Another Bioware Sonic game?

...well, apart from that cliffhanger that needs addressing. :\

I really liked Chronicles. This may be due to the fact that I am a man with no aesthetic sense whatsoever, so I didn't get ticked off by the music or the flash videos. Best Sonic writing there's ever been in a game (which isn't saying much, but still...), and unlike Blue Emerald I liked the fact that Sonic started off fighting giant bees rather than just robots - adds a bit of variety and fantastical-ness back into his increasingly, excessively realistic-ised world.

What I think Chronicles 2 needs is to be more like an RPG. Chronicles TDB was like baby's first RPG: laughably short; railroad-plot; minimal sidequests; no real opportunity for character or party customisation; and a combat stats system that never even gets explained, much less exploited.

Still don't think they're ever going to make said sequal though.

 

I would have liked Chronicles if it wasn't for that damned turn-based combat.

I don't know how any games with turn-based combat are popular. It's just so...boring. That's why I prefer Action RPGs where you actually have to fight, rather than just pick a move and let all the characters hit each other repeatedly until death.

 

See previous Bumbleking post: http://www.bumbleking.com/forum/viewtopic....sc&start=30

 

Good lord, man, why did you have to remind me of Mike Adamle? I spent a good amount of time trying to block that from my memory.

Also, if SC2 happens by some form of divinity, the least Sega can do is hire someone like Tweaker to do music for the game. At least ears won't explode blood everywhere from poorly resampled midis. (Wise ass post in 3...2...)

Of course, even if it is third-party filler music, if the soundtrack were to sound like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpe2a2VtA6c

...that'd be quite lovely. Not like the DS can't do audio at that level, anyway.

 

So, wait, Green Hill was supposed to sound like that? That's a fucking thousand times better than what we actually got. I hate that soundtrack.

Going out on a limb here, but it seems like SEGA's/BioWare's legal problems had to do with wanting to adapt the actual original tunes and sound effects from the Genesis games, but not getting them finalized because A) BioWare did not want to have to pay royalties or something for them at the last minute, or ever; or B) SEGA did not want to have to pay royalties or something for them at the last minute. Given that SEGA as a company is more or less established as a fucking cheapskate, perhaps that's all it took for Chronicles to have been more than half-way decent: For SEGA to pay DCT or something for using the tunes and sounds. That would explain why most all of the sound effects sound like shit, never mind the soundtrack.

That's just me going out on a limb, though. Feel free to hack it off if I'm dead wrong. What does this have to do with Chronicles 2 coming out? Well, maybe a lot, or nothing at all. Either way, Sonic Chronicles was released as a cheap-quality handheld RPG with few redeeming qualities and little appeal, and it was SEGA's property. Would they really be willing to rectify their shitty start with a much better game? Who knows. Maybe if they get some serious windfall from the three new (four) new Sonic games coming out this Christmas, plus Valkyria Chronicles 2, Vanquish, and Phantasy Star Online 2 among others. Even if they did, few people will be interested in it, because the first one was only about half-decent.

 

Even as someone with aesthetic sense I still managed to enjoy it, partly because of what they did with Knuckles. It was nice to see him not be the raging, gullible, and hammy comic relief for a change. He even + - didn't fall for Ix's "we're really the good guys" speech   .

I'd still like the story to get some closure...just please, give us better-than-fangame quality audiovisual presentation all around next time.

 

^this. I was so happy that Knuckles became a major part of the game, and his moves are just as cool. However, the "LULZ ANOTHER CLAN" thing... not so much

One thing that bothered the hell out of me... Vector made a cameo appearance as a "secret aganet" for GUN. soooooooooo why the fuck was there no Chaotix in this game?

 

Meh, I personally found him less appealing, they just went for the other extreme and made him a brooding serious guy with no comical flaws (One could argue it fitted the situation better, but even then his emotions weren't exactly plausible, he doesn't have much of a reaction to dooming the Nocturnus to the Twilight Cage in the end for example), I like Knuckles when developed right as he is this perfect mix of both serious and comical 'not so above it all' traits. That makes for a more complex and multi faceted character to me.

That was a recurring problem to me, Chronicles still heavily derailed or Flanderized characters, just with different directions or traits than what Sonic Team usually does.

 

I've seen this point raised many times in the last two years, and can only maintain one again that it simply isn't the case. Chronicles had top-notch multifaceted characterisation. You (not you specificly Psi - I mean nay-sayers in general) just can't see it because you're too busy raeging about how everyone isn't playing their dum-dum Sonic X roles with enough wooden cliche-spouting.

• We've got Shade, a srs bsnss military girl with an undercurrent of Blaze-style isolationism and clan-betrayl guilt festering away under the surface;
• Knuckles, obsessed with the ME like his job description reads, but holding on to a little of that S3 antagonism even if it hurts his case, rather than just following Sonic around like a chump;
• Tails, not just the walking toolbox but also an excitable little kid, blatantly happy to have Sonic back but at the same time gaining a pro-Eggman independence that the hedgehog really doesn't like;
• Eggman, grandiloquent self-aggrandizer and kow-tow-ing 'reformist', at once a comic pants-teleporter while at the same time a complete psychopath unable to even consider the use of non-lethal force;
• ...and Sonic himself, who plays however the fuck you want because you're in charge of his dialogue!

So it doesn't lurch from one extreme to the other. This is just factually untrue.

 

<!--quoteo(post=507328:date=Sep 17 2010, 10:41 PM:name=::CMG (UTOPIA):--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (::CMG (UTOPIA):: @ Sep 17 2010, 10:41 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing that bothered the hell out of me... Vector made a cameo appearance as a "secret aganet" for GUN. soooooooooo why the fuck was there no Chaotix in this game? [/QUOTE]

Because they suck?

The game had a full enough menagerie of halfway decent characters in it. I don't see why it also needed a gruff yet goofy alligator "detective" with headphones teamed up with a hyperactive toddler bee and a stereotyped-ninja chameleon. What, Team Jubilee wasn't enough? Personally I liked the Chaotix better when they were in Knuckles' Chaotix, in which they were primitive, Vector spinned by biting the end of his tail in cartoony fashion, and Espio actually changed colors like a chameleon. It's a small detail, but it carries far more appeal than being a stereotyped ninja. Also they had Mighty standing in for Sonic, so points for not using Sonic in a game that no one would play because it was on the 32X I guess. At least they didn't make him another hedgehog and wear out the concept.

The game was halfway decent at best. You think the Chaotix would've changed that? If anything it would've made them look worse.

 

wow... in that case, how can I argue with that logic :specialed: [/sarcasm]

1. u mad bro?

2. Their personality didnt suck untill ShTH (specially Vector), otherwise, it was to be expected that they got a "drastic" change, since everyone else post SA got a change as well (mostly appearance wise). Yea I too am pissed off that Charmy is younger and immature, but I'm not that butt-hurt about it to the point that I wish he was banned from existance (that rage is saved for OTHER useless characters )

3. who the hell is Team Jubilee?

Go tell that to the many other Mighty The Armadillo fans that would LOVE to see him have his own comeback, and see if they will agree with you on that Mighty was there from the beginning, in fact, if it wasn't for the hedgehog idea, we would be debating about "Mighty The Armadillo 4" instead. PLUS, him, and Ray were in an "arcade only" game together with sonic, which makes ray and mighty the equivilant of tails & knuckles (ray can fly... I think, and Mighty... well obviously his talent is in his NAME).

That's just YOUR oppinion. If Bio-Ware didnt rush the game, they could have found some way to make the chaotix look good... like have them team up with knuckles as a nostalgia treat for the few people (including myself) that actually loved Knuckles Chaotix.

 

<!--quoteo(post=507355:date=Sep 18 2010, 05:13 AM:name=::CMG (UTOPIA):--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (::CMG (UTOPIA):: @ Sep 18 2010, 05:13 AM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. who the hell is Team Jubilee?[/QUOTE]
I'll field this one. Team Jubilee is the name Sonic Advance 3 gives to the partnership when you play as Amy & Cream (or Cream & Amy).
On a related note, the Chronicles codex mistakenly calls the Sonic Heroes trio of Amy, Cream, and Big "Team Amy" rather than "Team Rose". This is the single indisputable error I found in the entire codex (yes, I was checking).

 

<!--quoteo(post=507355:date=Sep 18 2010, 12:13 AM:name=::CMG (UTOPIA):--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (::CMG (UTOPIA):: @ Sep 18 2010, 12:13 AM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Their personality didnt suck untill ShTH (specially Vector), otherwise, it was to be expected that they got a "drastic" change, since everyone else post SA got a change as well (mostly appearance wise). Yea I too am pissed off that Charmy is younger and immature, but I'm not that butt-hurt about it to the point that I wish he was banned from existance (that rage is saved for OTHER useless characters )[/QUOTE]

Vector's personality hit the shitter when I pressed the third attack button in Sonic Heroes and saw him spitting out music notes while growling like the goddamned Batman. Why should I give much more than a damn about him? And Espio might as well be Shadow's shadow.

Charmy's Charmy. I can't really think of anything to say about him other than he's a hyperactive 6-year-old bumblebee. I never said that was bad, but I still think the team sucks. Maybe if they released an episodic point-and-click game where they solve wildly improbable criminal plots and beat up indiscriminately on suspects and badguys, they'd be way more worth a damn.

<!--quoteo(post=507355:date=Sep 18 2010, 12:13 AM:name=::CMG (UTOPIA):--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (::CMG (UTOPIA):: @ Sep 18 2010, 12:13 AM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Go tell that to the many other Mighty The Armadillo fans that would LOVE to see him have his own comeback, and see if they will agree with you on that [/QUOTE]

Who gives a damn? Anyways, you're not even making any sense. I'm saying I liked the Chaotix back in Knuckles' Chaotix in spite of the game's circumstantial failure, and Mighty is a positive footnote to that preference if only for the fact that Sonic didn't have his face slapped onto another failed game for another failed system. Besides, I doubt they'd be able to debate that fact about the 32X.

<!--quoteo(post=507355:date=Sep 18 2010, 12:13 AM:name=::CMG (UTOPIA):--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (::CMG (UTOPIA):: @ Sep 18 2010, 12:13 AM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mighty was there from the beginning, in fact, if it wasn't for the hedgehog idea, we would be debating about "Mighty The Armadillo 4" instead. PLUS, him, and Ray were in an "arcade only" game together with sonic, which makes ray and mighty the equivilant of tails & knuckles (ray can fly... I think, and Mighty... well obviously his talent is in his NAME).[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm well aware of all of that, but you don't seem to be making a counterpoint to mine.

<!--quoteo(post=507355:date=Sep 18 2010, 12:13 AM:name=::CMG (UTOPIA):--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (::CMG (UTOPIA):: @ Sep 18 2010, 12:13 AM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

That's just YOUR oppinion. If Bio-Ware didnt rush the game, they could have found some way to make the chaotix look good... like have them team up with knuckles as a nostalgia treat for the few people (including myself) that actually loved Knuckles Chaotix.
[/QUOTE]

You're right, that would've totally saved the game. It didn't need better music, better graphics, better writing, or even remotely better RPG gameplay. Absolutely not. It needed yet more throwaway characters. That's looking at the big picture.

It doesn't matter how many more characters they can find the time to cram into the narrative. What does matter is what they do with the over 10 or so characters in their already. I'm not impressed by Chronicles. I see potential in it, but that's not the same as playing an enjoyable game. SEGA should focus on centralizing Sonic's development into limited internal and 3rd-party development teams, because they can't seem to be bothered with simultaneous quality management over several development studios or hiring competent teams to make decent games for the brand.

I'm not sure why I bother. This is a franchise for kids, so SEGA's content to make it dumbed down enough for kids, which is condescending in itself, but it's not like I'm expected to put up with it. I just find myself fascinated with how great the games used to be and how great they could've been. I think it would've been thrilling to have had a Sonic RPG with the calibur and craft of Super Mario RPG. I still think it'd be thrilling to have a game like that, or like the current Mario & Luigi RPGs.

 

I didn't think Chronicles was half bad, honestly. I certainly wouldn't consider playing it ever again, but I don't regret downloading it. I'm totally game for a sequel- Bioware's the sort of company that knows how to learn from its mistakes, and there's nowhere to go but up from where they left off.

 

The story as I heard it was that if a a media outlet reviews a Bioware game poorly, Bioware tries to get them to have someone else do the review, and if they don't do is/don't give a positive review, that outlet no longer receives press copies.

 

What if a Japanese team made a Sonic RPG?

 

Given the miserable state JRPGs are in right now? I'd rather no RPGs happen at all.

 

Media portrayals like the games and Sonic X have the problem of leaning too much to one character trait and making the characters one note, though I still find this on par or better than Chronicles that either did the same but occasionally with different traits or didn't even do that and diluted the whole personality of a character into a generic shell. There's a difference between balancing one trait with many different ones to make them multi faceted or diluting it so they have none at all.

* Shade, how can I put this, Shade- was- DULL. She's the same generic stoic anti hero they now put in every goddamn title since SA2. The nearest to a real distinct personality was as stated Blaze like traits (who herself can be rather bland and drearingly flawless at times). The guilt was somewhat tainted by the fact that, like other anti heroes, it only even vaguely perked when she realised a change in her mission plan. She was completely indifferent or outright arrogant acting to Ix's invasion plans or even his brutal and torturous execution attempt of Sonic and Knuckles straight before hand. Only after finding out she was duped does she suddenly become shocked at learning his immoral qualities and insist she won't do immoral actions, despite the guy being a very blatant cardboard 'for the evulz' monster throughout the whole thing. This didn't really make her seem sympathetic and misled, more two faced or just outright dumb.
* Him playing Sonic's sidekick was a bad idea, but even then he at least had character traits that made him sympathetic (sure a bad tempered 'butt monkey' isn't great but it's something), as said giving a good backstory and setup means nothing if the character has no unique traits or mannerisms. Knuckles was like Shade just a stoic serious guy this time around, even his dialogue emotes had the same stoic expression (rather surprising given they're based on the much more expressive Sonic X design).
* Tails' 'happiness' to see Sonic was handled in the dullest most diluted manner possible, eg. a generic 'nice to see you again'. The problem again is the character no longer has unique mannerism or quirks outside being smart. I actually found him rather grating in this story. Modern Tails has always been dull to me though at least he was in the background so didn't bug me as much, in Chronicles he was an outright Wesley directing Sonic through everything and handing dues ex machina's back and forth. His treatment of Eggman may have made him seem a little naive but still not really enough to have a gripping personality. Tails needs to have flaws and setbacks in his intellegence again, he needs to be a child then maybe he'll be able to form unique chemistry too.
* Eggman I admit was good, but then Eggman has always been an amusing character in the games and even Sonic X the only problem was really setting him up as a competant villain. Chronicles only did such in the final moments and even then he only took over because nearly all of the heroes were absent for so long.
* It's hard to really say anything for Sonic since as you say there was no real consistant character. You picked it. Then again this idea wasn't really done to it's full potential. Even if you talk nasty to someone they use the same pleasant dialogue to you later on, your choices have no permanent effect on interaction outside possibly that one conversation with Amy.
* Amy was similarly diluted, to the point she's just a generic character outside the occasional kissy talk to Sonic. While her chemistry with other characters was always a bit limited, she was at least a universally ditzy and abrasive character. Now it's evolved to the point she needs Sonic to display any vague amount of personality.
* Any others were just generic tagalongs or one gags similar or worse than what Sonic Team uses.

Perhaps my opinion is skewed because I compliment the Sonic X 'clitche spouting' in that it at least suits the cartoony atmsphere the franchise has. When I see candy colored cartoon anthros like Sonic I see whimsical cartoony personas, maybe not wacky and obnoxious all the time and capable of serious or emotional moments but still with exagerrative and broadened characterizations that befit a cartoon universe. Without this sort of whimsy the characters just come off as kinda dull and 'everyman-ish'.

 

Sure, but is SEGA? I guess Colors and Sonic 4 should be such indications, but then neither have been released yet.

You first.