one that's completely dead - Cyborg Sonic's Dimension - pretty much only Robo-Robotnik (Eggman in the comics today) remains of that universe, and now wreaks havoc on Mobious Prime because Robotnik Prime bit it.
     
  2. The KKM

    The KKM

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    <!--quoteo(post=573674:date=Mar 29 2011, 08:45 AM:name=Dan Genesis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dan Genesis @ Mar 29 2011, 08:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=573674">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->because Robotnik Prime bit it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    More like "was ahnihilated out of existance". Otherwise, there'd be no problem with Sonic winning :P

    Anyways, some of you may know that Ian has taken writing commissions; pay him and he'll do fan fics, comic scripts, etc. Artist <a href="http://catbeecache.deviantart.com/" target="_blank">Deebs</a> asked him two fanfics about Finitevus, and they're quite a good read.

    <a href="http://fav.me/d39b01x" target="_blank">"Shadow from an Emerald Star"</a> is a semi-official story detailing Finitevus' backstory, his life as an Albion scientist and his beginnings as a villain. I name it semi-official because it was written by the main writer of the comics and doesn't contradict anything, but it's obviously fan-fiction, so take it for what it is. I personally have to problem picturing it as Finitevus' backstory in the comics, though.

    <a href="http://fav.me/d3cbxie" target="_blank">"World Peace"</a> is a "What-If" scenario, showing what would happen if Finitevus' plan of turning Knuckles into Enerjak and cleansing Mobius with him would work. Interesting story.

    The two stories combined allow for a magnificent understanding of the character and how he works. Good job on Deebs' part on getting Ian to do this.
     
  3. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Pay someone to write you a fanfic, wow. :/
     
  4. The KKM

    The KKM

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    Why not? It's like paying an official comic artist to draw. And seeing it's not that pricey, it's a good deal. :/
     
  5. Herm the Germ

    Herm the Germ

    Hmm, not bad. Well done, doctor! Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=573674:date=Mar 29 2011, 09:45 AM:name=Dan Genesis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dan Genesis @ Mar 29 2011, 09:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=573674">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=571849:date=Mar 23 2011, 11:40 AM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ Mar 23 2011, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=571849">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=571815:date=Mar 23 2011, 12:14 PM:name=Enzo Aquarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enzo Aquarius @ Mar 23 2011, 12:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=571815">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They have to, it's the alternate reality, so there has to be alternate characters for each character. It's like the alternate reality stories in Star Trek, where every character is shown to have an alternate ego (even Vic Fontaine, a holosuite character). To keep with the alternate reality theme, it is only natural that alternate egos would have to be made for each character.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    But how is this any different than what they've done in the past? It isn't. The comic has had so many alternate reality stories, they're just adding more wood to the fire.

    I guess it's just Archie's way of doing what everyone else is doing and playing it safe. Nega is just more of an excuse to keep doing it.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The only alternate universes that are in any way consistent are Moebius, Blaze's Dimension, and the No Zone. All the others that have appeared were simple one-offs, really.

    And there's even one that's completely dead - Cyborg Sonic's Dimension - pretty much only Robo-Robotnik (Eggman in the comics today) remains of that universe, and now wreaks havoc on Mobious Prime because Robotnik Prime bit it.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Don't forget Mobius: X Years Later. :v:
    And technically, Sonic Underground is part of that multiverse, too… And, as Sonic X issue 40 has shown, that one, too. :B
     
  6. Lanzer

    Lanzer

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    Ah the wonders of the multiverse! TMNT has to deal with the same thing.
     
  7. <!--quoteo(post=573691:date=Mar 29 2011, 03:15 AM:name=The KKM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The KKM @ Mar 29 2011, 03:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=573691">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why not? It's like paying an official comic artist to draw. And seeing it's not that pricey, it's a good deal. :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wow, World Peace is pretty awesome. At first it kinda reminded me of DBZ a bit, what with Enerjak going around killing the Z-Figh- I mean, Freedom Fighters. At least Locke didn't die of cancer before this all started.

    Shadow from an Emerald Star is pretty good as well. Ian's a great writer when he isn't bound to Archie.
     
  8. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    <!--quoteo(post=573687:date=Mar 29 2011, 06:04 AM:name=The KKM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The KKM @ Mar 29 2011, 06:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=573687">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://fav.me/d3cbxie" target="_blank">"World Peace"</a> is a "What-If" scenario, showing what would happen if Finitevus' plan of turning Knuckles into Enerjak and cleansing Mobius with him would work. Interesting story.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This thing was amazing. Now I understand how fragged up in the head Finitevus truly is.
     
  9. Dan Genesis

    Dan Genesis

    As it was predicted. Plus, this is like some cute Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=573703:date=Mar 29 2011, 06:30 AM:name=Herm the Germ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Herm the Germ @ Mar 29 2011, 06:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=573703">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't forget Mobius: X Years Later. :v:
    And technically, Sonic Underground is part of that multiverse, too… And, as Sonic X issue 40 has shown, that one, too. :B<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ah, yes, I forgot about Mobious:XYL and Sonic X. And Sonic Underground was one of those simple one-offs I mentioned (has it ever appeared outside that one issue?)
     
  10. The KKM

    The KKM

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    To be honest, in terms of understanding Finitevus I found Shadow of an Emerald Star to be better, if only because it shows so perfectly the change and evolution of the character pre- and post- Chaos Syphoning Knuckles.
     
  11. Herm the Germ

    Herm the Germ

    Hmm, not bad. Well done, doctor! Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=573886:date=Mar 30 2011, 12:52 AM:name=Dan Genesis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dan Genesis @ Mar 30 2011, 12:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=573886">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ah, yes, I forgot about Mobious:XYL and Sonic X. And Sonic Underground was one of those simple one-offs I mentioned (has it ever appeared outside that one issue?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, as a TV show, though, granted, it can be debated whether that's the same universe or not. Then again, the last page of the Sonic X comic implied to take place in the TV show. :v
     
  12. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    <!--quoteo(post=573896:date=Mar 29 2011, 04:42 PM:name=Herm the Germ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Herm the Germ @ Mar 29 2011, 04:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=573896">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=573886:date=Mar 30 2011, 12:52 AM:name=Dan Genesis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dan Genesis @ Mar 30 2011, 12:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=573886">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ah, yes, I forgot about Mobious:XYL and Sonic X. And Sonic Underground was one of those simple one-offs I mentioned (has it ever appeared outside that one issue?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, as a TV show, though, granted, it can be debated whether that's the same universe or not. Then again, the last page of the Sonic X comic implied to take place in the TV show. :v
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The Sonic X comics take place between episodes. As for Sonic Underground, the same rules would apply but Underground has never been seen again outside that one issue.
     
  13. Twinbee MkII

    Twinbee MkII

    Uber Snuzzlemuffins Member
    Well I for one am really enjoying where Ian has taken the comic. Considering how large a Scourge fan I am, seeing him get his own arc coming up in Sonic Universe makes me giddy. Here's to hoping Ian can further flesh him out and make him all the more different from his true blue counterpart <3
     
  14. Lanzer

    Lanzer

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    Penders speaks:
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now that some of the facts are starting to come to light via recent filings with the court, and are being posted elsewhere, I can discuss some issues to clarify what is already known.

    So far, all Archie Comics has produced are copies of documents allegedly bearing my signature, not any actual documents themselves. In addition, nowhere in the documents are the words "SEGA" and SONIC THE HEDGEHOG" (or "KNUCKLES THE ECHIDNA", "PRINCESS SALLY" or anything else SEGA-related) mentioned anywhere on any of the pages. They have also not submitted any statements to the court from anyone actually working at the company during the 1990's who could verify any first-hand knowledge of the documents themselves. They have submitted a list of freelancers they claim to have contracts on file with, but nowhere on the list are names I've submitted as potential witnesses for my side.

    Mike Pellerito did submit a declaration to the court, which my attorneys demonstrated in a filing that virtually everything he said was inadmissible heresay at best, as he started working for the company in 2000, and wasn't the SONIC editor until late 2003/early 2004, well after the events in question. Mike filed statements which were demonstrably incorrect (regarding Elliot S! Maggin) or second-hand knowledge based on office gossip (regarding Scott Shaw!). To give some idea of the inaccuracies filed with the court, I offer the following from court documents available online, specifically in this case Statement 11 from Mike Pellerito's declaration:

    11. Elliot Maggin is a well known former writer for DC Comics, and identified as a witness to testify about “standard industry practices… ” Maggin has no relation whatsoever to ACP, or Penders'association with ACP. It seems inappropriate for this Court to base a decision on whether to transfer this case on the location of Penders'possible expert witnesses, who have absolutely no factual connection to this case.

    Note the part "Maggin has no relation whatsoever to ACP". I now offer the following exhibit:
    [​IMG]

    You'll notice the name ELLIOT S! MAGGIN in bold white lettering at the top of the comic. He was commissioned by Scott Fulop to write the lead story for this issue, based on Elliot's experience writing SUPERMAN for DC Comics over 17 years. Elliot was not provided with nor did he ever sign a work-for-hire contract for this story. He therefore owns the copyright for this story, not Archie.

    Furthermore, Elliot - as he states in his declaration to the court on my behalf - was also my editor at no less than three separate companies, where I submitted work at all three companies prior to any association I had with Archie. At all three companies, he issued me contracts for each and every single assignment prior to my beginning work on each of them. Such arrangements were standard at every company that ever published my work, whether it was Marvel, DC, Malibu, Now, Disney or anywhere else. In other words, Archie is the only company I ever submitted work to in which I was not supplied contracts for each and every assignment. Furthermore, each contract spelled out exactly what I supplying and all other necessary details, totally unlike the documents Archie supplied to the court claiming I had signed.

    So, no connection to Archie? No connection to the facts of this case? Really?

    Then there's Mike's statements concerning Scott Shaw! with the following:

    9. Scott Shaw was an independent contractor for ACP in the early 90's. ACP ceased doing business with Mr. Shaw when he failed to deliver work product in a timely manner. That was more than 15 years ago.

    First, how would Mike know? He wasn't there when Scott submitted work to Archie, so he can't testify first hand exactly why Scott and Archie no longer do business. That doesn't stop him, however, from casting aspersions on Scott's professional reputation. It wouldn't suit the Archie narrative that reasons why Scott and Archie don't currently do business include Scott's strong stand in support of Dan DeCarlo or the fact that Scott has never once been paid for any of his work that has been reprinted numerous times in various formats.

    From Scott's declaration can be found the following:

    4. Unlike my experience with every other publisher I've submitted work to, I never received any contract or other agreement between Archie, Sega and myself.

    As well as this:

    13. I also never received any contract from Archie to the work I was hired to do by Victor Gorelick.

    The last two items he states should be of particular interest to SONIC fans:

    16. I am currently in the process of registering my ownership of all of the materials mentioned in this declaration.

    17. I have never had any professional or social interaction with Michael Pellerito and consider his remarks about my reliability to be unfounded and extremely injurious to my professional reputation.

    So, yes, in answer to everyone's questions, that means Scott owns his work seen in the original SONIC mini-series, not Archie or SEGA.

    Anyone doing their homework will discover there has to be a written transfer for each work created, which means Archie has to have something from the writers or artists in writing for each and every story in order to apply for the copyrights, which they would in turn transfer to SEGA under written agreement. That this has never happened is not the fault of the writers or artists, but with Archie. There is no after-the-fact retroactivity.

    Anyone stating that SEGA automatically owns anything and everything published in the comics clearly doesn't understand how copyright laws work.

    Ian's statements that his plans regarding Hershey and the upcoming reboot are disingenuous at best as my lawyers and I had been anticipating such moves as we got further along the process. As more facts come to light, it will become clear the reboot storyline is the only way for Archie to continue the series without incurring any further potential legal jeopardy should they lose their case.

    This also explains to a certain extent why the SONIC ENCYCLOPEDIA has yet to hit the shelves as well. As one of Ian's friends recently stated online, SEGA has gotten more involved with the comic than ever before, and with good reason.

    I would like to stipulate that Ian is not in the loop as much as people think, as least not as far as the legal situation between Archie and I are concerned. He may indeed have made plans, but events possibly forced his hand sooner rather than later, and he certainly can't talk about it without risking the wrath of Archie executives.

    Likewise, when Ian talks about his contract with Archie, he is speaking from the perspective of someone who hasn't the same level of experience in the comics industry that I had prior to my experience working on SONIC. All Ian knows is what he's experienced working for Archie on the SONIC books. He has yet to experience life working on a Marvel or DC title, for example. (And if he has, I'm unaware of it.)

    It's quite possible as a result of my suit against Archie, Ian will learn Archie doesn't own the rights to his work as airtight as they would claim or he believes. And if Archie doesn't, what position would Ian take? He doesn't own the work? Archie can just keep reprinting his stories without paying him? At his age, he may not care. When he gets to be my age, he may have serious second thoughts at that time.

    One of the settlement options my attorneys submitted to Archie was for them to license my work for a fee and pay a royalty for reprints. To date, Archie has rejected all my overtures to discuss the situation in a rational manner without the necessity of a lawsuit. Their response has been nothing more than to claim they outright own my work, that I should acknowledge their ownership and sign over my copyrights without any future benefit of payment or credit, pulling the trigger on a lawsuit before it needed to be.

    Ian probably hasn't given the matter thought because his work hasn't been reprinted as yet. However, when it is, unless Archie has already told him he will receive royalties - and good for him if that's the case - it's quite likely he's going to feel different when it happens to him. As for the creators whose work has been reprinted without Archie paying them royalties, I already know how they feel. And Archie knows it's more than just me who isn't happy with their actions.

    Everything I've discussed is well known between both sides. Anything more can't be discussed because neither side has no idea at the moment which way the pendulum will swing, as well as what the next moves will be as a result.

    As I've stated previously, this is not something I entered into lightly or without much thought. No sane person would proceed any further unless they had the necessary documentation, evidence and witnesses to support their position.

    A couple of quick comments to finish on:

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if he didn't want SEGA using his concepts, he shouldn't have put them in a SEGA-licensed product in the first place<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I do have a response for this, but it'll have to wait until the proper time. You may agree with it, you may not, but it is an honest, legitimate response from my perspective.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe Ken will ultimately emerge triumphant after all and get the rights to the characters he made. Then we might be able to see some official Brotherhood stories.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Because of how everything has been progressing, I've been waiting for the right moment to officially announce the first releases. The one thing I am certain is that even without the SEGA elements, fans will embrace what they see as part of the official canon, even if it contradicts what Ian is doing, for the simple reason that whatever I do will be faithful to what has come before, if not finally outright resolve many of the questions people have asked me over the years.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
     
  15. David The Lurker

    David The Lurker

    For some mysterious reason... Administrator
    Elliot S! Maggin and Scott Shaw! are going to be witnesses on Ken Penders' side of things? Well that's...something. Look, I'm all for Ken getting royalties for reprints of his work. That should have been something set up in the first place. It's just...everything else that bothers me. Ken, look. I know you're not reading this even though I'm addressing you, but...just let the Sonic comic go. You wrote for it for over a decade, yes. You grew an attachment to the characters, fine. We all have an attachment to the Sonic characters in some form or another, else we wouldn't be on this message board. But you were writing glorified fanfiction. Fanfiction you got paid for. Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Sally, Bunnie, Rotor, Antoine...those were never your characters. I don't care how many more you "came up with," but they really only mattered because they were in a Sonic the Hedgehog comic book. No one would have cared about "The Brotherhood" if you didn't have Knuckles and Angel Island and the Master Emerald hiding out in the back. People read that stuff for Knuckles, not for his father/grandfather/great-grandfather/great-great-grandfather.

    I'm not sure what he's referring to with the whole Hershey thing (unless its simply a case of "she's not on screen because of a special assignment oh look Geoffry St. John is being a dick and she's his wife oh well" kind of thing) but all those characters he may or may not have come up with were just supporting characters in a comic about a blue hedgehog. What kind of a market would Ken even have for a comic that featured all of these characters but none of the principle ones? And this hatred for Ian Flynn that just seems to ooze out of everywhere...Ken, you had that job for years. Archie fired you, not Ian. I know you will claim to not hold any particular grudges against Ian, but to go out of your way and say that if you were to get back the comic, you'd simply ignore everything he had done? That's just silly. You've worked with the big guns before, Ken. Look at Superman. Look at Spider-Man. They've had thousands of issues dedicated to them, written by a multitude of creators. They didn't own these characters, and they were lucky if anything they came up with were to stick around for more than their particular run. How many stories have been retconed, rewritten, or outright ignored?

    The fact that Ian took everything you did and kept it is phenomenal. He could have stepped in and changed a lot more than he did. But he didn't. For some reason, he decided to respect your entire body of work. Even though a lot of it, especially at the end, was incredibly poor, he decided to work around it. Build up from it. Make things progress in a couple issues that would have taken you over two years. See, that's the problem. Ken, you were too wrapped up in the Soap Opera aspects of the characters. You were writing about a video game character, which is primarily focused on action. You control the character. You make it do things. You don't sit there and read what is going on in his mind about his love life for thirty minutes. We want to see Sonic running around, fighting Eggman, maybe save someone and then act like a bit of a dick. That's who he is. Sure, you have more layers to it. But if you add too much, or stretch it out, or dedicate multiple issues to Sonic the Hedgehog being in school or dealing with Station Square politics or decide you want the 200th issue of a comic book to be about Antoine and Bunnie getting married after showing their engagement for the previous 25 issues...yeah. Glad that didn't happen, Ken.

    You should only be fighting on getting royalties, Ken. Not for the characters themselves. You barely understood the principle cast in the early days...and you certainly didn't get them later on. I know you wanted to make "season 3" and in a sense you did. But after issue 50...your heard didn't seem in it anymore? Like you blew your load and then didn't know how to clean up your mess. At least with all the hatred that Endgame generated, people could tell you were putting your all into it. Not so much later on. Focus on your other ideas, or try and come up with something new. I know, not exactly an easy thing. Maybe you and Scott Shaw! can do something! I'm sure he'd keep you grounded. Maybe add a bit of levity to a situation.
     
  16. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    <!--quoteo(post=574918:date=Apr 2 2011, 12:16 AM:name=David The Lurker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (David The Lurker @ Apr 2 2011, 12:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=574918">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure what he's referring to with the whole Hershey thing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Supposedly Ian is gonna killer her off, like Ian has been doing with tons of Ken's stuff</span>
     
  17. A giant reboot just to do that? Highly doubtful. Even if the reboot is temporary, it'll probably be just to give a glimpse into the comics had Penders not had his way with them.
     
  18. Trunks

    Trunks

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    I hope it's not a reboot. :|
     
  19. Mr. Pictures

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    <!--quoteo(post=573688:date=Mar 29 2011, 05:09 AM:name=JaxTH)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JaxTH @ Mar 29 2011, 05:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=573688">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pay someone to write you a fanfic, wow. :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Desperate times call for desperate measures I guess.
     
  20. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

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    How much does he charge for fanfic commissions? Because I think I'd actually pay to have him write "Sonic and Charles Barkley vs Space Dracula"